[Stacks]

He was very much in the running for POS, Scott McKenna won it, though any one from Garner, Yates, Worrall, Johnson or Spence were equally worthy.
How do you know his level is Championship. You are ditching before he’s had the chance to step up.

I said it MIGHT

 

[Forest Red]

I said it MIGHT

But what is your opinion based on? We have half a squad of players who probably are Champ level but they will all get the chance to prove themselves.

 

[Stacks]

But what is your opinion based on? We have half a squad of players who probably are Champ level but they will all get the chance to prove themselves.

was he clearly better than the other midfielders in the Championship or were there plenty players of his level in the league?

 

[Bwuk]

It's a shame he won't get the chance but we don't have the atmosphere in the first team to bring him through.

 

[Forest Red]

was he clearly better than the other midfielders in the Championship or were there plenty players of his level in the league?

There was nobody who played at 6 in the championship with his skill set. Vision, speed of thought and passing range. Add to that his work rate, ability to cover ground and stay fit playing 2 games a week. Yes there were other good players with different strengths - O’Brien carries the ball better, Gibbs - White was a better number 10 etc etc.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

There was nobody who played at 6 in the championship with his skill set. Vision, speed of thought and passing range. Add to that his work rate, ability to cover ground and stay fit playing 2 games a week. Yes there were other good players with different strengths - O’Brien carries the ball better, Gibbs - White was a better number 10 etc etc.

I’ve only watched O’Brien once (vs WHU) but his all round game in that match seemed better than anything I saw from Garner last season. Although I only watched Forest about half a dozen times.

 

[Forest Red]

I’ve only watched O’Brien once (vs WHU) but his all round game in that match seemed better than anything I saw from Garner last season. Although I only watched Forest about half a dozen times.

Fair enough - opinions etc - we are obviously a work in progress but at the moment we don’t counter with anything like the speed we did last season - mainly because we are missing Garners passing.

 

[Shipperley]

How’s he compare to Flynn Downes @Forest Red? No public links but I very much expect that we’re having a close look at him knowing the profile of player we go for these days. Was a shame to miss out on Downes but from what I heard Garner had a better season.

 

[Forest Red]

How’s he compare to Flynn Downes @Forest Red? No public links but I very much expect that we’re having a close look at him knowing the profile of player we go for these days. Was a shame to miss out on Downes but from what I heard Garner had a better season.

To be honest - no idea - Swansea had an average season. We absolutely battered them 5 v 1 at our place with Downes playing so he can’t have made a great impression. His wasn’t one that got mentioned a lot.

 

[Stacks]

There was nobody who played at 6 in the championship with his skill set. Vision, speed of thought and passing range. Add to that his work rate, ability to cover ground and stay fit playing 2 games a week. Yes there were other good players with different strengths - O’Brien carries the ball better, Gibbs - White was a better number 10 etc etc.

Fair enough. Like I said to the poster, may be worth giving him a shot this season since we aren't brining anyone else in or put in some buy back clauses. I used to work with his secondary school btw

 

[Red Dreams]

Man please stop. Y'all say this about every damn youngster. He has had a few loans and not as if he was "POTY" at each championship club so maybe they can see he ain't gonna be that special. Championship might be his level.

Please stop talking rubbish

EDIT

Still don't get it?

The Glazers are gutting the squad to fund players the manager wants.

 

[Stacks]

Please stop talking rubbish

EDIT

Still don't get it?

The Glazers are gutting the squad to fund players the manager wants.

TBH I'd rather give him a try at least for this season as I am not confident we will get adequate players in

 

[sun_tzu]

Please stop talking rubbish

EDIT

Still don't get it?

The Glazers are gutting the squad to line their pockets

Fixed for you

 

[lex talionis]

When do we ever give our young players a chance? Elanga has gotten a runout and he's been underwhelming but at least he got a proper runout.

But who else in recent years?

 

[Red Dreams]

TBH I'd rather give him a try at least for this season as I am not confident we will get adequate players in

The Glazers are unwilling to buy new players. They do not want to fund them.
So they give the manager a choice.
Use the current squad or sell players to fund players he wants.

These evil fecks are our owners.
We need to do whatever we can to get them out.
Make them an offer they cannot refuse.

