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I'm worried about Rashford

Sandikan

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You shouldn't really. If he does, it will only mean Zlatan has underperformed for you. Weird thing to wish for.
Apologies, wrong thread, but the other Pool one was shut down.
Disagree strongly Ibe can't play centrally...he started at my boys Wycombe, and at 15 was playing centrally, and was pretty effective.
In time he could easily develop that way at Premier level.
 

B20

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Apologies, wrong thread, but the other Pool one was shut down.
Disagree strongly Ibe can't play centrally...he started at my boys Wycombe, and at 15 was playing centrally, and was pretty effective.
In time he could easily develop that way at Premier level.
Ibes main problem is his lack of guile. It's a problem on the wing, can barely imagine him central.
 

Sandikan

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Ibes main problem is his lack of guile. It's a problem on the wing, can barely imagine him central.
Hopefully you'll sell him for a ridiculous fee, as I believe we have something like 15% of the profit.
Worst case is you do a dodgy player exchange, rating him officially at about £23.50
 

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Base on my knowledge, a typical kind of forward/striker in Jose's setup is like Ibra, Drogba, Costa, Benzema. They are big, strong, can bully defenders easily. Other players play the ball to their head, chest, for them to distribute to teammates who run.

However, Rashford is not like that. To me, he is very much like the Aguerro kind, who runs a lot, runs into space, and dribble a lot. Teammates will typically play the ball for them to run, to chase, rather than play to their head or chest.

So, when Jose said Rashford is in his plan, I really wonder, how will Jose play Rashford?
 
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Base on my knowledge, a typical kind of forward/striker in Jose's setup is like Ibra, Drogba, Costa, Benzema. They are big, strong, can bully defenders easily. Other players play the ball to their head, chest, for them to distribute to teammates who run.

However, Rashford is not like that. To me, he is very much like the Aguerro kind, who runs a lot, runs into space, and dribble a lot. Teammates will typically play the ball for them to run, to chase, rather than play to their head or chest.

So, when Jose said Rashford is in his plan, I really wonder, how will Jose play Rashford?
You reckon he will be played more as a winger then?
 

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Base on my knowledge, a typical kind of forward/striker in Jose's setup is like Ibra, Drogba, Costa, Benzema. They are big, strong, can bully defenders easily. Other players play the ball to their head, chest, for them to distribute to teammates who run.

However, Rashford is not like that. To me, he is very much like the Aguerro kind, who runs a lot, runs into space, and dribble a lot. Teammates will typically play the ball for them to run, to chase, rather than play to their head or chest.

So, when Jose said Rashford is in his plan, I really wonder, how will Jose play Rashford?
You are spot. I dont see Marcus and Martial having a future as centre forwards with Jose as Manager. This is why its very reasonable to get worried about Marcus' game time next season. Its the same with Shaw and CBJ as I think they are not big and strong enough for Mourinho's liking although Shaw has a good chance. Reminds me of Bertrand at Chelsea also

You suggest Rashford might play on the wing, which is reasonable, but then that will present a bit of a problem because when LvG played him on the wing once he was hammered senselessly on this board. So I cant imagine people supporting a decision they criticised the previous Manager for, but you never know with people as the same happened with Martial. LvG alway thought he was best on left side but fans wanted him as a striker but eentually some came to see the sense in playing him LW although they never admitted they were wrong
 

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Base on my knowledge, a typical kind of forward/striker in Jose's setup is like Ibra, Drogba, Costa, Benzema. They are big, strong, can bully defenders easily. Other players play the ball to their head, chest, for them to distribute to teammates who run.

However, Rashford is not like that. To me, he is very much like the Aguerro kind, who runs a lot, runs into space, and dribble a lot. Teammates will typically play the ball for them to run, to chase, rather than play to their head or chest.

