I'm not worried we wont challenge for the title.....i'm worried we wont make top 4!

[pacifictheme]

I don't think Kendall's death was such a big deal for Everton players. I bet some of them don't even have a clue who he is. They're not very good anyway.

But yeah, we've been mostly shite this season.

True, but goodison is usually very loud when we go to play there. It was dead that day and i think that, more than the death, is what affected them.

 

[Godfather]

We won't make top 4 with LvG he's lost the players.

We won't make it regardless of the manager with that bunch of players I fear

 

[Jippy]

Lose against Chelsea and we'll most likely be six points off the top four with virtually all of the top teams, barring Arse, still to play in the second half of the season. It's looking pretty bleak.

 

[Charlie Foley]

We are 1 goal ahead of Watford

 

[LazyRed-Ninja]

In the space of 4-6 weeks we went from top spot and a good run in the CL, to 4th place out of the CL and now fighting to stay near 4th. Football, bloody hell.

 

[bosnian_red]

If we bring in Mourinho next week then I think we'll make top 4 pretty comfortably. We can't keep sitting with van Gaal and hoping he'll turn it around. He hasn't and this run has reached 15 games or so now.

 

[NoLogo]

Despite Liverpool being super inconsistent they somehow closed the gap on us to 2 points. We have really been shocking these last two months. The board needs to take action now so we can turn this clusterfeck around.

 

[Ixion]

If I was to put money on it I'd say we won't make top 4. We'd need to play like a completely different team for the second half of the season.

 

[Leftback99]

We've got less points than Moyes had at this point. I'd be surprised if we get top 4 now.

 

[Crossie]

I'm not sure I agree with that, TBH. You do need quality players to compete but Leicester is showing the top-budgeted clubs a thing or two this year about how cash does not substitute for cohesion, organization, and effort. You would think City at this point would be winning everything but they don't because they're not exactly the best-orchestrated team on certain weeks. We've spend a fortune this summer and it's really meant nothing. It's how you fit players into the team and maximize their talents.

Pretty much this. It would be helpful if any manager who'll take over from LvG would adapt his philosophy to the players available and build up from there.

 

[Antisocial]

We don't deserve top 4, so the players will essentially get what they deserve next season when they're lining-up on a Thursday somewhere in Europe against a team they've never heard of.

 

[Darwin09]

The most " i told you so" thread ever.

Yes and I'm jumping on the "I told you so" bandwagon as I supported the OP who was barraged by others accusing him of negativity.

I'm not worried we wont challenge for the title.....i'm worried we wont make top 4!

This season's transfer business was a debacle. It just shifted the squad's problems from one line to another. LvG proved adept at steadying the ship last season but the summer showed us that his arrogance and ruthlessness in shipping out any remnants of his predecessors was more of a vanity project rather than an intelligent way to build the squad for the future.

Those of us who saw this coming are not negative people by nature, perhaps we've just seen enough football to know that you don't get rid of players like RvP, AdM, Chicharito, Falcao, and Nani, to name a few, and base a title-challenging squad around one 29-year old striker.

 

[untitled_6899]

We haven't won in something like 36 days and during that time haven't really looked like winning anyway

You cannot carry on going this long and not win especially as teams around us pick up points - a drastic change is needed if we have any chance of getting a top 4 place though I suspect we've fallen too far behind already

 

[BringNaniBack]

Wow, just noticed this thread that I created months ago and was slated for has come back up. Some of the issues I posted about originally have changed but some are still the same and I still have the same worries that we wont make top 4. We have to change something right now otherwise it will be another season where we miss out on champions league spots. Get Jose in asap.

 

[shabadu84]

We've got less points than Moyes had at this point. I'd be surprised if we get top 4 now.

IIRC it all went to shit with Moyes in the Jan-Feb period. Top 4 is certainly doable over an entire half a season, though it will take a seismic change in the players' attitudes

 

[endless_wheelies]

Another 2 points down on Tottenham.

 

[Devil may care]

We don't look like we could score in a brothel with Bill Gates credit card and our manager is a clueless loon, we need to pray Leicester implode and Liverpool continue to be erratic.

 

[Anduin]

We're not making top 4 under Van Gaal. We need to go to Stamford Bridge, Anfield, Etihad, White Hart Lane, and we can't score to save our lives. We're already five behind Spurs after - on paper - a very easy run of fixtures. We might beat Swansea, but after that it's Newcastle and Liverpool away which will most likely end with 0 points again.

 

[KingMinger22]

I dare to think how detrimental to our progress not making the top 4 would be.

The number of positions that we need to add top quality players in is daunting. Without CL money and draw, it will be absolutely insurmountable.

