Sorry my bad for not making it clear. When I’m saying the timing isn’t right - I’m basically saying it would take decades before any semblance of a chance of going toe to toe and even then you’re going to need support of say a Russia or some major leading nation.
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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Get it over and done with, I guess. We'll probably have a weak response on Twitter by a few poxy politicians during the aftermath and folk on here would justify all after hidding for a couple of days. Palestinians have never been in a weaker position.
Ahh right. My mistake then.
Who will then delete their tweets and issue an apology.
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It’s all SLBMs on the dolphins and ICBMs deep in hobbit holes. Strategic deterrence. And a bit of SPW. They was some noise about artillery but I’ve seen nothing to suggest that is true, and in any event would make zero sense. Israel’s nuclear mantra is and has always been strategic not tactical. It’s why they had to setup the B2 loan agreement some years ago to strike Iran if required
Russia supports Israel. More quietly than the US, but it’s quite clearly in their corner under Putin.
That’s simply a matter of retargeting.
There’s evidence of nuclear ordnance deliverable by strike aircraft. F-15s are nuclear capable & constitute a large portion of the Israeli air power.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they have nuclear-tipped artillery pieces, there’s anecdotal evidence they did decades ago. NATO had nuclear artillery pieces in Western Europe for the specific purpose of stopping Warsaw Pact heavy armor at places like the Fulda Gap. It’s not difficult at all to envision the Israelis having had the same throughout their history & still have some for that express purpose.
e - Here is the doctrine...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option
But it would be absolute lunacy to use any nuclear device of any yield on a location like Gaza.
Of course they do. Keep up.
I'm not saying they don't have the technological capability. It's a matter of doctrine. They are designed for an existential threat (against either the state or Jews), and even Netanyhu can't authorise them used as he wishes. Cold war MAD kinda thing. That wiki does mention artillery; I just said to my knowledge they have none. Tactical F-15 mounted nukes are also a possibility, but again a large security risk and I've not seen any evidence they have them now. (If they did, they wouldn't need the B2 conventional bunker busters) Proper nihilistic shit, but you can understand it after the Holocaust and Yom Kippur War etc.
That said, they could easily have all the old ones holed up in a bunker or something for a rainy day.
I forgot the Israeli doctrine earlier & inserted it after you replied / while you were replying.
There’s ample evidence that Israel’s nuclear doctrine of both tactical & strategic deterrence has aided them in not being invaded through true force for 50 years. A nation needs multiple levels of deliverable nuclear ordnance for that, not just strategic platforms.
Hopefully cool heads will remain in place forever regarding their use of them.
Also not sure if you are referring to the B-2 bomber specifically or the bunker buster bomb. We would most likely never sell an ally the bomber as it would be too destabilizing a weapon. The bunker buster bomb is equivalent to less than what was dropped on Hiroshima from a yield standpoint.
Sterilizing all the land west of the river Jordan to stick it to the Palestinians.
They surely have tactical devices on the ready. It makes sense in this region to use gravity bombs, easy and fast delivery for an AF with their experience.
If only Hitchens was still around.
How did the conversation even come to nukes? Israel is not going to drop a nuke in its own freaking backyard, those are unstable by nature and considering the geographic proximity of the regions, it basically amounts to self immolation by Israel. These aren’t big stretches of land.
This is my main thought process with climate change in a way. The ones who will initially be hit the worst are the poorer countries and thus mass migration is inevitable. I once said it to my friend: "What would you do if you and your families life was at risk? Its human nature to want to find a safe place in these circumstances". Its hard for us to conceive because, as you said, we have never seen it but the asylum seekers are doing nothing different than every other human would in their situation.
What we have now, even with Covid, will pale in comparison to climate change if the scientists are even 50% correct.
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This.
Nukes were never meant for the palestinians. Its meant for iran, turkey, egypt, saudi, russia, eu or anyone else who comes to the aid of palestine against israel.
Yea I noticed that after the fact. I absolutely agree. It's a really nihilistic outlook as I said. Quote from your wiki link below:
These days I feel it's directed at the superpowers who may or may not want to get involved. For those with the pipedream of the US etc attacking/supporting war against Israel; you only need to look at the fear with which they treat DPRK. It's never gonna happen.