So, when Jose said Rashford is in his plan, I really wonder, how will Jose play Rashford?
My thoughts as well on the typical forward Jose prefers. Come to think of it though, If Rashford is given a chance to lead the attack and excels at everything Jose wants from him, will he still overlook him and play him as a winger just because he doesn't really have the attributes he prefers from a striker?. I think he probably won't and would continue playing him as a striker. I truly believe this kid will surprise him. He has more to his game than how he looks.

I also have a feeling Jose would play him as a winger though he is clearly a striker. Hopefully he won't. I would rather play him as a nine-and-a-half if Ibrahimovic performs incredibly well for us. Rashford would perfectly complement Ibrahimovic's style in my opinion and would provide the pace centrally. In addition to this, most defenders would focus on Ibrahimovic if he would play hence at some point this would create space that Rashford is really good at exploiting. His link-up play is quite good as well for the nine-and-a-half role. This is all theory ofcourse but I think it would work.
 

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You are spot. I dont see Marcus and Martial having a future as centre forwards with Jose as Manager. This is why its very reasonable to get worried about Marcus' game time next season. Its the same with Shaw and CBJ as I think they are not big and strong enough for Mourinho's liking although Shaw has a good chance. Reminds me of Bertrand at Chelsea also

You suggest Rashford might play on the wing, which is reasonable, but then that will present a bit of a problem because when LvG played him on the wing once he was hammered senselessly on this board. So I cant imagine people supporting a decision they criticised the previous Manager for, but you never know with people as the same happened with Martial. LvG alway thought he was best on left side but fans wanted him as a striker but eentually some came to see the sense in playing him LW although they never admitted they were wrong
Jose's Chelsea tried to sign Shaw and Martial. Martial is better as left wing forward than center forward. There isn't s reason to worry about Martial and Shaw.
 

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Jose's Chelsea tried to sign Shaw and Martial. Martial is better as left wing forward than center forward. There isn't s reason to worry about Martial and Shaw.
I also think we shouldn't worry about those two. Especially Martial. If the injury massively affects Shaw, then we should worry but I don't think it will.
 

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Jose's Chelsea tried to sign Shaw and Martial. Martial is better as left wing forward than center forward. There isn't s reason to worry about Martial and Shaw.
Remember at Chelsea not all signings were of the Manager's choice. It was a 3 way tie between the Manager, Emelano and Abromavich.

Martial will have to improe his work-rate, I can see a bit of issues that Hazard had with Mourinho that he wasn't a workhorse enough. Martial tends not to be aggressive or track back - one area he admitted LvG was always on his case for. Jose will work on that im sure.

Rashford is very talented and all that but he just doesnt fit the profile of Jose's previous strikers. Maybe it will change with him because he is good, great potential, a Mancunian and Jose would want to prove that he can work with youngsters. So hope those factors work in his favour but its not unreasonable to get worried over his chances especially if you look at the profile of players that Mourinho is buying - big and strong - Bailly, Ibra, Miki, Pogba
 
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roonster09

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Remember at Chelsea not all signings were of the Manager's choice. It was a 3 way tie between the Manager, Emelano and Abromavich.

Martial will have to improe his work-rate, I can see a bit of issues that Hazard had with Mourinho that he wasn't a workhorse enough. Martial tends not to be aggressive or track back - one area he admitted LvG was always on his case for. Jose will work on that im sure.

Rashford is very talented and all that but he just doesnt fit the profile of Jose's previous strikers. Maybe it will change with him because he is good, great potential, a Mancunian and Jose would want to prove that he can work with youngsters. So hope those factors work in his favour but its not unreasonable to get worried over his chances especially if you look at the profile of players that Mourinho is buying - big and strong - Bailly, Ibra, Miki, Pogba
Chelsea were linked with Shaw for months and Jose himself confirmed that they backed out once ManUtd made the offer.

Not sure what's wrong with Martial's work rate, when played as winger he covered his full back and did his defensive job.

Mkhitaryan is not big and strong. Fabregas wasn't big and strong but Jose signed him. There are plenty of examples of Jose signing smaller players.
 

