I'm sure the majority of us knew it would be tricky after SAF retired....

[RetroStu]

But how many fans feared it would be as bad as it has been, and how many thought all these years later post SAF, we would be as bad as we are now?.

I mean taking into account how big we are, the fanbase, the deals, the sheer money generated, should we really of dropped as much as we have post SAF?. Was he really 'That damn good' that its going to take us a decade to recover?.

I think all the last few years have proven to us is just how good SAF really was, if we ever needed any 'proof'.

 

[charlenefan]

At the time I fully expected a title challenge under Moyes, I mean we were league champions, had RVP up front, Carrick in midfield, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra and De Gea in the back 5 I mean why would there be such a drop off?

In hindsight though 12 months after Fergie left 3 of that aforementioned back 5 left (would they have stayed had SAF still been in charge? We'll never know), RVP was also evidently on borrowed time (again would things have been different had SAF stayed? Again we'll never know). What we do know though is post Fergie what have Hernandez, Welbeck, Evans, Cleverley, Nani and the likes gone on to do? Play for mid table clubs that's what. And then you have the likes of Valencia, Young, Smalling and Jones who it's quite mental are still at the club when they weren't even of the standard back then

Fergie left an ageing poor squad, that's the harsh truth of the situation but he was so good he got a tune out of them regardless

 

[AshRK]

I didn't expect it to be this bad. I realized Moyes was a wrong appointment but thought we would be fine. It was one of the most poorly planned retirement.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

I was firmly against Moyes but even in my most pessimistic state I never imagined we wouldn’t make it to the top four.
Not a single person expected this to be this bad, as a matter of fact, taking all into account, we couldn’t have done a worse job and made worse decisions even if we tried.

Our only luck is that we’re so rich, any other situation, the clowns in the suits could’ve gotten us relegated.

Utter tripe.

 

[RetroStu]

I was firmly against Moyes but even in my most pessimistic state I never imagined we wouldn’t make it to the top four.
Not a single person expected this to be this bad, as a matter of fact, taking all into account, we couldn’t have done a worse job and made worse decisions even if we tried.

Our only luck is that we’re so rich, any other situation, the clowns in the suits could’ve gotten us relegated.

Utter tripe.

It actually makes me shudder a bit when you look at how much money we have spent post SAF, then look at how bad our squad currently is. I also dont think we could of done a worse job than we have post SAF.

 

[SirAF]

I didn’t think Moyes would win the league but I was certain of remaining in the top four.

 

[redshaw]

I was thinking top 4 for Moyes with a squad that just won the league by 11 points and scoring 86 goals but at the same time deep down I knew the club being run by someone like Fergie for 26 years there would be a huge chasm left and probably a long transition.

Fergie's time actually breached 4 decades from the 80s to the 2010s.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

It actually makes me shudder a bit when you look at how much money we have spent post SAF, then look at how bad our squad currently is. I also dont think we could of done a worse job than we have post SAF.

It is a colossal waste of money, heart shattering stuff.

 

[Tom Cato]

Honestly I have no problems struggling a bit. It will feel that much nicer when we move forward again.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

Honestly I have no problems struggling a bit. It will feel that much nicer when we move forward again.

It looks like the higher ups feel the same.

 

[2 man midfield]

His genius papered over the cracks but we’d been declining since 2009. The 2011 title win was a slog, and the 2013 win was RvP and Carrick dragging us through. The remnants of the ‘08 team were still there and declining year on year, and we simply never replaced them. This became abundantly clear when SAF retired and mere mortals were forced to try and get a tune out of Tom Cleverley and Johnny Evans.

 

[kkj25]

What we do know though is post Fergie what have Hernandez, Welbeck, Evans, Cleverley, Nani and the likes gone on to do? Play for mid table clubs that's what. And then you have the likes of Valencia, Young, Smalling and Jones who it's quite mental are still at the club when they weren't even of the standard back then

I would say that SAF did not require all his players to be at an elite level but of the right mentality, or the desire to play for him and the willingness to play the way he wanted to play. Which is pretty much what we all keep going on about when we want the club to go back to what it was. SAF requirements were completely contrary to buying the best or even really good players, If you had the right attitude was always the main requirement for him(he made exceptions) but generally it was always about mentality than ability. Which is why even if those players were not good enough for other managers they were plenty for the GOAT.

