Is Garnacho about to be "Cavanied"? | No

[Jippy]

Garnacho grew up in Spain. Spanish people know comparing black people to gorillas is something racists have done for a long time. Their fans do it enough to black players in La Liga. It has nothing to do with UK culture being sensitive to this. Everybody around the entire world knows the connotations here.

I don't think Garnacho meant it in a racist way, but he has to know how posting something like that is going to look. Yes, I do think he is dumb for posting this.

Yeah I'm obviously well aware of monkey chants at matches and other lowlife acts.
Who knows, maybe he is a casual racist without realising it, even if he likes Onana. Spain does have a terrible record for racism and I've seen racist charicatures at Las Fallas which no-one seemed to bat an eyelid at.

Personally I've more thought of and heard gorilla being used for someone big and hairy, rather than black. Saying that, it's not an emoji or term I'd ever use when addressing a black person because you can see the potential for offence.
Hopefully he'll learn from it, as will others, and it will all be a storm in a teacup in the great scheme of things.

 

[AnotherLondonManc]

You can argue it is common sense not to post what Garnacho did.

Not really. You need to consider that Garnacho is not native to the UK. The imagery of a gorilla is hardly commonplace in relation to racism and he's clearly not been exposed to it. To an outsider, its a completely benign symbol.

We all understand it, but if you've grown up in Spain or Argentina, you may associate a gorilla with something else entirely, like strength or power.

Racism exists all over the world but it isn't necessarily conveyed in the same way. And, given the context of the post, his innocence is clear. There was no racism intended and anyone feigning offence needs to grow up.

 

[zizou81]

Since when has gorilla been a racist gesture in any wester country? I grew up in Canada, lived in both UK and Australia for long periods of time....Monkey or Chimp is commonly used as a derogatory racist animal reference. People are becoming way too sensitive and want to censor everything. Its ridiculous.

Im also a visible minority. Have asian heritage. Latinos/Hispanics/South Americans get away with slanting their eyes in pics and say this is an endearing thing to do. Now that is more directly racest then comparing someone to something mighty and strong like a gorilla/beast of a creature.

I call any athlete who is dominant or has a good game a beast regardless of their race. A gorilla emoji is a reference to beast u sensitive people!

Stop with this cancel culture BS. This is way too extreme.

Ironically Garnacho should have just left it on his social media but his crazy United PR team probably told him to take it down not because he felt guilty about it.

 

[SilentWitness]

Not really. You need to consider that Garnacho is not native to the UK. The imagery of a gorilla is hardly commonplace in relation to racism and he's clearly not been exposed to it. To an outsider, its a completely benign symbol.

We all understand it, but if you've grown up in Spain or Argentina, you may associate a gorilla with something else entirely, like strength or power.

Racism exists all over the world but it isn't necessarily conveyed in the same way. And, given the context of the post, his innocence is clear. There was no racism intended and anyone feigning offence needs to grow up.

Don't really agree. Despite the spanish language having words and phrases that could be considered racist overseas yet not in their own language, it's worldwide common knowledge that reference to any ape in regards to black people is just a no go. Someone posted a few pages back where Spanish and Argentinian fans had sent gorilla emojis to players to racially abuse them. They're aware and exposed to this connotation.

In the UK people also associate gorillas with strength and power. It's only due to the history and connotations that this can be perceived as a problem and it's better to avoid it.

That's why I also don't think there should be any ban and rather just education on how these things can be percieved.

 

[Brightonian]

I don't know if this has been said a million time and there's no way in hell I'm wading through this thread to find out, but it's pretty clear to me the reason Garnacho used a gorilla emoji (as opposed to a bear or whatever as some have said if the point was 'Onana is a beast') is that gorilla=goalkeeper. Surely not just me who already knew this? Because of the long arms, big hands, aura of not-to-be-fecked-with-ness.

In my school team the keeper (who was a bit mental as is traditional) used to hang off the crossbar and make monkey noises if he made a save. Again, monkeys/apes=goalkeeper.

Not forgiving the absolute blinding stupidity of it, or suggesting he shouldn't have been aware of the obvious racist connotations. Just surprised to see that some don't seem to get the reason he did choose gorilla.

 

[Tarrou]

I don't know if this has been said a million time and there's no way in hell I'm wading through this thread to find out, but it's pretty clear to me the reason Garnacho used a gorilla emoji (as opposed to a bear or whatever as some have said if the point was 'Onana is a beast') is that gorilla=goalkeeper. Surely not just me who already knew this? Because of the long arms, big hands, aura of not-to-be-fecked-with-ness.