The financial numbers involved in making this team competitive again are frightening. A good defender will run £40-50m easy this summer. Let alone a world class striker, wingers, midfielder. I don't know it can be done.

 

[Red Dreams]

we are 9 points off the top half way through. Its Arsenal though. The concern is this fraud is still in charge. Is he really going to oversee the Jan purchases?

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

We're very fortunate to be 9 points off the top, and to be fair it's catch-able. This transfer window is huge though if we're sticking with LVG.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

we are 9 points off the top half way through. Its Arsenal though. The concern is this fraud is still in charge. Is he really going to oversee the Jan purchases?

You'd better believe it, what do we think is time? sell Herrera, loan Schneiderlin, extend Rooney's contract, whilst bringing in another keeper and recalling Blackett? You just wouldn't put anything past him.....amazing what a 0-0 result can do for you.

 

[Winrar]

sad to say it, but this season is effectively a write off if we don't replace van gaal soon. there's 0 progress being made this season so far under him and I doubt that will change as van gaal is stubborn as a mule.

in other words, this season is effectively a write off.

 

[SalfordRed1960]

sad to say it, but this season is effectively a write off if we don't replace van gaal soon. there's 0 progress being made this season so far under him and I doubt that will change as van gaal is stubborn as a mule.

in other words, this season is effectively a write off.

If you ignore LVG, as I think it clouds to many judgments, when you look at the team that played last night, with the view we may strengthen in January, are you really so pessimistic. The first 11 is pretty good, definitely top 4 material, and not far off a title challenge. It shouldn't be lost on people that prior to the injuries to the defense and midfield, we were pretty close to the top. I am sure the response will be boring football, no attacking threat, blah blah, but there was enough evidence last night to see that our fit first team isn't that bad. A couple more games for the likes of schmidfield to gain their fitness, Rooney starting to get his effort back, Martial continuing to develop, Blind and Smalling as the CBs, Herrera staying in the team, it bodes well for me.

I still fancy City and Arsenal to take top the two spots, by a small margin, and I would say United are probably going to fight Spurs for 3rd. Be interesting how Spurs react to a couple of bad results. The others including Leicester will fall away gradually. Will the Scousers put in a late challenge, maybe, but I don't think they will have the same result vs. City and Chelsea as they did earlier.

 

[WyoManU]

I am content with top 10. As long as we are top 10 I am happy.

 

[surf]

To get top 4 we have to finish ahead of two from Leicester, Spurs and the red scousers. The only good news is that the chavs have been a no show this season.

Won't be easy with van Gaal's low scoring methods. He needs to do something big in the transfer window to add goals.

 

[bucky]

60 points at the end of the season, if we keep this up. Last year Southampton had 60 points and were in 7th.

 

[Red Dreams]

the only hope we have of finishing in the top 4 is we have a drastic change in how we play football. I don't trust van Gaal's integrity one bit. Fergie (it certainly looks like it anyways) will have to step in and through Giggs change how we play. van Gaal can be a figurehead if teh Glazers want that.

 

[dwd]

Weren't we about 9 points off the top around this time during the season with Moyes in charge. I'm not hopeful of finishing in the top 6 to be honest. Anything above that would be a big surprise.

 

[ghagua]

Forget the top 4, when are we going to win another game? With LvG in charge, we'll be lucky if we finish in the top 8.

 

[Spock]

Incredibly, I'm still not worried about missing out on the top four -- even if LVG remains in charge through the end of the season.

We've just endured the worst run of form in the club's history since 1961 and we're still only 9 points off the league leader and 5 points off fourth place. For a bit of perspective, in 2012 City were 8 points behind us with something like 6-8 matches remaining in the season.

Fortunes can turn quickly. We have half a season left. There is definitely a point of no return to CL qualification but nowhere near it yet. But we need to start winning soon.

The league champion, as most of us predicted back in August, will be either City or Arsenal. I don't think any of us thought United were quiet there yet, though hope was not absurd. We were always competing for the third place finish (sad statement of how far we've fallen, I know) and as I look at our main threats for those two spots -- Leicester City, Tottenham and Palace -- we simply have a deeper squad than they do.

The obvious rebuttal is that our manager deploys deplorable tactics and we thus lose matches we should win. But it's really not the tactics that are the problem but the woeful finishing. Fine, one might say, we have woeful finishers and we're at risking of a fifth place final finish.

Agreed. In January we need to add a scorer, as it can't all fall on Martial. If we can add a quality finisher we'll have enough to finish in the top four, which is all we can realistically hope for now.

And...if we enjoy a bit of luck and go on a solid run and can take points off City and Arsenal, who knows?

As grim as we've been of late, we're still in the hunt and probably a pretty safe bet for a top four finish.