 

[momo83]

But how many fans feared it would be as bad as it has been, and how many thought all these years later post SAF, we would be as bad as we are now?.

I mean taking into account how big we are, the fanbase, the deals, the sheer money generated, should we really of dropped as much as we have post SAF?. Was he really 'That damn good' that its going to take us a decade to recover?.

I think all the last few years have proven to us is just how good SAF really was, if we ever needed any 'proof'.

If we hired Klopp straight after SAF, we’d have won a title or two or three by now.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Moyes appointment was the catalyst. We could have got a much better manager than him and came 2nd or 3rd and I feel we'd have been fine.

But no we went for someone who had never won a bean. Why? Absolutely ridiculous decision. Should have been the very best available.

 

[el3mel]

I honestly though it will be 2 or 3 rough odd years maximum. Of course turned out far worse than I expected.

 

[TrustInOle]

If we hired Klopp straight after SAF, we’d have won a title or two or three by now.

Hate to say it but have to agree on this, the blame here is surely in Woodward's hands. Bloody Disney land......

 

[predator]

I thought it'd be bad because I thought the club would have remained frugile in the transfer market following SAFs departure but nope we've spent a shit loads, broke transfer records, set wage records and have somehow failed completely.

 

[Offside]

Still hasn’t got as bad/long as Arsenal are experiencing or as it got for Liverpool. Even Chelsea have finished lower in the last 5 years than we have in the last 30. Spurs are on a trophy drought we couldn’t even imagine. It’s bad but we are spoilt.

 

[izec]

Everyone expected a few bumpy years, but unfortunately we have appointed the wrong managers time and time again. After van Gaal, i thought we would finally go for a progressive manager and build on that, appointing Jose was the downfall and wrong move after hiring van Gaal (the right move after Moyes). It is deserved, our rivals are great, but irrespective of that, we are completely shit where it matters the most, on and off the pitch (football wise). It will take just as much time if we start making the right decisions to be back on top again, but i have zero confidence in the guys leading the club and the coaching staff as well as the players being longer here.

 

[TrustInOle]

I honestly though it will be 2 or 3 rough odd years maximum. Of course turned out far worse than I expected.

I feel hiring Moyes, the debacle of a transfer window and not appointing a football brain to work for the long term vision of our club, is what caused this spiral. Woodward seeems a good money man, but has no knowledge on how a football club should be ran, and needed help put in place the minute he got the job.

6 years down the line, and every fan can see this yet nothing has changed, except maybe a better strategy this transfer window. Hopefully we are realising our errors.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

No one expected this. Even the most delusional ABUs didn't expect this let alone fans.

Getting the right manager in is the most important thing which we have failed at. Ole and Moyes appointments have been colossal feck ups. LVG and Jose were correct appointments but not one after another due to the difference in style. We have been slightly unlucky as well. Getting Depay over Firmino, Miki over Mane were correct calls at the time but just did not work out. I think only Rojo, Matic, BFS and Mata were daft transfers. Rest made sense at the time. The complete lack of coaching at the club just baffles me. No player improves at all. A championship winger seems more intelligently coached than all our attackers. What the hell is going on?

 

[Sweet Square]

Still hasn’t got as bad/long as Arsenal are experiencing or as it got for Liverpool. Even Chelsea have finished lower in the last 5 years than we have in the last 30. Spurs are on a trophy drought we couldn’t even imagine. It’s bad but we are spoilt.

This.

It really hasn't been that awful.

 

[Mr angry]

Pretty much a repeat of what happened after Matt Busby retired.

 

[croadyman]

Why did LVG pull the plug on a deal for Kroos if Moyes really had agreed it.

