Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

[JagUTD]

The best thing for Palestinians in the immediate future might be to turn against Hamas if only to preserve their own futures.

Whether that's to provide information to Israeli forces about their positions or even as far as fighting against them (not necessarily alongside Israeli forces.)

Hamas is now past tense, it no longer exists but for a matter of timing.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

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An atrocity. Abhorrent.

God rest their souls.

 

[Raoul]

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Christ.

 

[owlo]

The best thing for Palestinians in the immediate future might be to turn against Hamas if only to preserve their own futures.

Whether that's to provide information to Israeli forces about their positions or even as far as fighting against them (not necessarily alongside Israeli forces.)

Hamas is now past tense, it no longer exists but for a matter of timing.

Unfortunately that’s practic impossible.

 

[MoskvaRed]

China are no longer isolationist and are on a charm offensive with the Muslim world over the last couple of years. They want a multi polar world and they want to be one of those poles, they know the country that brokers an actual peace deal will have immeasurable goodwill from civilian Muslims for the foreseeable future.

This is all my own opinion though after having talked to chinese Hui Muslims about the direction that China is currently taking.

Thanks. It makes sense even if it requires some mental gymnastics given China’s policy towards its own Muslim Turkic population.

 

[Halftrack]

I don't necessarily agree with all of the things they do, but what do you suggest they do? They can't allow Hamas to grow, open trade or flee flow of any resource into Gaza. Hamas have no interest in just being liberated from Israel, so what is the solution here?

Netanyahu is on record wanting exactly that.

 

[Redplane]

Perhaps not all of Hamas leadership was aware of the attack.

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Seems like the only way out of this mess is for those elements of Hamas who did not agree to this to create an alliance internally to hold those people to account. Especially if it still enjoys the significant support of the Palestinian people it did before. It does seem likely however Hezbollah could use that as a way to show Hamas is weak. Given a choice between the two though: wouldn't Netanyahu prefer a stronger Hamas to a stronger Hezbollah? And if yes, then even more questions should be asked about his government's security failures.

 

[utdalltheway]

These kibbutzim that are referenced in the various reports; are they in Israel or ?

 

[NicolaSacco]

The pro-Israel lobby on the Caf are having a bit of a mare, to be honest.

I’m very much not part of them, but what on earth do you think you are adding here? Please just don’t post if you have no opinion beyond claiming someone you disagree with is ‘having a mare’

 

[owlo]

An atrocity. Abhorrent.

God rest their souls.

God bless you. I hope your family and friends in the region remain safe and well.

 

[2cents]

These kibbutzim that are referenced in the various reports; are they in Israel or ?

In Israel.

 

[owlo]

Mamukas offer is serious apparently and being considered. Likely partly because of how hard the Russians are hunting them, but it would be some asset to Israel.

 

[Mike Smalling]

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This is getting out of hand. First everyone has to have exactly the same opinion on all the covid measures, even in hindsight. Then the Ukraine war that has no nuance. Now the plight of the Palestinians that's been ongoing for more than 50 years has to be viewed from the singular side even by football clubs in England.

Totally agree. Why must a professional sports league take a position on a centuries old geopolitical conflict? There literally is no point. It would be totally meaningless.

 

[VorZakone]

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[NicolaSacco]

These kibbutzim that are referenced in the various reports; are they in Israel or ?

I think Israel withdrew from all settlements in Gaza in 2006, so if you’re talking about areas where fighting has taken place then yes definitely in Israel not Gaza.

 

[Vitro]

I suspect we're being gaslit with the decapitated babies story.

Why? Don’t think Hamas are capable? Perhaps they just rocked the babies and children to sleep?

 

[adexkola]

Rightly or wrongly this is being viewed as a 9/11 style event for Israel, so that’s why. I wish they wouldn’t, but let’s not pretend we can’t see the reasoning.

The reasoning is extremely flawed.

I don't deny this is new territory for Israel. It does illustrate the bubble many in the country have been living in, and that bubble has been shattered. It's not going back to normal for many years to come.

Seems like the only way out of this mess is for those elements of Hamas who did not agree to this to create an alliance internally to hold those people to account. Especially if it still enjoys the significant support of the Palestinian people it did before. It does seem likely however Hezbollah could use that as a way to show Hamas is weak. Given a choice between the two though: wouldn't Netanyahu prefer a stronger Hamas to a stronger Hezbollah? And if yes, then even more questions should be asked about his government's security failures.

Huh

This is Israel's casus belli to escalate their apartheid.

You think some Palestinians going to Israel like "oh yeah, um, these are the 10 bastards who planned the attacks, all the others are dead, you can go home now" will change anything?

 

[owlo]

Totally agree. Why must a professional sports league take a position on a centuries old geopolitical conflict? There literally is no point. It would be totally meaningless.

Agree too. Especially in this instance. Sport should unite supporters of all creeds, not look to divide them.

 

[zaafi]

What if I told you that they're 1) who funded Hamas in the beginning and 2) are the main reason why it grows.

Netanyahu is on record wanting exactly that.

That's fair, but look how it went. He has failed his own country.

He may allow them to grow to a certain point for his own reasons, but there is no way he is going to allow an airport being built or important resources finding their way in. He doesn't want them to grow to the point where they are a genuine threat to Israel's existence.

 

[VorZakone]

Totally agree. Why must a professional sports league take a position on a centuries old geopolitical conflict? There literally is no point. It would be totally meaningless.

Agreed.

