India politics thread

Sultan

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@Sultan isn't travel forbidden in Islam during times of epidemics?

I guess this TJ fiasco could well have been avoided if the foreign pilgrims (?) never came in.
Please see @milemuncher777 reply.

India only suspended visitor visas on the 12th of March. Basically the governments around the world did not consider the serious implications of the pandemic prior to these dates. The foreign visitors had obviously come to India prior to the visa ban. There is basically no evidence any foreign TJ participants had arrived in the country with the virus. It's not beyond any possibility if cases are proven to be positive at the Markaz they could have been infected locally. The press fail to mention there had been 10's of thousands of foreigners coming to India prior to restrictions who could have been carrying the virus. However, the drama queens in the media and certain MP's need their daily fix of bashing a certain section of the community.
 

Sultan

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India seriously needs to alter the way people are brought or forces themselves into the political system for the betterment of the country. I see more intelligent Indians on this forum than the Prime Minister and certain members of his cabinet.
 

ThatsGreat

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https://swarajyamag.com/insta/uttar...-prayagraj-for-remark-against-tablighi-jamaat

Interesting that videos of hindus asking for muslims to be shot are being shared, whereas Hindus actually being shot is not.
A religious fascist would've cordoned off the muslim areas and let them infect eact other to their hearts content not begged them to come out and get treated. Most of his support base wouldn't have been unhappy if he had followed the first course of action.
 
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ThatsGreat

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Its very revealing that the muslims in this thread have not a single word to say against the Tablighi Jamaat. Its almost as if they can do no wrong. Its all Modi, Islamophobia, etc etc. I see the scisms between the pro and anti modi factions get even wider.
 

Sultan

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@ThatsGreat

Anyway, to answer your questions which you edited/deleted.

Obviously, in a secular society, there is space to criticise beliefs. Individuals should be judged on their personal attributes rather than based on the category of colour, creed, caste, religion to which they to belong.

It's not correct to attribute collective responsibility for crimes or wrongdoings on the basis of shared group identity. Muslims are not exceptional in vice or virtue. We are just as human as any other group.
 

berbatrick

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My parents are asking about the power thing - should they shut the fridge to avoid voltage spikes? I don't know, I told them yes, shut it down well before 9 and start it after 9:20 when hopefully it's working ok.
Does anyone have a more informed opinion?
 

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My parents are asking about the power thing - should they shut the fridge to avoid voltage spikes? I don't know, I told them yes, shut it down well before 9 and start it after 9:20 when hopefully it's working ok.
Does anyone have a more informed opinion?
You needn't shut the fridges. Your home has a centralised voltage circuit breaker, I assume. Should be sufficient. Anyways, PGCIL and states know what to do. Doubt anything should go wrong now that they are prepared for it. But man, what a waste of human resources at a time like this.
 

AshRK

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My parents are asking about the power thing - should they shut the fridge to avoid voltage spikes? I don't know, I told them yes, shut it down well before 9 and start it after 9:20 when hopefully it's working ok.
Does anyone have a more informed opinion?
If I am not wrong, you just have to turn off the lights and light some diyas or torch. No need to turn off any other appliances.
 

Bestie07

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Is this power surge thing a real cause for concern? It's already 40 degrees here in Pune and I can't afford for my refrigerator to go out - will be impossible to get it fixed. Already without my TV too as I broke it the day before the lockdown was announced. Of all the times to have broken my TV, I broke it at a time when I am going to be stuck at home for months and won't be able to buy a new one :annoyed:
 

berbatrick

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If I am not wrong, you just have to turn off the lights and light some diyas or torch. No need to turn off any other appliances.
I'm not talking about what we "have" to do, I'm asking about possible damage to the fridge.
 

berbatrick

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How will turning off your light damage your fridge?
everyone turning off and on their lights at a particular moment can quickly change the current drawn from the grid, voltage surges can happen with sudden changes in current drawn from the grid, these surges can damage the compressor of the fridge.
 

pratyush_utd

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everyone turning off and on their lights at a particular moment can quickly change the current drawn from the grid, voltage surges can happen with sudden changes in current drawn from the grid, these surges can damage the compressor of the fridge.
Dont worry nothing will happen. Household only accounts for 30% of total load and if only lights are turned off, it will be extremely less. Its safe to keep your appliances on.
 

berbatrick

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is it supposed to be only lights? and has he said anything about streetlights?
 

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I'm not taking any chances. Keep your expensive/important stuff switched off between 8.50 and 9.20
 

RedDevil@84

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I got conflicting reports from different engineers. Some said that a pre-planned switching off of lights could be taken care by the grid. Some said that given that many industries are on lockdown and already using quite less power, even 10% drop and then a 10% surge could cause power trip.
I am not sure why we couldn't just light diyas and not switch off anything. I am sure health workers, doctors, poor wouldn't mind.