 

[Forest Red]

Fair enough. Like I said to the poster, may be worth giving him a shot this season since we aren't brining anyone else in or put in some buy back clauses. I used to work with his secondary school btw

i’m genuinely do not understanding ETH‘s decision about Garner. Considering the position you are in and Garner determination to play for United, why not keep him around until at least the Jan Window, give him some minutes and a chance. The consensus at our end was that if we were going to get him it would probably be in January.

I genuinely wish you lot luck going forward

 

[Kostov]

People trying to act smart and blubbering crap about "it's the right time to sell" no it is not. When you have garbage starting in the midfield there is nothing smart in selling your 21 year old talented CM. Comparting our case with City and Chelsea selling their youngsters for good fees is nothing alike, they have class players in the same positions, we have players who are clearly not good enough. IF we are to sell midfielders Fred and McT should be first out of the door.

 

[Champ]

People trying to act smart and blubbering crap about "it's the right time to sell" no it is not. When you have garbage starting in the midfield there is nothing smart in selling your 21 year old talented CM. Comparting our case with City and Chelsea selling their youngsters for good fees is nothing alike, they have class players in the same positions, we have players who are clearly not good enough. IF we are to sell midfielders Fred and McT should be first out of the door.

The club are damned if they do sell, damned if they don't.

If they do sell, you have people like yourself claiming that Garner could do better than what we have (despite no real evidence to suggest he could).

If they don't sell it will be 'the club hold on to Deadwood too long', or 'why are we harming Garners development and lowering his price by not selling him' etc.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

People trying to act smart and blubbering crap about "it's the right time to sell" no it is not. When you have garbage starting in the midfield there is nothing smart in selling your 21 year old talented CM. Comparting our case with City and Chelsea selling their youngsters for good fees is nothing alike, they have class players in the same positions, we have players who are clearly not good enough. IF we are to sell midfielders Fred and McT should be first out of the door.

Seconded. First two games this season our midfield was sturdy as a house of cards. I think Garner could really add to this team. I would keep Garner around for when our midfield implodes after a proper hammering (maybe MOnday?) and players start downing tools or getting "injured" or whatever excuse they come up with for not turning up. Garner desperately wants to play for this club he's not a mercenary, he's young, and I think he's better than options already playing for us.

 

[Kostov]

The club are damned if they do sell, damned if they don't.

If they do sell, you have people like yourself claiming that Garner could do better than what we have (despite no real evidence to suggest he could).

If they don't sell it will be 'the club hold on to Deadwood too long', or 'why are we harming Garners development and lowering his price by not selling him' etc.

Mate their is no blue print or guaranteed path in how a youngster will develop, there is plenty of evidence that Garner can develop and improve, whether that will turn out to be good enough for what we need, there is no way to know.

There is no logic in which Garner after 5 outing for the club to be described as deadwood. We have player like Fred and McT with countless of examples that they will never improve, while on 100K+ a week and that is the definition of deadwood. With those 2 jokers we really have nothing to lose.

 

[Kostov]

Seconded. First two games this season our midfield was sturdy as a house of cards. I think Garner could really add to this team. I would keep Garner around for when our midfield implodes after a proper hammering (maybe MOnday?) and players start downing tools or getting "injured" or whatever excuse they come up with for not turning up. Garner desperately wants to play for this club he's not a mercenary, he's young, and I think he's better than options already playing for us.

I agree. Can't get any worse than McT and Fred imo.

 

[Champ]

Mate their is no blue print or guaranteed path in how a youngster will develop, there is plenty of evidence that Garner can develop and improve, whether that will turn out to be good enough for what we need, there is no way to know.

There is no logic in which Garner after 5 outing for the club to be described as deadwood. We have player like Fred and McT with countless of examples that they will never improve, while on 100K+ a week and that is the definition of deadwood. With those 2 jokers we really have nothing to lose.

I'm merely suggesting that's what the fans will think of someone warming the bench game after game.

Garner played well on loan in the Championship, but let's not forget he is 21 now, the likes of Mount and Foden already had a full premiership season under their belts at that point.
Doesn't mean he won't make it, just means he's another year or two behind in terms of development.
That means realistically the club can either be patient with him and wait another year or two, or sell him now with a buy back option in and see how it goes.