In my school team the keeper (who was a bit mental as is traditional) used to hang off the crossbar and make monkey noises if he made a save. Again, monkeys/apes=goalkeeper.

Not forgiving the absolute blinding stupidity of it, or suggesting he shouldn't have been aware of the obvious racist connotations. Just surprised to see that some don't seem to get the reason he did choose gorilla.

I don't think that's the reason as he used one for Maguire as well

in any case, pretty much everyone agrees there was no malicious intent and I'm optimistic nothing will come of it

 

[CallyRed]

Garnacho should have added a disclaimer to the post that the gorilla emoji has been used to indicate strength.

 

[duffer]

Just surprised to see that some don't seem to get the reason he did choose gorilla.

Everyone knows why he picked a Gorilla.

I know you said you won't read the thread but zero people think he picked a Gorilla for any other reason than some version of "it's a strong, cool, beastly animal".

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don't know if this has been said a million time and there's no way in hell I'm wading through this thread to find out, but it's pretty clear to me the reason Garnacho used a gorilla emoji (as opposed to a bear or whatever as some have said if the point was 'Onana is a beast') is that gorilla=goalkeeper. Surely not just me who already knew this? Because of the long arms, big hands, aura of not-to-be-fecked-with-ness.

In my school team the keeper (who was a bit mental as is traditional) used to hang off the crossbar and make monkey noises if he made a save. Again, monkeys/apes=goalkeeper.

Not forgiving the absolute blinding stupidity of it, or suggesting he shouldn't have been aware of the obvious racist connotations. Just surprised to see that some don't seem to get the reason he did choose gorilla.

He didn’t use it for anything to do with the position Onana plays. Hence he used two emojis, one for Onana and one for Maguire.

He used it because of the specific meaning that emoji has. The same meaning it is used by millions of people all over the world, every day. Strong and powerful.

 

[Doracle]

He posted a photo of 4 teammates, one of which was black. If you think that's racist, then I suspect that's your own subconscious speaking.

I don’t think it’s racist but what I think isn’t the test. It should be pretty self-evident to anyone with a brain what was going to happen here. As I said, just take the hit for the naivety/stupidity and move on.

 

[Adisa]

It wasn't racist, end off. We run the risk of belittling racism when we go down this path.

 

[fallengt]

Garnacho grew up in Spain. Spanish people know comparing black people to gorillas is something racists have done for a long time. Their fans do it enough to black players in La Liga. It has nothing to do with UK culture being sensitive to this. Everybody around the entire world knows the connotations here.

I don't think Garnacho meant it in a racist way, but he has to know how posting something like that is going to look. Yes, I do think he is dumb for posting this.

Gorillas are not monkeys. Not even same species
It's animal-racist to think they are the same

 

[Taribo's Gap]

man is a primate. Its the pathetic world of social media thats turned a beautiful animal as one thats now deem inferior and so racist per se. If such an emoji is used to insult i get it thats deemed as racist but if used to complement, comparing the strongest primate, the Gorilla to a man,s power how is that then racist. I standby my post, its a crazy stupid, hypersensitive do gooding world.

I mean...you're starting to get there.

So you think fans sent gorilla emojis to Alaba, Koman, Tchouameni, Kolo Muani, Saka, Lewis Hamilton etc. they should have taken them as compliments? This is the manner is which it is most commonly used or causing controversy:

High school basketball
Shaquille O'neal
AFL Player
Alex Iwobi
Balotelli
Lebron Controversy
Serena Williams
Michelle Obama and More

I'll end with this one to show that it's not exactly a new social media sensitivity and this has long been known as part of the dark side of Ali's legacy. In one of the most famous fights in history, I don't exactly think Ali was meant to be complimenting Joe Frazier. Joe Frazier was a snowflake before it was cool! Even though this happened in the 70's, look at how a little boy felt about it then:

"Long after their bitter rivalry was over, Joe Frazier still seethed. The things that Muhammad Ali said about him over the course of their three epic battles carried a sting that lasted longer than any combination. He’d called him ignorant. He called him dumb. And he mockingly punched a toy gorilla that he likened to Frazier.

The gorilla comment in particular did the lasting damage, as it moved Frazier’s then-young son Marvis to tears. “Smokin’ Joe” never forgot. Years later, legendary sports scribe Jerry Izenberg found himself as an intermediary in attempting to make peace between the two icons.

“Tell him I didn’t mean it. Tell him I apologize if I hurt his family,” Izenberg recalls Ali imploring him to tell Frazier, who responded: “Call him back and say I have a message for him: he can take his apology and stick it as far up his (backside) as it’ll go.”