 

[hasanejaz88]

Incredibly sad to see an entire family killed by Hamas (though I'm still not buying the chopping off baby's heads news being spread), it is, and I repeat if anyone is still doubting my intentions, unjustifiable to kill innocent civilians.

Now, only if the same people mourning would've shown the same sadness when entire Palestinian families were being killed by the Israeli army over the past years. That's the part that annoys me and everyone who supports Palestinans. When it's them, no one gives/gave a sh*t.

 

[JPRouve]

What if I told you that they're 1) who funded Hamas in the beginning and 2) are the main reason why it grows.

It's a vicious cycle. Deep down I'm convinced that the atrocities that both side commit or allow are meant to maintain the political leaders in place, Hamas need the conflict to justify its existence and the israeli far right needs Hamas and terrorism in general to justify the current mainstream nature of their views and to stay in power. Everyone else is caught in the middle of that nonsense.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

They can't allow Hamas to grow, open trade or flee flow of any resource into Gaza.

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[owlo]

It's a vicious cycle. Deep down I'm convinced that the atrocities that both side commit or allow are meant to maintain the political leaders in place, Hamas need the conflict to justify its existence and the israeli far right needs Hamas and terrorism in general to justify the current mainstream nature of their views and to stay in power. Everyone else is caught in the middle of that nonsense.

thats some theory, given the israeli far right are in the process of being booted out of government.

 

[Drizzle]

The pro-Israel lobby on the Caf are having a bit of a mare, to be honest.

There's reports of decapitated babies, and it's the pro-Israel lobby that's having a mare? OK.

 

[JagUTD]

Incredibly sad to see an entire family killed by Hamas, it is, and I repeat if anyone is still doubting me, unjustifiable to kill innocent civilians.

Now only if the same people mourning would've shown the same sadness when entire Palestinian families were being killed by the Israeli army over the past years. That's the part that annoys me and everyone who supports Palestinans. When it's them, no one gives a sh*t.

Almost. You almost had it.

There doesn't always have to be a "but" because all the "but" does it serve to negate your previous thoughts.

That applies to both sides and beyond where it's common for people to use this odd practice.

 

[JPRouve]

thats some theory, given the israeli far right are in the process of being booted out of government.

Because the rest which is the majority has had enough. Unless you are suggesting that the israeli far right didn't reach and maintain power by promoting tension?

 

[adexkola]

Almost. You almost had it.

There doesn't always have to be a "but" because all the "but" does it serve to negate your previous thoughts.

That applies to both sides and beyond where it's common for people to use this odd practice.

There's no negation. Those are 2 completely compatible thoughts, and the only objection is from those who either don't care about the second, or are sensitive so say "yeah but not now, come back next week'

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

God bless you. I hope your family and friends in the region remain safe and well.

Likewise

 

[Frasbul]

Almost. You almost had it.

There doesn't always have to be a "but" because all the "but" does it serve to negate your previous thoughts.

That applies to both sides and beyond where it's common for people to use this odd practice.

There is literally no "but" in his post.

 

[JPRouve]

Almost. You almost had it.

There doesn't always have to be a "but" because all the "but" does it serve to negate your previous thoughts.

That applies to both sides and beyond where it's common for people to use this odd practice.

There is no but in his statement, it's two ideas that actually exist together and give sense to this very old conflict.

 

[calodo2003]

The ISIS comparisons were legit it seems.

Just not condemnable though.

 

[JagUTD]

There's no negation. Those are 2 completely compatible thoughts, and the only objection is from those who either don't care about the second, or are sensitive so say "yeah but not now, come back next week'

I think they're worthy of separation and deserve to be viewed as terrible events in their own right.

Do you not?

You can and should absolutely highlight the othersides atrocities but do so on the next breath, or another post. Not with a "but" as it never looks good and absolutely negates anything you have said before, even if you are sincere.

 

[That_Bloke]

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Horrible, there's no word for this.

 

[VorZakone]

14 Americans killed, Joe Biden says.

 

[Dan_F]

No matter what Hamas does, children burned, babies decapitated, sheer hatred, joy and dancing at murder of helpless innocents etc etc. It will not matter to many people here. Nor Hamas's stated reasons as being firstly for religious reasons, as revenge for some theoretical insult to their third holiest site (from which they prostrate themselves in the opposite direction).

Many in here will continue to lap up what Hamas posts online, which is either misleading or outright lies, because that's what they want to believe. Islam is one of the world's most popular religions and Muslims generally support one another. (In most other contexts that is admirable but not here unfortunately.)

When you say it doesn’t matter to many people here or that many in here are lapping up Hamas posts, where do you mean? On the Caf? I haven’t been following the thread constantly, but I can’t see anyone “lapping up Hamas posts”.

The death of an Israeli child is equal to the death of a Palestinian child. Beheading is extremely barbaric and brutal, but the result is the same as bombing a house. The main difference being that one is a terrorist organisation and one is a supposed western ally.

Someone condemning the Israeli government for any of their behaviour is certainly not celebrating Hamas, and specifically the recent events. I would condemn any country that kills innocent people intentionally, that includes the US or UK.

 

[Laurencio]

The US providing defensive support, deterrence and logistics.

 

[Ragnar123]

14 Americans killed, Joe Biden says.

He also made it pretty clear US will defend Israel against any country who thinks to join Hamas.

 

[fergieisold]

Sooner Hamas are removed the better for everyone by the sounds of it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2023/10/what-is-hamas/675594/

 

[VorZakone]

Netanyahu's office denied this but politically speaking, he may have an interest in denying it...

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