 

[Kostov]

I'm merely suggesting that's what the fans will think of someone warming the bench game after game.

Garner played well on loan in the Championship, but let's not forget he is 21 now, the likes of Mount and Foden already had a full premiership season under their belts at that point.
Doesn't mean he won't make it, just means he's another year or two behind in terms of development.
That means realistically the club can either be patient with him and wait another year or two, or sell him now with a buy back option in and see how it goes.

I don't think many reasonable fans will ask for Garner to be sold and garbage like I already mentioned to be left on the pay role, it makes no logic to me.

And yes Mount and Foden are great players, and had a different path to their stardom it means nothing compared to Garner. McTominay was starting for Manchester United at 20/21 while Mount was on loan at Derby at similar age. And Garner might just as well turn out to be another McT but there is nothing wrong in trying him out first. Problem is like in the McT case, when it has been evident that he is not good enought, he is still starting games left right and center.

 

[Champ]

I don't think many reasonable fans will ask for Garner to be sold and garbage like I already mentioned to be left on the pay role, it makes no logic to me.

And yes Mount and Foden are great players, and had a different path to their stardom it means nothing compared to Garner. McTominay was starting for Manchester United at 20/21 while Mount was on loan at Derby at similar age. And Garner might just as well turn out to be another McT but there is nothing wrong in trying him out first. Problem is like in the McT case, when it has been evident that he is not good enought, he is still starting games left right and center.

Is Garner good enough to be a starter in this United team? I think the answer is probably no, that's based on his performances in the Championship, which were good but not commanding.

That's not to say he won't, but again, by selling now we can get full value from him, rather than keep him on the bench for another season, or loan him out and see his contract run down another year, this diminishing any value he has.

There's a reason we are looking at buying midfielders rather than use Garner.

 

[Xaviboy]

Everytime I have seen him play he offers nothing.

Even game couple weeks back vs Rayo in friendly he didn't offer much in midfield.

Another passenger in there. We need a Midfielder who can dictate the play if Casemiro comes in. Fred, McTominey, Garner can't do it.

 

[Bestietom]

We need someone to play in front of back 4 against Liverpool so who. Savage or Iqbal.

 

[Kostov]

Is Garner good enough to be a starter in this United team? I think the answer is probably no, that's based on his performances in the Championship, which were good but not commanding.

That's not to say he won't, but again, by selling now we can get full value from him, rather than keep him on the bench for another season, or loan him out and see his contract run down another year, this diminishing any value he has.

There's a reason we are looking at buying midfielders rather than use Garner.

How can you say we can now get full value for him, and in the same sentence say that "we can not say he won't be good enough (probably in the future)"? If he turn out remotely good enough, I bet he will cost much more than the 15m we can get now for him don't you think? And yeah there is a reason we are looking at buying midfielders but I can not see a reason why we don't use Garner.

 

[Marwood]

The club are damned if they do sell, damned if they don't.

If they do sell, you have people like yourself claiming that Garner could do better than what we have (despite no real evidence to suggest he could).

If they don't sell it will be 'the club hold on to Deadwood too long', or 'why are we harming Garners development and lowering his price by not selling him' etc.

There's a big middle ground between those two scenarios.

We could actually introduce a young player to the team and bit by bit develop him. Like we used to.

 

[Champ]

How can you say we can now get full value for him, and in the same sentence say that "we can not say he won't be good enough (probably in the future)"? If he turn out remotely good enough, I bet he will cost much more than the 15m we can get now for him don't you think? And yeah there is a reason we are looking at buying midfielders but I can not see a reason why we don't use Garner.

Ever heard of a buy back clause? Something Chrlsea use frequently, Something that City have been using.

Let's not forget these two teams ay the market amazingly well by selling their youth prospects early when their stock is relatively high, usually after a successful loan.
Slap a £25/30m buy back clause in the sale, that way you've covered any potential fall out.

 

[Champ]

There's a big middle ground between those two scenarios.

We could actually introduce a young player to the team and bit by bit develop him. Like we used to.

Like we are doing with Elanga? Like we are doing with Garnacho?

We do that, frequently. Usually with a player the coaches deem good enough to make it, Garner could well be on the same path, or he could be sold, and if he is to be sold it should be now.