Why didn't Woodward have the brains to appoint someone for the Football side of things,maybe then we wouldn't have missed out on Klopp along with Guardiola.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

When I heard we’d appointed David Moyes to be Manchester United manager (still a ridiculous sounding sentence even now, 6 years later), I feared something like this would happen.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

No! I'm sorry, I'm not fecking having this bullshit.

SAF retired with us as Champions. If we'd hired a top-class manager and given him £100m to replace 2-3 of the old guard (in 2013, 100m would get three top players) and continued to rebuild the team in the same manner for 1-2 summers, we wouldn't have missed a fecking beat. This entire thing was completely avoidable - it didn't HAVE to be tricky in the slightest.

 

[croadyman]

Hate to say it but have to agree on this, the blame here is surely in Woodward's hands. Bloody Disney land......

I will never forgive Woody for messing that one up,he is the reason we are now made to watch Klopp turn Liverpool into the best side in Europe.

 

[rcoobc]

@RetroStu

total revisionism

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/managerial-tap-ins.371443/

I can't access the thread where Marcus wrote that post, but I'm pretty sure no-one was saying it was going to be hard to follow Fergie.

Fergie left us with a young squad (De Gea, Smalling, Jones, Rafael, Welbeck, Cleverley, etc) with young players on the cusp of breaking through (Lingard, Januzaj, Rashford, etc) and a load more players a bit past their prime but still good (Evra, Vidic, Rooney, Valencia, Nani, Hernandez, etc)

All we had to do was buy 1 world-class player each season (who actually wanted to be here) and 1 premier-league class player each season and we'd have competed every year since.

 

[Jim Beam]

His genius papered over the cracks but we’d been declining since 2009. The 2011 title win was a slog, and the 2013 win was RvP and Carrick dragging us through. The remnants of the ‘08 team were still there and declining year on year, and we simply never replaced them. This became abundantly clear when SAF retired and mere mortals were forced to try and get a tune out of Tom Cleverley and Johnny Evans.

He would have won easily two more titles with that team (Leicester year for example).

And, I always thought it wasn't so bad. Add Thiago and Herrera or even Kante (Fergie would go all in for him imo) in that team and it doesn't look nearly that bad.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

@RetroStu

total revisionism

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/managerial-tap-ins.371443/

I can't access the thread where Marcus wrote that post, but I'm pretty sure no-one was saying it was going to be hard to follow Fergie.

Fergie left us with a young squad (De Gea, Smalling, Jones, Rafael, Welbeck, Cleverley, etc) with young players on the cusp of breaking through (Lingard, Januzaj, Rashford, etc) and a load more players a bit past their prime but still good (Evra, Vidic, Rooney, Valencia, Nani, Hernandez, etc)

All we had to do was buy 1 world-class player each season (who actually wanted to be here) and 1 premier-league class player each season and we'd have competed every year since.

Maybe if SAF was still managing us, take a look how the careers of most of these players went on since then.
Nani, Cleverley, Lingard (lol), Welbeck, Januzaj, Young, Da silvas, Jones, Kagawa, Evans, Hernandez, etc, please tell me, where are all these supposedly title winning players nowadays?
They’re all mid table players at best.

Vidic and Rio were finished by 2013-2014, Valencia was poor even in SAF’s last season, we’ve won the league without a single functioning winger, and a midfield two of Carrick and Cleverley for crying out loud.
Rooney was past his best too by 2013.

RvP and De Gea were our only world class players at that point, you don’t win leagues with 2 world class players and a bunch of past it or mid table players, unless you have SAF as your manager.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Why did LVG pull the plug on a deal for Kroos if Moyes really had agreed it.

Why didn't Woodward have the brains to appoint someone for the Football side of things,maybe then we wouldn't have missed out on Klopp along with Guardiola.

Because he didn’t like him, sold him for Bayern.

 

[Johan07]

Because he didn’t like him, sold him for Bayern.

I am personally torn about how Kroos would have performed in the PL. I love him as a player, but he does have a problem with the tempo even in La Liga. I dont think that was the worst decision ever tbh.