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Shaw and Martial would be the least of our concern, honestly. A healthy Shaw and Martial will walk into any top teams and command the left flank.
 

CS@SG

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Back to Rashford. I re-read an article that I have read a month ago (and forgotten most of the details), and recall something interesting.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36313516

He had played at right winger in youth matches (though this article never specifically telling it is at the right wing, I am rather sure that I read in other articles that, he played right winger/right forward before). So that is not something unfamiliar to him.

What's more interesting is:
"He wasn't goal obsessed," he said. "He would play up front but he was always wanting to be the clever number 10.

"Someone with that much ability and speed is wasted doing that.

"It happened with Cristiano Ronaldo. When he first came he was all tricks and stepovers and show. Then he started to realise that goals got you all the attention. And he changed didn't he? He started to score headers. He saw what could happen if he changed to a striker's mentality."

So the work on Rashford began. His body shape, his runs, his timing. How he received the ball. Practice, practice and more practice.

"We won a good indoor tournament in Germany in front of 6,000 people," said McGuinness.

"We used it specifically with Marcus to work on receiving the ball one on one with his back to goal."
He can play back to goal, the Jose kind of striker role. However, the youth team coaches must have seen something unique in him:

But a summer conversation between McGuinness and Joyce has had a dramatic outcome.

Former Crewe Alex striker and prolific non-league goalscorer Colin Little was given the job of showing Rashford how to be a centre forward.

"He needed to work specifically with Colin on his finishing, his movement, receiving the ball chest forward rather than with his back to goal," said McGuinness. "He would learn how to get on the shoulder of the last man, quickly swing his hips round and run sideways to open up the space for a pass. Lots of little details.

"We did that lots and lots. We directed a lot of team practice on it. We targeted him because he deserved it. We thought he could be a first-team player.
There is another article that I just read, today. The author is rather confident that, Rashford will have times under Jose, and be played at the No 9 role.
http://www.unitedrant.co.uk/opinion/mourinho-and-marcus-the-special-match/

We can look at this from a few aspects.

Do Jose play single striker (433, 4231, his Chelsea time) or double strikers (4132, 4312, his Inter Milan time). If it is the double strikers formation, for sure Rashford will have more time. A combination of Zlatan + Rashford looks promising.

But, if it is the single striker role, then it depends on whether Jose trust Rashford as his single striker. If he doesn't trust, we may see Rashford more on the winger/forward role. When Zlatan is rested or injured, we may see Rooney back to his striker role, or we may even see Jose bringing in another backup striker to Zlatan (recall Demba Ba, Loic Remy?) If he trusts Rashford, then, things will be interesting. I think he will change his style, setup, to accommodate Rashford instead of forcing him to play back to goal style (I know, this is contradicting to what I have said in my previous post). People are saying that, Jose does change his setups. For example, he usually does not play a deep-lying playmaker, but he played Fab at Chelsea, Alonso at RM. Ball playing CB is not the typical CB that he likes, but he wanted Stones. So, it seems that he does change.
 
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snk123

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I'm more worried about Martial because DD has been a real dick to him - don't know how much of his confidence will suffer next season
 

Bruno8

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Back to Rashford. I re-read an article that I have read a month ago (and forgotten most of the details), and recall something interesting.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36313516

He had played at right winger in youth matches (though this article never specifically telling it is at the right wing, I am rather sure that I read in other articles that, he played right winger/right forward before). So that is not something unfamiliar to him.

What's more interesting is:


He can play back to goal, the Jose kind of striker role. However, the youth team coaches must have seen something unique in him:



There is another article that I just read, today. The author is rather confident that, Rashford will have times under Jose, and be played at the No 9 role.
http://www.unitedrant.co.uk/opinion/mourinho-and-marcus-the-special-match/

We can look at this from a few aspects.

Do Jose play single striker (433, 4231, his Chelsea time) or double strikers (4132, 4312, his Inter Milan time). If it is the double strikers formation, for sure Rashford will have more time. A combination of Zlatan + Rashford looks promising.