 

[Marwood]

Like we are doing with Elanga? Like we are doing with Garnacho?

We do that, frequently. Usually with a player the coaches deem good enough to make it, Garner could well be on the same path, or he could be sold, and if he is to be sold it should be now.

We have with Elanga but we all know he's only there because he's quick.

Nothing has happened with Garnacho yet but he probably will get his chance. Again because he's quick.

It's easy to chuck in a lad who has an outstanding physical attribute. You know that without any coaching input you're at least getting that from them. But it doesn't get us anywhere because usually they don't have the ability. It's the lazy approach to youth development.

I'm on about properly nurturing talent.

We've stopped trying with players who might not have an immediate physical impact on the game but might have the technical ability.

That takes more patience, more effort. Some actual coaching would be required.

I watched McTominay in the youth teams. I've also watched Garner, Galbraith and Levitt.

Trust me McTominay is the least talented but he gets the chance. Because he's the biggest. Lazy stuff.

These managers and coaches get paid a fortune. About time they started developing the right players properly.

 

[Champ]

We have with Elanga but we all know he's only there because he's quick.

Nothing has happened with Garnacho yet but he probably will get his chance. Again because he's quick.

It's easy to chuck in a lad who has an outstanding physical attribute. You know that without any coaching input you're at least getting that from them. But it doesn't get us anywhere because usually they don't have the ability. It's the lazy approach to youth development.

I'm on about properly nurturing talent.

We've stopped trying with players who might not have an immediate physical impact on the game but might have the technical ability.

That takes more patience, more effort. Some actual coaching would be required.

I watched McTominay in the youth teams. I've also watched Garner, Galbraith and Levitt.

Trust me McTominay is the least talented but he gets the chance. Because he's the biggest. Lazy stuff.

These managers and coaches get paid a fortune. About time they started developing the right players properly.

Do you really believe that?

You really believe Elanga and McTominay are getting international caps because they are quick and/or strong, and not because they can actually play football as well?

Do you really believe Garnacho is getting minutes off the bench because he's quick only? How about his call up to the fringes of the Argentine squad....just because he's quick?!

There's a reason Levitt is plying his trade at Dundee currently, he is quick also, but unfortunately isn't quite at the grade needed to break through to Uniteds first team.

If anything, I'd say what you are suggesting is actually lazy. You are suggesting Garner isn't getting minutes because he's too technical but not strong or quick enough, blatantly ignoring the fact that Garner has just spent a season in the Championship, a league well known for being far more rambunctious than the Premiership, and didn't look out of place at all.

 

[Kostov]

Ever heard of a buy back clause? Something Chrlsea use frequently, Something that City have been using.

Let's not forget these two teams ay the market amazingly well by selling their youth prospects early when their stock is relatively high, usually after a successful loan.
Slap a £25/30m buy back clause in the sale, that way you've covered any potential fall out.

You miss my point. I have no issue with selling with a buy back clause or sell on clause, me and you we should be concerned with what we are left to watch week in week out, and that is Fred and McT. Two absolutely horrendous midfielders who have no place in a club like this.

 

[Champ]

You miss my point. I have no issue with selling with a buy back clause or sell on clause, me and you we should be concerned with what we are left to watch week in week out, and that is Fred and McT. Two absolutely horrendous midfielders who have no place in a club like this.

Keeping Garner isn't going to change that, whereas selling him will give us £15m or so extra in the kitty.

 

[Kostov]

Keeping Garner isn't going to change that, whereas selling him will give us £15m or so extra in the kitty.

It won't change anything if he persist with playing the duo, and that will lead to him getting sacked by new year, in which selling Garner for 15m will look even worse, without assessing him properly.

 

[Marwood]

Do you really believe that?

You really believe Elanga and McTominay are getting international caps because they are quick and/or strong, and not because they can actually play football as well?

Do you really believe Garnacho is getting minutes off the bench because he's quick only? How about his call up to the fringes of the Argentine squad....just because he's quick?!

There's a reason Levitt is plying his trade at Dundee currently, he is quick also, but unfortunately isn't quite at the grade needed to break through to Uniteds first team.

