Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
- Thread starter esmufc07
- Start date
Doh.
Um, yes they were.
The Associated Press reported the Dresden attacks as 'terror bombing' at the time.
In press conferences reporters criticised the British Air Commodore for targeting civilians.
Questions were asked of the Government in the House of Commons.
Questions were also asked of the UK by the Roosevelt Administration.
All of which led Churchill at the end of March 1945 to write to the Chief of the Air Staff:
"It seems to me that the moment has come when the question of bombing of German cities simply for the sake of increasing the terror, though under other pretexts, should be reviewed. Otherwise we shall come into control of an utterly ruined land ... The destruction of Dresden remains a serious query against the conduct of Allied bombing. I am of the opinion that military objectives must henceforward be more strictly studied in our own interests than that of the enemy."
You have to laugh at this point.
The Israelis are already in conflict with both given the rise in recent attacks in northern Israel / southern Lebanon. If they start a full on ground war in Gaza, I would imagine Hezbollah would ramp up attacks. As for a broader conflict, I think that would affect the US more than anyone since an attack from Hezbollah, further attacks from Yemen (such as the intercepted missiles by a US ship the other day) or perhaps something from Iran or Syria (there are presently US troops in both Iraq and Syria), would probably draw the US into a broader conflict.
We are at an incredibly precarious and sensitive moment that transcends Israel and Palestine. It has a whiff of 1914 to it.
Shocking post. "Ready to murder 2.3m people"
they'd just pocket the money. Like Arafat did
here is an example.
Do IDF even have any experience of ground operations even at a lot smaller scale than this; obviously other than harrassing people in West Bank and sniping civilians?
Neither side do since they haven't faced one another in such extreme circumstances in generations. This is going to be a full on bloody war with significant casualties on both sides.
Thanks for explaining that twice mate
I think I am gonna leave off the sarcasm in any posts in this thread going forwardmost recently is their failure in Lebanon 2006.
To paraphrase the mindset of a famous Japanese admiral in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor, the thing Hamas should fear is they have only awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve. I really wonder if the people in the top echelons of Hamas are even thinking about that prospect right now with every day that comes forward.
Well, yes. See the 2006 Lebanon War.
People love to play dumb with whole reaction line
A lot depends on how they fight, which we just don’t know. We’re seeing a level of brutality from Israel we’ve not seen before. If it’s a fires based assault the calculus significantly shifts.
Israel see this as a fight for their very survival. It is the only Jewish homeland with hostile neighbours wanting to destroy it.
I think there is a real possibility they will go for Iran.
I wouldn't even put it past them if to use a Nuke as a last resort
They're not an ideology, they are an organization - just like Al-Qaeda and ISIS were, both of which are now decimated because the US and its allies committed themselves to doing it.
As for the other point, they won't need to ask each Palestinian if they're a card carrying member of Hamas. They will simply kill anyone who shoots at them and continue gobbling up territory as they go. Once they secure the northern districts, they will gradually move further south. Members of Hamas will probably fight from tunnels and through suicide bombers (a previous Hamas tactic), but they won't be able to win if they are outgunned from each of land, air, and sea, with nowhere to run since Gaza is cut off.
Sure. If they largely ethnically cleanse the area, nobody will remember the Palestinian cause in 200 years bar the history books. Perhaps the US could set aside a new Indian territory for them.
Someone might correct me on this but i think the last time IDF was involved in any large scale ground operations was back in 2006 in the Libanon war.
????? Israel have shown no desire to escalate with Iran or even with their proxies. They have declined a first strike on hezbollah too. They don’t even have the capacity to “go for Iran” -its fantasy stuff. Their nuclear doctrine prohibits using them in this situation. Youd need a) the Samson doctrine (existential threat to Israel after conventional forces defeated) or b) the nihilistic option. To bring down the world after a 2nd holocaust.
The question is simply how they prosecute the ground war.
I mean they have 45 million mini city that they train in. It's pretty much what they've trained for, the eventual excuse to storm Gaza and steal more land.
Well over 150k at the London march today. Hardly makes the news...