But, if it is the single striker role, then it depends on whether Jose trust Rashford as his single striker. If he doesn't trust, we may see Rashford more on the winger/forward role. When Zlatan is rested or injured, we may see Rooney back to his striker role, or we may even see Jose bringing in another backup striker to Zlatan (recall Demba Ba, Loic Remy?) If he trusts Rashford, then, things will be interesting. I think he will change his style, setup, to accommodate Rashford instead of forcing him to play back to goal style (I know, this is contradicting to what I have said in my previous post). People are saying that, Jose does change his setups. For example, he usually does not play a deep-lying playmaker, but he played Fab at Chelsea, Alonso at RM. Ball playing CB is not the typical CB that he likes, but he wanted Stones. So, it seems that he does change.
If Rashford plays wide then it means Miki will sit on the bench which is an unforgivable sin according to caf sentiment
 

MounchesterUtd

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From being worried about Rashford to arguably England's only player that walked away from the Euros with his reputation intact (albeit in limited minutes). What a kid!
 

shamans

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Every hyped young player worth his salt encounters his own 'flight or fight' predicament; a crossroads in their career that separates the Bojans and Januzajs from the actual cream of the crop. Will the Euros be Rashford's, or will it be next season under Jose? We will only know in hindsight.
.
Januzaj carried a David Moyes Manchester United at the age of 18. Not his fault he got Van Gaal'd.
 

MounchesterUtd

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Januzaj carried a David Moyes Manchester United at the age of 18. Not his fault he got Van Gaal'd.
He also got Tuchel'd, was that VG's fault? I think it's time to accept that he either just had a ridiculously good purple patch during the Moyes era or he has a shit attitude. Possibly both.
 

The United

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He also got Tuchel'd, was that VG's fault? I think it's time to accept that he either just had a ridiculously good purple patch during the Moyes era or he has a shit attitude. Possibly both.
Like I said a lot of times before, you need to be mentally right to become a star.

Januzaj has the talent but his attitude and mental strength have always been under questions by almost every coaches since Moyes. It will be his attitude if he does not develop further.

Rashford has shown exactly the opposite so far. Which is why I am not worried that he plays a lot or under pressure bla bla bs. Of course he could still turn out to be shit. But so far so good.
 

shamans

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He also got Tuchel'd, was that VG's fault? I think it's time to accept that he either just had a ridiculously good purple patch during the Moyes era or he has a shit attitude. Possibly both.
How many appearances did he get in Dortmund? How many of them were sub appearances? Even in those he wasn't that bad. Januzaj's development is not over. If we let this kid go he will make a name for himself somewhere else. No way what we say in his debut season can be describes as a purple patch. The way he took on whole a team's whole defense at times is not something that can be taught to many players.

In fact, I still rate Januzaj as the higher prospect than Rashford.
 

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How many appearances did he get in Dortmund? How many of them were sub appearances? Even in those he wasn't that bad. Januzaj's development is not over. If we let this kid go he will make a name for himself somewhere else. No way what we say in his debut season can be describes as a purple patch. The way he took on whole a team's whole defense at times is not something that can be taught to many players.

In fact, I still rate Januzaj as the higher prospect than Rashford.
Doesn't his lack of appearances at Dortmund tell us something? A potential world class player would never have a problem like that regardless of competition. Anyway his attitude was questioned as well when he was Dortmund. I don't see Januzaj ever fulfilling his great promise unfortunately.
 
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Doesn't his lack of appearances at Dortmund tell us something? A potential world class player would never have a problem like that regardless of competition. Anyway his attitude was questioned as well when he was Dortmund. I don't see Januzaj ever fulfilling his great promise unfortunately.
Wasn't he up against Reus, Mkhitaryan, Aubameyang et al. for a place in the forward line? Not easy for a 20 year old non-BVB player to manage getting past them. I have no idea what his future holds, or whether he'll turn out any good, but I don't think we can read anything into his Dortmund excursion. He just chose the wrong destination I think.
 