People are calling it dumb because there is no way he is not at least aware of the very recent Bernardo Silva and Cavani situations, which were ridiculous, and the FA's responses to them, regardless of his cultural upbringing. I think some of the disconnect here might be the degree to which people think gorilla imagery is a commonplace racial pejorative versus a compliment. I do think cultural background, context and nuance and the quickness with which Garnacho deleted the post should be considered, but it is a bit weird seeing people act like the majority of the time a gorilla or ape is invoked with regard to a black person, it is meant to be praising them and therefore any such other association makes the person who notices or winces at it the actual racist. Admittedly, I am not on social media much, so if that is how people are predominately using it with regard to black people these days it is news to me.

 

[tenpoless]

The real crime I think is the fact that he prefers Kong than Godzilla.

 

[Tarrou]

man is a primate. Its the pathetic world of social media thats turned a beautiful animal as one thats now deem inferior and so racist per se. If such an emoji is used to insult i get it thats deemed as racist but if used to complement, comparing the strongest primate, the Gorilla to a man,s power how is that then racist. I standby my post, its a crazy stupid, hypersensitive do gooding world.

nah it's all the racists who did that

 

[Oo0AahCantona]

Fact of the matter is, there was clearly no racist intent or context. In a perfect world, that would be able to be differentiated clearly and we wouldn't be having to have these conversations that seem overly petty and obtuse where we talk about "PC culture" and being overly sensitive.

The other fact of the matter is unfortunately because of how racists have operated and developed over the last 15 years in particular, mirroring the rise and adaptability of public social platforming, we aren't able to have conversations over intent or context anymore because that has been used as an overt strategy to obfuscate actual racists and their behaviour like a tower shield.

We are now left in a world where he should have been given the training to avoid the situation altogether and whether or not he gets any sort of punishment, you just cant do anything in a public setting where there is potential for this to happen without expecting repercussions, that's just a fact, and its not because of the PC police, its because of racists.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I mean...you're starting to get there.

So you think fans sent gorilla emojis to Alaba, Koman, Tchouameni, Kolo Muani, Saka, Lewis Hamilton etc. they should have taken them as compliments? This is the manner is which it is most commonly used or causing controversy:

High school basketball
Shaquille O'neal
AFL Player
Alex Iwobi
Balotelli
Lebron Controversy
Serena Williams
Michelle Obama and More

I'll end with this one to show that it's not exactly a new social media sensitivity and this has long been known as part of the dark side of Ali's legacy. In one of the most famous fights in history, I don't exactly think Ali was meant to be complimenting Joe Frazier. Joe Frazier was a snowflake before it was cool! Even though this happened in the 70's, look at how a little boy felt about it then:

"Long after their bitter rivalry was over, Joe Frazier still seethed. The things that Muhammad Ali said about him over the course of their three epic battles carried a sting that lasted longer than any combination. He’d called him ignorant. He called him dumb. And he mockingly punched a toy gorilla that he likened to Frazier.

The gorilla comment in particular did the lasting damage, as it moved Frazier’s then-young son Marvis to tears. “Smokin’ Joe” never forgot. Years later, legendary sports scribe Jerry Izenberg found himself as an intermediary in attempting to make peace between the two icons.

“Tell him I didn’t mean it. Tell him I apologize if I hurt his family,” Izenberg recalls Ali imploring him to tell Frazier, who responded: “Call him back and say I have a message for him: he can take his apology and stick it as far up his (backside) as it’ll go.”

People are calling it dumb because there is no way he is not at least aware of the very recent Bernardo Silva and Cavani situations, which were ridiculous, and the FA's responses to them, regardless of his cultural upbringing. I think some of the disconnect here might be the degree to which people think gorilla imagery is a commonplace racial pejorative versus a compliment. I do think cultural background, context and nuance and the quickness with which Garnacho deleted the post should be considered, but it is a bit weird seeing people act like the majority of the time a gorilla or ape is invoked with regard to a black person, it is meant to be praising them and therefore any such other association makes the person who notices or winces at it the actual racist. Admittedly, I am not on social media much, so if that is how people are predominately using it with regard to black people these days it is news to me.

Good post.

 

[m1tch]

The pitfalls of social media. Everyone should just close down their profiles and go back to speaking to people they actually know and trust.

 

[Sassy Colin]

If you look at Garnacho's reaction to the penalty save, it is more than clear he has massive respect for Onana.

 

[Bwuk]

Typical cancel culture nonsense.

Look at Garnachos reaction to him saving it. Look at Onanas response.

He's not meant it to be racist, and nor has the recipient taken it that way.