If anything, I'd say what you are suggesting is actually lazy. You are suggesting Garner isn't getting minutes because he's too technical but not strong or quick enough, blatantly ignoring the fact that Garner has just spent a season in the Championship, a league well known for being far more rambunctious than the Premiership, and didn't look out of place at all.

Ok so a few things there I haven't said.

I haven't mentioned why their international teams are selecting them. Not really interested as to why although I do find it odd that international teams select young players who've literally done nothing at club level.

I'm instead discussing why certain players in United's youth set up get a chance and others don't.

I haven't said Garner is too technical. That'd be an odd point to make. I'm saying he's on the bench and McTominay starts for no other reason than the latter is bigger and stronger.

Because when it comes to actual football ability Garner is better. It's not debatable if you've watched them both consistently.

Same with Elanga. Effective at U23 level because of his pace. If you've watched him at that level it'd be clear as day it won't translate to senior football. Which is exactly what's happened.

Like I said,from a coaching perspective it's easier to chuck McTominay in a team at 19 than it is a Foden type. It's the lazy option.

We're wasting talent doing this and it needs to change. We need coaches to start valuing possession.

 

[Champ]

Ok so a few things there I haven't said.

I haven't mentioned why their international teams are selecting them. Not really interested as to why although I do find it odd that international teams select young players who've literally done nothing at club level.

I'm instead discussing why certain players in United's youth set up get a chance and others don't.

I haven't said Garner is too technical. That'd be an odd point to make. I'm saying he's on the bench and McTominay starts for no other reason than the latter is bigger and stronger.

Because when it comes to actual football ability Garner is better. It's not debatable if you've watched them both consistently.

Same with Elanga. Effective at U23 level because of his pace. If you've watched him at that level it'd be clear as day it won't translate to senior football. Which is exactly what's happened.

Like I said,from a coaching perspective it's easier to chuck McTominay in a team at 19 than it is a Foden type. It's the lazy option.

We're wasting talent doing this and it needs to change. We need coaches to start valuing possession.

EtH doesn't??

What a bizarre statement. We've dominated possession these past two games, over 60% of the ball.

The issue here isn't technical, we have plenty of technical players in the team.

McTominay starts because he follows orders and is resolute in defending, we don't have anyone else like him. Yeah he's strong, but that for sure isn't the only reason, to say otherwise is churlish.
Let's not forget McTominay was making 14/15 appearances in the keague at Garners age...was he bigger and stronger than Pogba/Matic etc?

Garner wouldn't get in to the team over McTominay, it would be in over Fred, the player who drops deep to receive the ball.

 

[Marwood]

EtH doesn't??

What a bizarre statement. We've dominated possession these past two games, over 60% of the ball.

The issue here isn't technical, we have plenty of technical players in the team.

McTominay starts because he follows orders and is resolute in defending, we don't have anyone else like him. Yeah he's strong, but that for sure isn't the only reason, to say otherwise is churlish.
Let's not forget McTominay was making 14/15 appearances in the keague at Garners age...was he bigger and stronger than Pogba/Matic etc?

Garner wouldn't get in to the team over McTominay, it would be in over Fred, the player who drops deep to receive the ball.

Well we'll see. Two games in and he's picked midfielders who don't look after the ball. Is he brave enough to go with less physical players who can actually play? Let's see.

I'd suggest we've had possession because both games have been over at half time and the opposition has sat back.

I'd also say there's a big difference between defenders passing it around themselves and a team keeping the ball high up the pitch.

I don't know what to say if you think we have the technical ability to look after the ball in the opposition half because it hasn't happened for years.

 

[Champ]

Well we'll see. Two games in and he's picked midfielders who don't look after the ball. Is he brave enough to go with less physical players who can actually play? Let's see.

I'd suggest we've had possession because both games have been over at half time and the opposition has sat back.

I'd also say there's a big difference between defenders passing it around themselves and a team keeping the ball high up the pitch.

I don't know what to say if you think we have the technical ability to look after the ball in the opposition half because it hasn't happened for years.

He went with a midfield of Bruno, Eriksen and Fred! Hardly a powerhouse there is it!?

We had more possession, more passes, more territory then Brentford and indeed Brighton.

 

[DevTheRed]

If Gibbs-White is worth £40m+ then £15m for Jimmy is absolutely ridiculous.