Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

[Simbo]

Jordan seems a popular destination for Palestinian refugees.

What even is Jordan's stance on all this? They seem to not get mentioned at all. Don't they control more Palestinian land than Israel ever has? Do they get away with just staying completely neutral?

 

[massi83]

For the record: unfortunately many Palestinians are dying too. But in terms of interpreting how this has affected Israel, it's just insane. My napkin maths may be wrong here but it'd be equivalent to about 25,000-30,000 Americans dying in 1 weekend?

These kind of calculations are bizarre to say the least. Now let's do the math for China and San Marino. What does it tell us? Nothing, nothing at all.

 

[VorZakone]

These kind of calculations are bizarre to say the least. Now let's do the math for China and San Marino. What does it tell us? Nothing, nothing at all.

Israelis themselves were saying this is their 9/11. Numerical context is not necessarily bizarre.

 

[neverdie]

How much of an influence is the religious aspect in all of this? From my limited understanding (I think I watched a vox YouTube series) one of the things that seemed to come out of it was the Islamic insistence that there is no negotiation. The only solution is the destruction of Israel in its entirety.

it’s not a great starting point for any negotiations.

If that were true, you wouldn't have Fatah. It's the same religion. Just a regional difference and general timelapse (sectarian issues) after 2000. It's not a religious distinction, basically.

 

[Raoul]

What even is Jordan's stance on all this? They seem to not get mentioned at all. Don't they control more Palestinian land than Israel ever has? Do they get away with just staying completely neutral?

They're neutral. Hamas is banned there and they are friendly with the US and Israel, so King Abdullah likely wants no part of any of this given the amount of Palestinians already there (including his own wife).

 

[africanspur]

Is there any Middle East country that will accept a significant number of Palestinians? I read in the past that Egypt does not want any Palestinians, but perhaps they will accept to let them pass if their destination is some other country. But I don't know which country that could be. Jordan? Iran?

There are very literally millions of Palestinians across various neighbouring Arab countries. Egypt has hundreds of thousands of Palestinians.

 

[NYAS]

The Indian love for Israel online:

Are they Narendra bots? Or real people?

 

[neverdie]

Everything was better than the last 48 hours and it's only the start. It will really blow up when Israel sends in ground troops and no one doubts that anymore.

They've been here before (Gazans). It's a clusterfeck of a humanitarian disaster but there cannot be a society more used to this sort of action than Gaza (probably in history).

 

[RoyH1]

All what is happening a so incredibly tragic. There’s just an inevitable sense of all of it getting worse too.

 

[Ekkie Thump]

Israelis themselves were saying this is their 9/11. Numerical context is not necessarily bizarre.

You can only hope their response won't be as disastrous as that of the US. I don't have much confidence.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The Indian love for Israel online:

Are they Narendra bots? Or real people?

Imagine a country where Fox News is the mainstream media.

 

[africanspur]

What even is Jordan's stance on all this? They seem to not get mentioned at all. Don't they control more Palestinian land than Israel ever has? Do they get away with just staying completely neutral?

Are you suggesting that Jordan is a Palestinian state?

They've called for talks to stop the violence. They've also been quite explicit, including recently, that the peace deals bypassing Palestine aren't going to lead to lasting peace.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Are they Narendra bots? Or real people?

They are not bots, at least not all of them. They hate Muslims, be it in India or outside. A hypothetical Israeli led genocide will make them orgasmic, the sick ba***rds.

 

[owlo]

No country wants refugees, but given that this is an unprecedented emergency, the US should broker a deal with the Egyptians and UN. The Egyptians can broker their piece directly with Khaamas. The US can coordinate with the Israelis. Not saying this will happen, but it should given that we're about to see one of the biggest humanitarian catastrophes of our time.

It should, but there's absolutely no motivation for either Hamas or Egypt to allow it.

 

[Conor]

These kind of calculations are bizarre to say the least. Now let's do the math for China and San Marino. What does it tell us? Nothing, nothing at all.

It's driving me mad, 1000 people dead is 1000 people dead, these extrapolations and hypotheticals mean absolutely nothing.

 

[neverdie]

https://new.thecradle.co/articles/s...-with-israeli-shelling-palestinian-incursions

That's it then. Hezbollah have made an entry.

These variables would fundamentally alter the balance of power in West Asia. The Axis of Resistance will not stand by idly and allow an Israeli ground operation against Gaza's resistance - it will throw in new variables to confound and weaken the enemy.
If Tel Aviv - with western cover - decides to take this fight with the Palestinian resistance to the wall instead of striking a long overdue compromise and dialing back its occupation, other battle fronts will be opened against Israel's military forces. As to the method, form, and location of those new frontlines, there are countless possibilities that will be kept under wraps as the picture gets clearer.

 

[RedTiger]

Everything was better than the last 48 hours

For Israel. Everything was better for Israel but gaza hasn't changed one iota other than maybe getting to cook pasta once in a while.

 

[Raoul]

https://new.thecradle.co/articles/s...-with-israeli-shelling-palestinian-incursions

That's it then. Hezbollah have made an entry.

These are all from hours ago.

 

[Pintu]

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[Laurencio]

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Is Hamas purposefully trying to get Israel to completely wipe out Gaza? Is that their play here? Hoping that the Arab countries will be so outraged that they will pounce on Israel?

No country wants refugees, but given that this is an unprecedented emergency, the US should broker a deal with the Egyptians and UN. The Egyptians can broker their piece directly with Khaamas. The US can coordinate with the Israelis. Not saying this will happen, but it should given that we're about to see one of the biggest humanitarian catastrophes of our time.

I agree, they should, but they won't. People suck.

 

[owlo]

Careful if you choose to watch this. It's a difficult watch. I've not been sure if to post it. It has no violence or dead bodies, but it will speak to the emotional state in Israel currently, and why the response will be so brutal and so supported.