If he gets a ban it's an absolute shambles.

 

[gaffs]

How does anyone, in 2023, not realize that using a gorilla emoji to describe a black person will be seen as inappropriate.

It was only a couple of weeks ago Napoli's social media channels were calling Osimhen a coconut.

Regardless of the intention, have some awareness.

 

[redshaw]

I'd hope the FA can take into account it's an emoji for Harry Maguire and Onana showing strength of character which is exactly what it was. Garnacho should emphasizing that if it gets brought up.

I guess if he used a lion some would say it has connotations which Africa and somehow racial and he should be using an animal native to Argentina or UK instead.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I mean...you're starting to get there.

So you think fans sent gorilla emojis to Alaba, Koman, Tchouameni, Kolo Muani, Saka, Lewis Hamilton etc. they should have taken them as compliments? This is the manner is which it is most commonly used or causing controversy:

High school basketball
Shaquille O'neal
AFL Player
Alex Iwobi
Balotelli
Lebron Controversy
Serena Williams
Michelle Obama and More

I'll end with this one to show that it's not exactly a new social media sensitivity and this has long been known as part of the dark side of Ali's legacy. In one of the most famous fights in history, I don't exactly think Ali was meant to be complimenting Joe Frazier. Joe Frazier was a snowflake before it was cool! Even though this happened in the 70's, look at how a little boy felt about it then:

"Long after their bitter rivalry was over, Joe Frazier still seethed. The things that Muhammad Ali said about him over the course of their three epic battles carried a sting that lasted longer than any combination. He’d called him ignorant. He called him dumb. And he mockingly punched a toy gorilla that he likened to Frazier.

The gorilla comment in particular did the lasting damage, as it moved Frazier’s then-young son Marvis to tears. “Smokin’ Joe” never forgot. Years later, legendary sports scribe Jerry Izenberg found himself as an intermediary in attempting to make peace between the two icons.

“Tell him I didn’t mean it. Tell him I apologize if I hurt his family,” Izenberg recalls Ali imploring him to tell Frazier, who responded: “Call him back and say I have a message for him: he can take his apology and stick it as far up his (backside) as it’ll go.”

People are calling it dumb because there is no way he is not at least aware of the very recent Bernardo Silva and Cavani situations, which were ridiculous, and the FA's responses to them, regardless of his cultural upbringing. I think some of the disconnect here might be the degree to which people think gorilla imagery is a commonplace racial pejorative versus a compliment. I do think cultural background, context and nuance and the quickness with which Garnacho deleted the post should be considered, but it is a bit weird seeing people act like the majority of the time a gorilla or ape is invoked with regard to a black person, it is meant to be praising them and therefore any such other association makes the person who notices or winces at it the actual racist. Admittedly, I am not on social media much, so if that is how people are predominately using it with regard to black people these days it is news to me.

Good post. I'd give it a like if I could.

 

[erikcred]

He didn’t use it for anything to do with the position Onana plays. Hence he used two emojis, one for Onana and one for Maguire.

He used it because of the specific meaning that emoji has. The same meaning it is used by millions of people all over the world, every day. Strong and powerful.

How could you possibly know that?

So many posters seem to think they know exactly what was in Garnacho's mind. Only he and now, probably Onana know the truth. Regardless of the intent, the tweet was silly. If the FA feel so strongly about it, they should just give him a fine and move on. And maybe he has to take some classes or something.

 

[Escobar]

Garnacho should have added a disclaimer to the post that the gorilla emoji has been used to indicate strength.

Is that so hard to get? Of course he did not want to say he is a bloody monkey

 

[Champ]

If he was using it for strength, why not use the strength emoji??

(You know, the one that comes up when you search strength when looking for an emoji? The flexing bicep one? )

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

He’ll almost certainly get banned, but for being careless rather than being racist. Anyone with a brain cell knows what he meant, he had absolutely zero intention of racially abusing his team mate but as a professional footballer he has a responsibility and unfortunately for him he’s failed in his responsibilities on this occasion.

 

[JustinC00]

That's nonsense.

I'm sure Onana meant his post, but you don't want players feeling the pressure of having to let their teammates off the hook for dumb posts on social media.

He wouldn't need to let his teammate "off the hook" if it wasn't for the old fart FA projecting their own racism onto an 19 year old from Spain. Punishing someone for using an animal emoji is the corporate equivalent of the FA saying "I have a black friend I can't be racist". Also Onana wasn't the only person in the picture Garnacho attached. Maguire was in the center of it too hugging Onana, Garnacho used 2 gorilla emojis so the FA would also be saying using a gorilla emoji about a white person is racist. So are we at the point where using animal emojis just means your racist?