Anyways, all the best!!
 

Foxbatt

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Its very revealing that the muslims in this thread have not a single word to say against the Tablighi Jamaat. Its almost as if they can do no wrong. Its all Modi, Islamophobia, etc etc. I see the scisms between the pro and anti modi factions get even wider.
You are being either idiotic or biased. How do you know who is a Muslim or a Hindu or a Christian or a Jew or Buddhist or from any other religion here?
 

VidaRed

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My colleague sent this on whatsapp, his son is in mothers international school and the school wants them to fill up a form where they want to know whether his son will be lighting a diya at 9pm on 5th april apart from downloading some arogya setu app.

Dear Parent,
Please submit the form as required by DDE Zone- 23. The data has to be submitted to DOE tomorrow morning.
Regards.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScsz5qt2tn4xrTMzlmUQ-qRoo169bqhlRkKeMujWmeNVbgcIg/viewform
Government Asks Schools, Students to Download Tracking App, Harness 'Power of Light'

The Wire spoke to principals of a few privately-run schools in Delhi and Chennai. All of them confirmed that they had got the circular from CBSE to pass on the three-point instruction before the evening of April 6, 2020.

“We have asked our students and teachers to download the Aarogya Setu application by April 6. We have also emailed parents of our students to encourage them to light a diya on April 5. We received the notice on the morning of April 4. Although it is quite difficult for us to enforce all the directives in a day or two, we have somehow been able to do it,” the principal of one renowned school in north-west Delhi told The Wire on condition of anonymity.

A teacher at a Noida-based school, too, said, “All teachers have been asked to send clear instructions to our students to participate in the ‘diya jalao’ programme. I have asked my students to download the Aarogya Setu application but there is no way to verify whether all of them have done that or not. The schools are not functioning.”

When contacted, the principal of a prominent school in South-East Chennai acknowledged receiving intimation of the MHRD notice and noted that all teachers had been informed on Saturday evening.

“We will look to get a rough headcount of how many students have participated. There is an internal communication channel called Yokibu through we disseminate information. Apart from this, there are other informal WhatsApp groups, where we will also collect photos of the students lighting lamps today along with their families,” the principal, who declined to be identified, said.

Although the MHRD order only recommends that schools implement the three-point directive, the principals with whom The Wire spoke claim that the CBSE has apparently circulated a Microsoft Excel sheet that requires the heads of schools to give out details on the number of teachers and parents who downloaded the Arogya Setu application, or the number of students who “participated in candle lighting on 5th April at their home”.

https://thewire.in/government/aarogya-setu-mhrd-covid-19-diyas
 

milemuncher777

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https://swarajyamag.com/insta/uttar...-prayagraj-for-remark-against-tablighi-jamaat

Interesting that videos of hindus asking for muslims to be shot are being shared, whereas Hindus actually being shot is not.
A religious fascist would've cordoned off the muslim areas and let them infect eact other to their hearts content not begged them to come out and get treated. Most of his support base wouldn't have been unhappy if he had followed the first course of action.
Please stop spreading fake news from hate peddling sites.
 

VidaRed

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My parents are asking about the power thing - should they shut the fridge to avoid voltage spikes? I don't know, I told them yes, shut it down well before 9 and start it after 9:20 when hopefully it's working ok.
Does anyone have a more informed opinion?
You needn't shut the fridges. Your home has a centralised voltage circuit breaker, I assume. Should be sufficient. Anyways, PGCIL and states know what to do. Doubt anything should go wrong now that they are prepared for it. But man, what a waste of human resources at a time like this.
is it supposed to be only lights? and has he said anything about streetlights?
I'm not taking any chances. Keep your expensive/important stuff switched off between 8.50 and 9.20
I got conflicting reports from different engineers. Some said that a pre-planned switching off of lights could be taken care by the grid. Some said that given that many industries are on lockdown and already using quite less power, even 10% drop and then a 10% surge could cause power trip.
I am not sure why we couldn't just light diyas and not switch off anything. I am sure health workers, doctors, poor wouldn't mind.

Anyways, all the best!!
Its moronic that this is even being discussed.
 

pratyush_utd

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I wouldn't really bother with defending the Congress considering I don't support them or think much of them either (in the modern avatar). And know they have many ghosts in their closet as well. Going into 3 decade back issues is pointless given I can only speak of the political climate I've witnessed in this country myself. For every murderous Congress goon there will be a rapist BJP one like we've recently seen (who the party entertained despite the accusations), and I'm sure me compiling a 200 word fact sheet of BJPs failings (see the corruption cases that saw them kicked out pre UPA) would be fine and dandy but wouldn't hit at the point I'm getting at.
I mentioned others because i dont see any distinction between present government and previous state and central governments. Only change now is that there is a strong lobby which used to be sycophants of the ruling government has now been banished, and there is a strong reaction from that group. Not saying their reporting is incorrect but just heavily biased with a dose of selective amnesia towards other government deeds.