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Doesn't his lack of appearances at Dortmund tell us something? A potential world class player would never have a problem like that regardless of competition. Anyway his attitude was questioned as well when he was Dortmund. I don't see Januzaj ever fulfilling his great promise unfortunately.
The lack of appearances don't say anything. Their attacking 3 was top drawer, Kagawa, Mkhitaryan and reus. 1st choice backup was their academy lad Hoffman. Even Castro used to be deployed there iirc. It was always such a stupid loan destination. He wasn't good enough to be first choice and being on loan, Dortmund had no incentive at all to give him game time to aid his development.

I'd be more concerned about the attitude bit but 1yr in the wilderness should have solved that.
 

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The lack of appearances don't say anything. Their attacking 3 was top drawer, Kagawa, Mkhitaryan and reus. 1st choice backup was their academy lad Hoffman. Even Castro used to be deployed there iirc. It was always such a stupid loan destination. He wasn't good enough to be first choice and being on loan, Dortmund had no incentive at all to give him game time to aid his development.

I'd be more concerned about the attitude bit but 1yr in the wilderness should have solved that.
But surely he would have had some discussion with Dortmund before signing - there must have been some expectation of playing such that both Januzaj and Dortmund benefit from the loan. Clearly it didn't go according to the plan as his time was terminated. This is after Van Gaal clearly started the season with high reliance on Januzaj as a striker/winger but changed his mind quickly after he failed to step up presumably.
Apart from 3-4 months of (admittedly electrifying) performance, Januzaj has shown nothing that suggests he will be a superstar player. I don't think we should plan on relying on him this season. We should only keep him to give him another chance to prove himself and work himself up the pecking order (we gave this much opportunity to even Anderson!).
 

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But surely he would have had some discussion with Dortmund before signing - there must have been some expectation of playing such that both Januzaj and Dortmund benefit from the loan. Clearly it didn't go according to the plan as his time was terminated. This is after Van Gaal clearly started the season with high reliance on Januzaj as a striker/winger but changed his mind quickly after he failed to step up presumably.
Apart from 3-4 months of (admittedly electrifying) performance, Januzaj has shown nothing that suggests he will be a superstar player. I don't think we should plan on relying on him this season. We should only keep him to give him another chance to prove himself and work himself up the pecking order (we gave this much opportunity to even Anderson!).
Well, whatever discussion he might have had regarding getting game time had to be reliant on him delivering from the get go and for that to happen, it would need to be at a level higher than their 1st choice 3. Maybe Januzaj was confident of doing this but the chances were always bleak in that regard.

I don't think we'll rely on him being qstn choice anyways. Mkhitaryan + Martial are pretty much guaranteed to be the 1st choice wide option. The likes of Memphis, Lingard, Januzaj etc would be backups.
 

Perrick Dubois

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He can play back to goal, the Jose kind of striker role. However, the youth team coaches must have seen something unique in him:
Fascinating, helped him get on board with Van Gaal last year. I did think he had a lot more synergy with his back to goal than a lot of our other forwards. Thanks for the info.
 

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But surely he would have had some discussion with Dortmund before signing - there must have been some expectation of playing such that both Januzaj and Dortmund benefit from the loan. Clearly it didn't go according to the plan as his time was terminated. This is after Van Gaal clearly started the season with high reliance on Januzaj as a striker/winger but changed his mind quickly after he failed to step up presumably.
Apart from 3-4 months of (admittedly electrifying) performance, Januzaj has shown nothing that suggests he will be a superstar player. I don't think we should plan on relying on him this season. We should only keep him to give him another chance to prove himself and work himself up the pecking order (we gave this much opportunity to even Anderson!).
Reus has been injury prone but last season he managed to keep himself fit whilst guys like Mkhi had amazing seasons. Dortmund probably got Januzaj as insurance incase Reus got injured or guys like Mkhi produced the form they did 2 seasons ago but things did not play into Adnans favour. As for chances under Lvg don't forget that we sold most of out wing options under him because he was obsessed with wingbacks in his first season and obviously a guy like Adnan would struggle to get game time in that set up. Last season Lvg again gave him a chance but as a number ten not as a winger, after his loan I remember he played as a wingback for us against Southampton for like 10 minutes. He was never given a proper chance under LVG, I felt sorry for him because he worked so hard last summer with Shaw in Dubai preparing for this past season.
 