 

[sunama]

We've just endured the worst run of form in the club's history since 1961 and we're still only 9 points off the league leader and 5 points off fourth place.

Using basic mathematics, by the end of the season, we will be 18 points behind the leaders and 10 points off 4th place.

 

[Spock]

Using basic mathematics, by the end of the season, we will be 18 points behind the leaders and 10 points off 4th place.

You're absolutely right. If we continue to go winless for the rest of the season we'll have no chance of landing that fourth spot.

My assumption is that our run of horrifying poor form, apparently our worst since 1961, will end.

We're on 30 points after 19 games. Baseline another 30 points from our remaining 19 games? Yep, I think so.

If we can assume 2.0 PPG for our remaining 19 games, that's 38 points, which takes us to 68 points. 70 points got us a comfortable 4th place finish last season. But can we hit a 2.0 PPG clip over 19 games? That's tough to say, but inside that "38 point run" over those 19 games we would have take 3 points each off Leicester City and Tottenham, our own two serious rivals for the fourth spot. I dismiss Palace, West Ham and Watford as contenders.

We have a heavy lift ahead of us, but fourth place is actually doable. League trophy? We pissed that away over the last three weeks.

 

[Devil may care]

Putting aside how angry I am with how the club is being run right now, I just cannot see where the goals are going to come from to get us up the table with some wins.

 

[Winrar]

If you ignore LVG, as I think it clouds to many judgments, when you look at the team that played last night, with the view we may strengthen in January, are you really so pessimistic. The first 11 is pretty good, definitely top 4 material, and not far off a title challenge. It shouldn't be lost on people that prior to the injuries to the defense and midfield, we were pretty close to the top. I am sure the response will be boring football, no attacking threat, blah blah, but there was enough evidence last night to see that our fit first team isn't that bad. A couple more games for the likes of schmidfield to gain their fitness, Rooney starting to get his effort back, Martial continuing to develop, Blind and Smalling as the CBs, Herrera staying in the team, it bodes well for me.

I still fancy City and Arsenal to take top the two spots, by a small margin, and I would say United are probably going to fight Spurs for 3rd. Be interesting how Spurs react to a couple of bad results. The others including Leicester will fall away gradually. Will the Scousers put in a late challenge, maybe, but I don't think they will have the same result vs. City and Chelsea as they did earlier.

how can you ignore LVG? he's our manager. it's also hard to not be pessimistic when we've just gone 8 games without a win, losing 4 in a row.

 

[SalfordRed1960]

how can you ignore LVG? he's our manager. it's also hard to not be pessimistic when we've just gone 8 games without a win, losing 4 in a row.

You can ignore LVG because he was given no credit for the uplift last night, he apparently,if you believe caftards, let the players show what they can do. He has obviously seen the light and the players are going to continue from that performance.

In all seriousness, we lost 3 PL games during an injury crisis, not through any change of approach. Those injuries have subsided and we now have the first team again. The losses naturally hit the confidence of certain players. In other game, a draw away to Leicester in their current form isn't too bad, as City showed tonight, and the other draw with WHU was a tad disappointing, but we faired better than the other top teams who met them at home and lost.

I am not trying to make excuses, but it is the 3 losses that have pissed people off the most as we were in a good position. I don't see any reason why our performances won't improve now the main players are back.

 

[Devil may care]

5 points off the top 4, level with Liverpool and only 1 point ahead of Stoke in 10th.

 

[Winrar]

You can ignore LVG because he was given no credit for the uplift last night, he apparently,if you believe caftards, let the players show what they can do. He has obviously seen the light and the players are going to continue from that performance.

In all seriousness, we lost 3 PL games during an injury crisis, not through any change of approach. Those injuries have subsided and we now have the first team again. The losses naturally hit the confidence of certain players. In other game, a draw away to Leicester in their current form isn't too bad, as City showed tonight, and the other draw with WHU was a tad disappointing, but we faired better than the other top teams who met them at home and lost.

I am not trying to make excuses, but it is the 3 losses that have pissed people off the most as we were in a good position. I don't see any reason why our performances won't improve now the main players are back.

let's see where things go on from here. I really am hoping my pessimism is proven wrong at the end of the season, and I hope that things improve at this club but there are very few causes for optimism other than blind hope that things just magically click together. even before the terrible run we're having right now we had trouble scoring goals.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Genuinely worried now. The issue is how much ahead Leicester and Spurs are, and the fact that they're playing better football too. And now Liverpool have crept us as well.

 

[Crossie]

I'm aware that there's a lot of skepticism towards football analytics but some nerdy Caf users might be interested in the table projection model by Michael Caley based on statistics of the current season. More details on his methodology can be found here: http://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnatio...ier-league-projections-and-new-expected-goals

This is his top 4 projection from yesterday night:

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