Which is clear is that over the last 30 years, I've not seen a central government /leadership that is as fascist, authoritarian, bigoted etc as this one. I mean, you're pretty much trotting out the BJP party line - elite media bad, foreign media biased etc.
This is your opinion. I don't agree at all with this, I have seen much worse and sinister government than the present one.

  • Look at the state of the media. There's a reason why the phrase Godi media exists. Most of them merely exist to serve the centre and puppet their agenda into the minds of the public every night. I've not witnessed this level of control over the media.
Lutyen's Media term also exist in the same country and was coined by Tavleen Singh who is quite reputed journalist. The overall state of media is quite disappointing to be honest with you but it has been quite bad for decades now. This isn't something that changed overnight.

  • What is that agenda? Hindu Muslim. Ram Ayodhya. India Pakistan. Incredible Modi. It's like Mutv for the BJP, really. Again, I've not seen this before. We had rubbish TV before and the odd case I'm sure of biased TV. But a collective loss of their balls? Nope.
Ram Mandir issue may not be an issue for you or me but it is an issue for millions of Indians who have waited 100 years to get the right to pray on their holy land. You just cant dismiss it as a non issue just because it doesn't matter to you. If Congress really wanted to solve it, they could have but they let BJP hijack and BJP did what it needed to win elections. People have always voted on religious and caste lines. Even before BJP inception. Quality of debate was always going to go down as more and more channel came into the picture. If the debate is controversial then TRP is higher. I am not sure how BJP is to blame for this. For your information, it was Rajiv Gandhi who actually opened the gates and allowed pooja inside the temple to pacify Hindus after his pandering act towards Muslim. It was a collective failure by political class, BJP just benefited the most from it.

  • And forget TV, there's been a rampant increase in hatred towards minorities. It's on WhatsApp, it's in the fake news game, it's now in our living rooms. I'm grateful that while growing up I didn't have to witness relatives damning "those Muslims...". But now I have to and I'm most definitely not grateful for it. Nor am I grateful I have to listen to another relative call them "dirty uneducated people who keep having children and nothing else". This is a societal change and it's clear to anyone who is watching.
Animosity between communities have always been there. Its just more apparent now as people have access to Whatsapp and facebook. And its not one sided, let me assure you of that. Demographic change is real, it may not impact you in your bubble but it has for millions out there. That issue is nothing new, it just more visible now as people have access to social media much more. Its not an exclusive issue to one community.

  • Then there's the Hindu fear mongering which is pretty incredible. Again not seen it before. The majority made to feel like they've been wronged by India for 70 years.
  • Puppeteering of other institutions. May have happened in the 80s/early 90s. Don't know. Haven't seen it as much as this since I have been following.
If you think present government has sabotaged democratic institution more than its your opinion and you are entitled have one.Congress under UPA had worse record of sabotaging but again its a subjective argument and to be honest both don't fair well in this department.

  • Hindu Rashtra. Hindutva. Politics and the agenda of one religion (and especially it's fanatical side) intertwined with the state. Again, if you feel this is par for course then that's your perogative. I don't. And I think any intelligent and mature nation shouldn't. We are clearly not there yet.
I have no idea how you thought I am for Hindu Rashtra. I don't want my country to be Hindu Pakistan.



  • And I haven't even gone into CAA/NRC, the Ram Mandir issue, Electoral Bonds, and their butchering of the Indian economy.
I know there is a lot of emotion about CAA, but CAA in isolation should not be an issue at all. It was something India should have done post partition and i am glad it is done. Millions of people who have fled and are living like cockroaches in our country can finally live with some dignity. You want to deny them that because according to you semantics of the bill does not go well with "secularism" (ironically which was added to Preamble during emergency) then you are entitled to your opinion. We can have the discussion on it if you want to but i believe it was correct and humane thing to do. Its not for current Indian citizen so i don't know why its an issue to begin with. Also we have created laws for specific group like the SC/ST act before, so exclusion of one category ( by the way not even Indians) is perfectly legal and allowed under Constitution. I think just recently even Kapil Sibal admitted the same in the Rajya Sabha. There is no change to original act, this was just an amendment and original process of giving citizenship is still there.

As far as NRC is concerned, there is hardly any information other than fear mongering that it will exclude Indian Muslims of India. There is no document pertaining to NRC, not even a draft. Assam NRC is a completely different process and i don't think that will be applicable to whole India.

Election bonds are rubbish and should go. Arun Jaitley was probably one of the finest leaders we had, but i have no idea why he created this corruption and lobbying monster.