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Jose will love him. Pace, power, hungry and fearless. Shows and doesnt hide, even if he is unlucky/fails in trying.
 

redtilded121

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it does seem like he is getting good coaching ,and has a good attitude by these recent posts thanks guys for that,i think he will get plenty of game time we will have 60-65 competitive fixtures mourinho does like his cup runs there will be time for him to have a poor spell without the pressure of being the main man.so no I am not worried.
 

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I'm more worried about Martial because DD has been a real dick to him - don't know how much of his confidence will suffer next season
if anything that will make him happy to come back to United where it's obvious the fans love him. Appreciate what you're saying in the sense you think he might be shy on confidence, but sometimes just moving back to where you're happy makes a big difference to a player
 

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Januzaj carried a David Moyes Manchester United at the age of 18. Not his fault he got Van Gaal'd.
Where did he carry them to exactly ?

Januzaj is not and will never be a top player let alone one of europes best if he moves clubs , like you mentioned on page 1
 

Striker10

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Where did he carry them to exactly ?

Januzaj is not and will never be a top player let alone one of europes best if he moves clubs , like you mentioned on page 1
He might one day but he needs to work on his productivity. I think he could offer something centrally but so could pereira and many others.
 

shamans

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Where did he carry them to exactly ?

Januzaj is not and will never be a top player let alone one of europes best if he moves clubs , like you mentioned on page 1
He is a potential worldie let alone a top player. Time will tell. I am not the oldest but in my thirteen years or so of following football (which isn't a lot compared to many on here) I haven't seen a better youngster at his age bar Messi, Rooney and maybe Ronaldo.

Just watch the highlights of that season and you will see the games when he carried us.
 

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He is a potential worldie let alone a top player. Time will tell. I am not the oldest but in my thirteen years or so of following football (which isn't a lot compared to many on here) I haven't seen a better youngster at his age bar Messi, Rooney and maybe Ronaldo.

Just watch the highlights of that season and you will see the games when he carried us.
and Kiko Macheda was the second coming of Zlatan Ibrahimovic.
 

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He is a potential worldie let alone a top player. Time will tell. I am not the oldest but in my thirteen years or so of following football (which isn't a lot compared to many on here) I haven't seen a better youngster at his age bar Messi, Rooney and maybe Ronaldo.

Just watch the highlights of that season and you will see the games when he carried us.
We finished 7th. Our lowest finish in PL history. He did not carry us, he had maybe 5 good games at the most and has been deemed surplus to requirements ever since, both at us and dortmund. If he was good enough, we'd know by now.

If Januzaj ever gets near the ballon d'or shortlist, I will donate $1000 to the caf
 

shamans

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and Kiko Macheda was the second coming of Zlatan Ibrahimovic.
Januzaj is a potential worldie and I stand by my statement. I never thought Macheda as that. I thought Macheda could develop into a really good player for us but nothing close to the feeling I had from Januzaj.


We finished 7th. Our lowest finish in PL history. He did not carry us, he had maybe 5 good games at the most and has been deemed surplus to requirements ever since, both at us and dortmund. If he was good enough, we'd know by now.

If Januzaj ever gets near the ballon d'or shortlist, I will donate $1000 to the caf

FFS he was 18! He carried us for those games he was involved in. He was a constant threat. He attracted the likes of PSG and international teams were fighting over him. How can you argue his first season wasn't special? Watch how he tore through defences at that age and tell me it wasn't special.

Again, how much playing time did he get at Dortmund? How much of it was sub appearences?

Quoted you on that.