 

[MadDogg]

I can't access the thread where Marcus wrote that post, but I'm pretty sure no-one was saying it was going to be hard to follow Fergie.

Fergie left us with a young squad (De Gea, Smalling, Jones, Rafael, Welbeck, Cleverley, etc) with young players on the cusp of breaking through (Lingard, Januzaj, Rashford, etc) and a load more players a bit past their prime but still good (Evra, Vidic, Rooney, Valencia, Nani, Hernandez, etc)

All we had to do was buy 1 world-class player each season (who actually wanted to be here) and 1 premier-league class player each season and we'd have competed every year since.

Nah, it was obvious we needed a bit of a rebuild. Our amazing defence was coming to an end (we did have high hopes for Smalling, Jones and Rafael, but they were all kids), and our midfield had been struggling for years with an ever revolving player next to Carrick who was himself getting old. Our attack was very reliant on a declining Rooney who Fergie wanted to sell (who actually had one more good season for Moyes before falling away terribly) and an aging RvP (who declined faster than expected). Our biggest hope was probably that Nani would get back to his 10/11 form, but other than that we had a team of old stars who were years past their best and youngsters who may or may not end up being good enough (we now know almost none of them were) with very few quality players at their peak years to actually provide stability.

Obviously if it was done right it wouldn't have been as difficult as it proved to be, but it was always going to require a fair effort.

 

[rcoobc]

Nah, it was obvious we needed a bit of a rebuild. Our amazing defence was coming to an end (we did have high hopes for Smalling, Jones and Rafael, but they were all kids), and our midfield had been struggling for years with an ever revolving player next to Carrick who was himself getting old. Our attack was very reliant on a declining Rooney who Fergie wanted to sell (who actually had one more good season for Moyes before falling away terribly) and an aging RvP (who declined faster than expected). Our biggest hope was probably that Nani would get back to his 10/11 form, but other than that we had a team of old stars who were years past their best and youngsters who may or may not end up being good enough (we now know almost none of them were) with very few quality players at their peak years to actually provide stability.

Obviously if it was done right it wouldn't have been as difficult as it proved to be, but it was always going to require a fair effort.

Again, this is after the fact revisionism.' I'm telling you no one thought this at the time.
Yes we needed a rebuild, but we had a war chest to do so. We've outspent everyone.

I'd rather have the 2012-2014 man utd team than the 2017-2019 team

 

[MadDogg]

Again, this is after the fact revisionism.' I'melling you no one thought this at the time.
Yes we needed a rebuild, but we had a war chest to do so. We've outspent everyone.

People had been talking about our weak midfield for years, that Evra was way past his best for years, and that both Rio and Vidic were struggling for fitness and form (by their standards) for years. We all hoped the kids would step up, but many people were worried about how almost all of our champions were on their last legs at the same time. It was acknowledged by pretty much everyone that a fairly average team had been carried to the title the previous year by RvP and Carrick both having the best season of their careers, while the rest of the team were generally declining year on year.

It wasn't an impossible job, but we needed more than just one world-class and one PL-class player each season. We were at a point where we needed at least six or seven players successfully coming into the starting 11 over the next two seasons. Not impossible, but not exactly easy either. We just completely fecked it up by poor management decisions and player recruitment.

I'd rather have the 2012-2014 man utd team than the 2017-2019 team

Obviously. A champion team on it's last legs is still better than what we have now. Both need significant rebuilding, but the former has the leadership and knowledge to help the new players bed in, and of course also has the reputation to make it easier to recruit top players.

 

[davidmichael]

I’m too young to remember the immediate post Sir Matt Busby United team but my Dad would constantly be telling me how bad the mid 70’s to mid 80’s were, he said the other day that this current situation actually feels worse than back then.

Not for a second did I think we’d decline so rapidly post Sir Alex, I knew it wouldn’t be as good as it had been but never did I see it playing out like it has. Moyes was 100% the wrong choice and if we had to have Jose come in then it should have been as successor to Sir Alex as Jose would have won at least one title before imploding in his third season.