I'm referring to the actual B2 bomber. It's a useage agreement that activates under certain circumstances only relating to Irans nuclear capability. Likely still US piloted. The problem with Israel striking Irans hardened targets is that they are outside their bombers capabilities whilst carrying large payload conventionals. (refuelling tankers would be in a terrible spot) If Israel were willing to use tactical nukes, this wouldn't be an issue. (Though I'm sure some kind of 'omg lend us this or we'll have to prep our nukes' kind of stick involved.)
It's a topic for another thread, but Sheffield Hallam did a study that 45% of the worlds polycarbon (key ingredient in modern solar panels) is being produced by Uighur slaves/workers. China produces 75% of the worlds polycarbon. What the actual feck do you do about that from a moral standpoint?
I hope we can find a good technological solution to climate change, because we're gonna be fecked.
If he was, it would probably end up being in the religion thread.If only Hitchens was still around.
He once co-edited a book with Edward Said and frequently wrote on this subject (e.g. in defence of Rashid Khalidi).
What western governments?
Outside of the US, Israel doesn’t care about them. Geopolitics has changed a lot.
Nothing happened to China after condemnation of Uighurs / HK, nothing will happen to Israel unless the US intervenes.
His commentary would be more than at home here.
Yeah I was just watching some of his old Palestine work on YouTube. I'm sure he would have plenty to say if he was still around.
Here he is on the 2009 Gaza war. Interesting parallels in terms of the political context of the moment -https://slate.com/news-and-politics...-a-model-of-the-future-palestinian-state.html
Why have right wing sentiments become stronger in Israel? Is it Netanyahu? Or were they always this extremist this century?
I can't explain how surreal it is to sit in your living room, and watch Law & Order with the big door-window open and hear the countless sounds of explosions from rockets landing/being intercepted by Iron Dome.
Russia states many times, officially, that it supports Palestine's right for sovereignty, Putin & Abbas meet on a regular basis, Russia officially disapproved of Trump's Jerusalem shenanigans etc. Russian foreign minister, Lavrov, met with Hamas multiple times, officially, as well as meeting with Riyad al-Maliki just a little over a week ago in Moscow.
It's not in Israel's corner at all — but neither it is in Palestinian one. It uses it, like any other conflict that doesn't directly involve Russia, as a way to establish itself as a still relevant world power — and usually a one that's on the other side than USA is. In this case, with USA openly supporting Israel, Russia tries to perform the role of this great peace negotiator that would somehow magically solve the issue.
There are certain demographic trends which have favored the growth of the right in recent years (e.g. religious families tend to be bigger than secular, and the wave of migrants that arrived with the fall of the Soviet Union tended to lean right). By far the most common reason you’ll hear is the impact of the suicide attacks of the 2nd intifada. That was when the peace camp lost the argument in Israel. And if the intifada didn’t turn you into an outright right-winger, it still likely made you indifferent to a degree to the plight of the Palestinians and extremely wary of making the type of sacrifices demanded by the peace camp. Finally, Israelis will argue that withdrawal from southern Lebanon (2000) and Gaza (2005) facilitated the growing presence of Iranian-armed militias on their immediate frontiers and led to the rocket wars, making the prospect of withdrawal from the West Bank unthinkable for many of those still not ideologically committed to the occupation.
How much is the Israeli side bombing Gaza tonight ?
It can state whatever it wants, and will obviously try to play both sides for its own benefit, but it's undeniable that under Putin, they've drifted far closer to Israel. This is a good article from about 6 weeks ago: https://imrussia.org/en/analysis/3256-the-tightrope-walk-of-russian-israeli-relations
Quote below from Putin 2 days ago. A far cry from 20 years ago:
" "I would like to ask my colleagues to comment on the current situation in the Middle East, I mean the escalated Palestinian-Israeli conflict – this is happening in the immediate vicinity of our borders and directly affects our security interests," "
Putin has had to out of necessity to coordinate more with Netenyahu once the Russians went into Syria and the Israeli went after Iranian backed targets inside Syria.
Is it far from you ? Are you safe ?Cheers.
Nah Putin just likes Jews/Israel. It's always been strangely personal for him. He donates a lot personally too, and is harsh on anti-semitism.
Could be because some oligarchs are Jews (Abramovich). Though he had bad relationships with the likes of Berezovsky and Khodorkovsky.
Yeah I guess Jews who stood up for themselves against Nazis and got what they did knowing full well the consequences deserve no sympathy.
As someone else here said "why start a war when you can't finish it"
What's your source for this ?
They don't have a government, they are run by a radical terror organization who don't give two shits about the people of Gaza. If they would they wouldn't have been using them as a human shield.