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The significant celebration of Hamas and anti jew violence by muslims is also feeding into anger in the diaspora who all know of victims, and is further driving hardline response. A lot of emotional wrecks out there.

 

[RedTiger]

Jordan seems a popular destination for Palestinian refugees.

Yeah, Jordanians fecking love them.

 

[neverdie]

These are all from hours ago.

Yeah, but it's the source I'm weary of. If it's coming from Cradle, it's almost always accurate. They promised Lebananese government they'd stay out unless skirmishes upon border, but we've just had them (and apparent odes toward "if they go beyond the wall, heavy, [which is surely going to happen], then they're joining for sure").

 

[Simbo]

Are you suggesting that Jordan is a Palestinian state?

They've called for talks to stop the violence. They've also been quite explicit, including recently, that the peace deals bypassing Palestine aren't going to lead to lasting peace.

I've seen historical maps of Palestine that include most of Jordan. Not sure if there's some sort of propaganda at play there. I.e. Israeli's trying to show its not just them or something.

 

[VorZakone]

https://new.thecradle.co/articles/s...-with-israeli-shelling-palestinian-incursions

That's it then. Hezbollah have made an entry.

Eh, no?

 

[owlo]

I've seen historical maps of Palestine that include most of Jordan. Not sure if there's some sort of propaganda at play there. I.e. Israeli's trying to show its not just them or something.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September Some background.

 

[Ragnar123]

For Israel. Everything was better for Israel but gaza hasn't changed one iota other than maybe getting to cook pasta once in a while.

That's pathos, not facts. The air strikes Gaza suffers right now would not have happened without the Stone Age barbarism. The upcoming invasion of Gaza with a potential humanitarian catastrophe would never happen. And what do you mean by "was better for Israel". You think Netanyahu and his right wing pals lose sleep over those dead kids? The ones who are responsible for the miserable life in Gaza are the ones least affected by this terror.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Jordan seems a popular destination for Palestinian refugees.

Nearly all the Palestinian origin people I've ever met had a Jordanian passport.

 

[frostbite]

There are very literally millions of Palestinians across various neighbouring Arab countries. Egypt has hundreds of thousands of Palestinians.

I have read that Palestinians supported the Islamists in Egypt, and for this reason Egypt today will not be keen to accept any Palestinians. Is this true?

 

[neverdie]

I've seen historical maps of Palestine that include most of Jordan. Not sure if there's some sort of propaganda at play there. I.e. Israeli's trying to show its not just them or something.

Jordan/WestBank, etc. Is true that Jordan had much of that area. Israelis do use it for propaganda to assert that no such thing as Palestine ever existed (which is nonsense) but Jordanian issues with Israel regarding the WB and more are very real. Just long suspended.

 

[owlo]

Nearly all the Palestinian origin people I've ever met had a Jordanian passport.

I believe if you have a Jordanian or Israeli passport you can move in and out of Israel freely, including through Ben Gurion, but if you have a jerusalem/residence card you can only enter and exit via Jordan. So it makes sense to grab Jordanian citizenship. I'm not sure of the mechanism for it, but assume its streamlined as you are correct, many hold it.

 

[neverdie]

Eh, no?

Going by what I'm reading, from reliable sources, it's basically done. They're just waiting for Israel to go into Gaza. We'll see.

 

[MDFC Manager]

The Indian love for Israel online:

Are they Narendra bots? Or real people?

Real, Muslim hating people. They'll cheer on anyone or anything that negatively affects muslims anywhere.

They share a particular lust for Israelis despite having no socio cultural link at all.

 

[pierrethesnack]

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I get it after what he experienced in government, but this guy is so bitter about the EU/Europe that they'll always be the villains in his mind.

 

[neverdie]

They share a particular lust for Israelis despite having no socio cultural link at all.

The type which obviously hates Pakistan and so extends that into Palestine. That being the only link.

 

[MDFC Manager]

I believe if you have a Jordanian or Israeli passport you can move in and out of Israel freely, including through Ben Gurion, but if you have a jerusalem/residence card you can only enter and exit via Jordan. So it makes sense to grab Jordanian citizenship. I'm not sure of the mechanism for it, but assume its streamlined as you are correct, many hold it.

Ah interesting. I've never tried to find out the reason or mechanism behind it.

 

[do.ob]

For Israel. Everything was better for Israel but gaza hasn't changed one iota other than maybe getting to cook pasta once in a while.

Talk about dehumanizing Palestinians and their suffering. But I guess it's easy to talk that way on the internet.

 

[Raoul]

Nearly all the Palestinian origin people I've ever met had a Jordanian passport.

That's been my experience when in Jordan as well. Most of them are completely integrated into Jordanian society to where one would have to ask them whether or not they are Palestinian to know.

 

[africanspur]

I've seen historical maps of Palestine that include most of Jordan. Not sure if there's some sort of propaganda at play there. I.e. Israeli's trying to show its not just them or something.

Some Israelis would love to ethnically cleanse the West Bank Palestinians and Jordan be the Palestinian state. Another variation of the three state solution.

There are millions of Palestinians in Jordan, some working and living normally, some in refugee camps.They outnumber the Jordanians.

 

[neverdie]

The air strikes Gaza suffers right now would not have happened without the Stone Age barbarism.

Stone Age Barbarism Gaza suffers would not have happened without Hamas stone age barbarism which would not have happened without Israeli stone age barbarism and so on. Yes. Long standing point of this conflict.

If you think Ukraine has the right to defend itself you have to undergo enormous mental gymnastics to condemn the Palestinians (in particular) here. Called that when the Ukrainian invasion kicked off and had a feeling it wouldn't extend into other, less white, conflicts.