The problem is we’ve basically stripped the club of every single thing that it had during Sir Alex’s reign that it’s going to take a long time to put it all back in place again. It’s such a shame that Ole doesn’t have a tactical nous or coaching ability that’s needed because he knows exactly what we need and how the club works, that’s why I really want Ole as Sporting Director and then have a great head coach (Pochettino, Tuchel, Nagelsmann or ten Hag ?) in charge of the tactical/team side.

 

[patty123]

Why did LVG pull the plug on a deal for Kroos if Moyes really had agreed it.

Why didn't Woodward have the brains to appoint someone for the Football side of things,maybe then we wouldn't have missed out on Klopp along with Guardiola.

While United ultimately settled for Louis van Gaal in the summer of 2014, there was, according to Klopp, genuine interest from the red half of Manchester over acquiring his services. Speaking to pundit and ex-Liverpool player Phil Thompson, Klopp explained why he turned them down:
"Yes, there was interest. Manchester United, yes, they were interested a year or a year and a half before, but it didn't feel right. I couldn't say Man United is not my club, it didn't feel right."

And according to pep himsel said he had already made his mind up at that time to move to Bayern but says no English club made more of an effort to entice him than City, whom he joined last year after three seasons in Bavaria.

“Bayern Munich were the first club to call me, and then Manchester City, but I had already decided to try to prove myself in Germany and live that experience,” he said. “After that, from almost the day I arrived [at Bayern], Manchester City asked me again and I said that if I went to the Premier League I would go to them.

Lets face it, klopp didnt want come here and pep was always city bound from the moment they installed his 2 former Barca mates. Like with certain players not all managers want to come here.

 

[manunited1919]

But how many fans feared it would be as bad as it has been, and how many thought all these years later post SAF, we would be as bad as we are now?.

I mean taking into account how big we are, the fanbase, the deals, the sheer money generated, should we really of dropped as much as we have post SAF?. Was he really 'That damn good' that its going to take us a decade to recover?.

I think all the last few years have proven to us is just how good SAF really was, if we ever needed any 'proof'.

If we had Mourinho right after SAF, the last 6 years would have been a completely different story. Out of the 4 managers that have been appointed after SAF, Mourinho is the ONLY one with the experience to run a club like ours. Maybe LVG.

 

[iHicksy]

I think that if we'd gone for Jose right away before he became broken, instead of Moyes and combined with the that winning mentality that the squad had, would have suited him down to the ground and we would still be challenging for the top 2.

 

[MadDogg]

While United ultimately settled for Louis van Gaal in the summer of 2014, there was, according to Klopp, genuine interest from the red half of Manchester over acquiring his services. Speaking to pundit and ex-Liverpool player Phil Thompson, Klopp explained why he turned them down:
"Yes, there was interest. Manchester United, yes, they were interested a year or a year and a half before, but it didn't feel right. I couldn't say Man United is not my club, it didn't feel right."

And according to pep himsel said he had already made his mind up at that time to move to Bayern but says no English club made more of an effort to entice him than City, whom he joined last year after three seasons in Bavaria.

“Bayern Munich were the first club to call me, and then Manchester City, but I had already decided to try to prove myself in Germany and live that experience,” he said. “After that, from almost the day I arrived [at Bayern], Manchester City asked me again and I said that if I went to the Premier League I would go to them.

Lets face it, klopp didnt want come here and pep was always city bound from the moment they installed his 2 former Barca mates. Like with certain players not all managers want to come here.

Pep was always going to City, but there's a very strong possibility that the reason 'it didn't feel right' for Klopp was because of how Woodward tried to sell the idea to him. Klopp said elsewhere that he was told it'd be like an adult version of Disneyland, and that he found that sales pitch 'unsexy'. Even then he didn't turn it down straight away. If we'd had somebody who knew what they were doing in that role approach him, he very well may have liked the idea. Or perhaps not. We'll never know.

 

[lon ball2]

I wonder in the long run, if losing Sir Alex or losing David Gill has had the most detrimental effect. Not to be-little Ferguson’s achievements, but just because of the sheer damage Woodward has done