If some people posted about the Israelis in the same manner some of you have been recently posting about the Palestinians there would be hell to pay....
And who will be holding these rallies?
Literally is on bbc homepage. Headline is the actual war though (quite rightly)
They're going after Hamas members and/or other fighters who push back against the invasion (a vast majority of which will be Hamas and Islamic Jihad). Non combatant Palestinians have been given a 10 day notice that there will be fighting in those areas, so its hard to make the case the Israelis are going after them.
What about the aid agencies of various stripes that have said the warnings are meaningless to many stuck in the North? Comments from IDF that they would be treated as Hamas collaborators and the increase in bombing is vile.
Does somewhat feel like ethnic cleansing though. Making their lives such a misery that escape becomes imperative, then making sure theyll have nothing to want to return to. My reading is that’s been somewhat part of Israeli strategy since begin in 1977 and been accelerated especially in the last decade or so. Perhaps @2cents has something to share on this as I’m particularly bad at placing sources.
That's the tragedy of it. Some won't be able to move, and yet the war will take place either way as the Israelis are committed to going in.
Evil Isis like Hamas attack civilians in a village in Israel.
Oh..its actually Jewish settlers..
Oh..its actually Jewish settlers..
Israel is just a military outpost of the USA and would not be behaving like they do without the Americans support. They will never have peace if they don't recognise the rights of Palestinians to statehood. The settlers are as much or even worse a terrorist as Hamas. Settler violence has been going on for a long time without media coverage.
Yea there was some rueful sarcasm there, hence reference to the US Indian territory. I think it’s been their plan for a while, wait i5 out, erode support and the amount people care, and just cleanse them by “expelling” them. It’s definitely the current terrorist tactic in the West Bank. I think that if anybody seriously wants to broker peace and make a 2 state solution then both sides need to hear some home truths which will be difficult. It’s not going back to the 1967 borders, Jerusalem needs a delicate deal, and Israel cannot keep empowering terrorist settlers and ministers. Palestinians need security from terror too. That said, it would need to be impressed on Palestinians that any militant action against their neighbours will likely result in invasion and I’m not sure anybody sees the majority of their leadership as honest brokers with enough control to prevent it, or to prevent a pa,edginess becoming another Iranian proxy. Either Israel or Hamas generally kill any hope.
Why would we "give back" our lands? This isn't the West Bank. This is the south of Israel. If they attacked Tel Aviv and pepople fled, should we have given them Tel Aviv?
Not sure who is embarrassing himself here.
You are equating the elected government of a democratic state with Hamas which most western countries classify as a terrorist organisation.
https://www.azquotes.com/author/41529-Sir_Arthur_Harris_1st_Baronet
Here is summary of bomber Harris most famous quotes.
He deliberately targeted German inner cities, not for destroying military targets but for terror.
At the end Churchill rewarded him with medals and he was even knighted.
The world has rarely seen evil cnuts of the level of Churchill.
You were arguing that because Hamas was democratically elected, then the people that elected them are to be held accountable. Now you're saying that same logic doesn't apply to Israel?
For what it's worth, the people of Israel should not be held accountable for the actions of their government. Much like Palestinians shouldn't be held accountable for theirs. Especially given that the people of Gaza haven't had a say in who governs them in nearly 20 years.
Without the support of the US Israel wouldn't exit. Their neighbors would have eradicated them for a long time.
While I don't condone their actions and consider this whole settlement program an huge mistake, what you are saying is just outrageous. Especially in the context of the recent October 7th attacks.
Where do settlers kill hundreds of young people partying, burn and behead babies, rape women next to their killed husbands or bfs?
My point was Gazans voted for am organisation which has the extermination of the State Israel written in their charter since the beginning. That's a huge difference to the government of Israel which made many mistakes but doesn't want the extermination of all Palestinians.
Again, the Hamas must have strong support within Gaza. Otherwise they couldn't clinge to power so long, build a vast tunnel system underneath the city, contrive, construct thousands and thousands of missiles that there fire in densely populated urban area on Israel. It's