Economy was struggling last few quarter but that has happened under previous government too. UPA 2 in 2012 had 3% growth with 6 % inflation and an all time low fiscal deficit even when China was growing at 7%. Even the famous dollar exchange argument completely miss the rate of growth was higher under UPA 2 than NDA. Is economy struggling? Of course, but it is not an exclusive to this government. I think someone who is more knowledgeable on economy can comment on what is wrong but most estimates i read had us recovering next year before coronavirus happened.

At the end of the day we clearly disagree. I see the BJP in its modern Shah-Modi format as a threat to India's ideals. Do I believe that Congress, on the other hand, would take us on the path to glory of course not? While I think Congress without the Gandhi's (what is that even given they have it by the neck) could be a less dangerous alternative, I'd prefer something more robust, more modern and more morally tuned in. But I don't see that happening anytime soon and this is sadly what we are stuck with.
To be honest, apart from CAA, i don't think we disagree on lot of topics. Bigotry and communal hatred has definitely reached alarming level. But where we differ is that you believe all of it is down to few political leader, which i don't agree with. It was always present and due to social media, its just more apparent now. Has BJP played it to their advantage? Yes they did but so has other political party in the past. You cant just brush it away saying it happened in the past so it doesn't matter.
 

coolredwine

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https://swarajyamag.com/insta/uttar...-prayagraj-for-remark-against-tablighi-jamaat

Interesting that videos of hindus asking for muslims to be shot are being shared, whereas Hindus actually being shot is not.
A religious fascist would've cordoned off the muslim areas and let them infect eact other to their hearts content not begged them to come out and get treated. Most of his support base wouldn't have been unhappy if he had followed the first course of action.
It really is funny to see the likes of you cling on to anything that fake news media “reports” sitting in their caves.

Even UP Police is doing a fact check today :lol:
 

VidaRed

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From Mandir to Mahamari: Watching ‘Ramayan’ in turbulent times

The idea of serialising a Hindu epic came from SS Gill, the Secretary of Information and Broadcasting at the time, who recalled that Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi had hesitated at accepting his proposal, fearing that the show was meant for a mainly Hindu audience. Gill, “a strong leftist” as he described himself, told me that he reassured Gandhi that the Ramayan was a national epic, and part of the majority culture; there was nothing partisan about it, he insisted.

It was the magic of television that allowed the diverse and at times antagonistic castes and sects of Indian society to be counted together as one audience.

In early 1987, at a BJP conclave scheduled to meet on a Sunday morning in Ahmedabad, party leaders were surprised to find their chosen venue empty. They discovered that the scheduled time conflicted with the Ramayan broadcast. It was then, the late BJP leader Jay Dubashi told me, that party leaders realised there was an opportunity here that they could pursue. BJP leaders, in fact, appear to have decided to back the Ram Mandir agitation, which was started by a Congressman from Agra, Daudayal Khanna, after witnessing the extraordinary appeal of the show.

At every major step in this fateful marriage of Hindu politics and new technology, the Congress took the initiative, the BJP reaped the maximum benefit, and the Congress was then tarred as a public enemy. What else does a “Congress-mukt Bharat” mean, after all?

https://scroll.in/article/957801/from-mandir-to-mahamari-watching-the-ramayan-in-turbulent-times
 

AshRK

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These people should not be given any more tasks. Immatured freaks.
 

MDFC Manager

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It really is funny to see the likes of you cling on to anything that fake news media “reports” sitting in their caves.

Even UP Police is doing a fact check today :lol:
That's great :lol:

Though should have been expected when you saw the source as swarajya
 

Sultan

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I couldn't copy the original letter for some reason with the honorable PM's original signature and stamp.

کاماری ( امیر جماعت دولية .9 (اس وقت) وز یا ظلم ہند را Marinha مزز مہاراة PRIME MINISTER New Delhi June 10, 1996 Janab Maulana Zubair Hassan Sahib. and he I learnt distinguished father Maulana Inam ul Hassan. Tablighi Jamaat, last night in Delhi, with sorrow and pain e nation has lost a true son of India, who always preached tolerance, har Hassan had great moderation. Maulana Inam your compassion for the poor and downtrodden always showed his deep concern for them. about the sad and untimely demise of you Amit death Maulana Sahib, the has Maulana Inamul Hassan Sahib headed distinguished institution of Tablighi Jamaat since 1965 significantly contributed to its objectives of peace and harmony: Tle was an eminent scholar of Islam and a mu of simplicity and erudition. In his death, the country lost an outstanding man of religion. I send my members of your family. May God to bear this loss. heartfelt condolences to you and other give you the strength Yours sincerely, (P.V. Narasimha Rao)
 

Sultan

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The reason for the post is to prove the Markaz is known to the government and its security sources. It shuns politics and only concerns its mission on self reformation. There is also no conversion.

I copied the above with some software. Apologies if some of the words have not been copied in proper text.
 

MDFC Manager

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Look at this maulana Raja of Tabligh Jamiat, still not following social distancing and lockdown regulations.