 

[CallyRed]

If he was using it for strength, why not use the strength emoji??

(You know, the one that comes up when you search strength when looking for an emoji? The flexing bicep one? )

Agreed. Though what colour bicep should he have used?

 

[Hugh Jass]

Stupid really. facing a ban.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

He's not meant it to be racist, and nor has the recipient taken it that way.

Yes, fine. And I don't see any reasonable people accusing the kid of being a flaming racist.

But part (and parcel) of what many are now discussing is the fact that neither of those factors (his intention, Onana's response) makes this a non-issue: that's the idea, right? Nothing to see here, he didn't mean it as a racist comment, and Onana didn't take it as such, so just move on.

The issue goes beyond the intention and the response in a particular case. Surely you see how the logic you employ here fails in the bigger picture?

Is lack of malicious intent an excuse for using racist language or imagery? (No, obviously not.)

Is the fact that the recipient of racist language or imagery doesn't take offence an excuse? (No, obviously not.)

Look, I have no time for people calling the kid a racist - that's ridiculous. Just as it was ridiculous to call Cavani a racist. The discussion transcends the particular incidents (and the intent/reaction in those incidents) - and it isn't helpful or productive in the wider discussion if people just insist on/refuse to move beyond: "He obviously didn't mean anything by it!"

Of course he didn't, we all know that, but that isn't - and shouldn't - be the end of the discussion.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

How could you possibly know that?

So many posters seem to think they know exactly what was in Garnacho's mind. Only he and now, probably Onana know the truth. Regardless of the intent, the tweet was silly. If the FA feel so strongly about it, they should just give him a fine and move on. And maybe he has to take some classes or something.

Because he used two emojis and shared a photo featuring both Onana and Maguire.

 

[Brightonian]

Everyone knows why he picked a Gorilla.

I know you said you won't read the thread but zero people think he picked a Gorilla for any other reason than some version of "it's a strong, cool, beastly animal".

Sure, but then people have rightly asked why not bear or whatever. My theory being in my original post.

 

[erikcred]

Because he used two emojis and shared a photo featuring both Onana and Maguire.

Half the team was in the image. Maybe he meant two other players. Maybe he meant Onana was as strong as two gorillas. Maybe the word "gorilla" can be decoded from the jersey numbers of the players in the picture. Or maybe he actually subscribes to these types of depictions with racist motives. Who the feck knows? None of us, that's for sure.

In fact, regardless of what the FA do, I think we should fine him simply for being too stupid to learn a lesson from what happened to Cavani.

 

[Belisarius]

The real crime I think is the fact that he prefers Kong than Godzilla.

Every sensible person knows Kong is the King and Godzilla's a punk.

 

[adexkola]

He wouldn't need to let his teammate "off the hook" if it wasn't for the old fart FA projecting their own racism onto an 19 year old from Spain. Punishing someone for using an animal emoji is the corporate equivalent of the FA saying "I have a black friend I can't be racist". Also Onana wasn't the only person in the picture Garnacho attached. Maguire was in the center of it too hugging Onana, Garnacho used 2 gorilla emojis so the FA would also be saying using a gorilla emoji about a white person is racist. So are we at the point where using animal emojis just means your racist?

I'm not sure how anything in this post applies to what I said

It's also clear you don't know what being racist means

 

[Chesterlestreet]

As for possible/potential sanctions from the FA: should he face a ban?

No.

Cavani shouldn't have been banned either.

Such sanctions only provide fuel to reactionary cnuts who can then cry "woke!" all the more loudly.

 

[zizou81]

The fact that we cant even agree here whether its racist or not (even if unintentional) just goes to show how unclear this is. Therefore the FA shouldnt punish but take this opportunity to educate. Thats all that should happen.

If they fine/ban him then it will be a slipper slope to censorship/ cancellation.

 

[djembatheking]

The fact that we cant even agree here whether its racist or not (even if unintentional) just goes to show how unclear this is. Therefore the FA shouldnt punish but take this opportunity to educate. Thats all that should happen.

If they fine/ban him then it will be a slipper slope to censorship/ cancellation.

Whats it got to do with Steven Gerrard?

 

[RedDevil@84]

How does anyone, in 2023, not realize that using a gorilla emoji to describe a black person will be seen as inappropriate.

Stop making up stuff. Garnacho didn't "describe" anyone with a gorilla emoji. And the pic had Maguire and other players as well. You don't get to pick and choose who an emoji applies to. He deleted it, because some people will start attributing the gorilla emoji to the black person in the pic.