Not many as harmful as those two.
Joe Rogan
- Thread starter Ecstasio
- Start date
You’re not alone in that sentiment.
I feel like he's well on the way to being the next Trump-like Presidential candidate
I think Petersons tactic is just basically complicate every question, so that his critics dont know what he is talking about, but his fans love it.
His critics can't know what he's taking about, as its often just nonsense. The first 25 mins of that Joe Rogan podcast is like a SNL sketch.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
I don't think that you appreciate the power of propaganda from sources like this and the Murdoch media empire.
Let's hope so
Joe Rogan a dangerous man? I think those that want to cancel him are far more dangerous. Those people should spend efforts in promoting whatever sources they believe are "true information" vs trying to censor entertainment podcast over misinformation.
I see some of you are bringing Alex Jones. Alex Jones is a criminal, literary. His career is media/news or whatever was based on lies and conspiracy theories. He went too far with Sandy Hook and got cancelled. He was spreading lies over and over again, literary monetizing a tragedy.
Joe Rogan is a totally different case. His podcast touches a lot of different topics. Sure, there are misinformation in a lot of his podcasts, maybe all, but that is not enough reason to censor someone. I am actually sure he will drop vaccine topics in the future. If I was in his shoes I totally would. He absolutely doesn't need covid and covid vaccines to make money as his viewership is very strong without it.
I see some of you are bringing Alex Jones. Alex Jones is a criminal, literary. His career is media/news or whatever was based on lies and conspiracy theories. He went too far with Sandy Hook and got cancelled. He was spreading lies over and over again, literary monetizing a tragedy.
Joe Rogan is a totally different case. His podcast touches a lot of different topics. Sure, there are misinformation in a lot of his podcasts, maybe all, but that is not enough reason to censor someone. I am actually sure he will drop vaccine topics in the future. If I was in his shoes I totally would. He absolutely doesn't need covid and covid vaccines to make money as his viewership is very strong without it.
I notice you're defending Joe Rogan quite a bit in this thread so I'll ask how do you feel about the recent connections made between the rise of his podcast popularity and wahhabism in Saudi Arabia?
When should censorship occur, what’s the red line in the sand?
Censorship should occur when there is a clear intent to cause harm.
Misinformation in potentially all his podcasts would definitely show intent & could be categorized as intentional. Or even a few.
maybe its time we had a new conversation around this in society
we've created this seemingly benevolent technology in the internet, thats fecking things up
loads of people are dying in this pandemic because of misinformation, and often well-meaning or just ignorant people are spreading it
Facebook is being used to win elections using misinformation
the landscape has changed and we need to take this into consideration when discussing censorship
I hate the idea of censoring Rogan too, he's just an idiot stoner.. but I mean what the feck this is getting out of hand
I don't know anything about that. There is a direct correlation between Joe Rogan's podcast and rise of wahhabism within Saudi Arabia? Can you share some info about it so I can educate myself.
Whilst I personally agree, I used mostly because there’s still a fair amount of fundamentalists out there who definitely don’t view the OT as fantasy or myth. In any case, the bible as a whole and the NT in particular is foundational to much or most of our culture. It’s in everything from language to the calendar.
Anyway…tangent over.
Last edited:
There was a good podcast recently from Stuff You Should Know guys where they briefly talked about how dangerous it is to live in times when people are allowed to question science freely and when science has basically become enemy for large portion of society.
Absolutely people should not be allowed to spread their dumb views on things they have absolutely no clue about because it’s extremely hard for an average person to actually recognize what is true and what is not. The idea that any random folk can just ‘make up their mind’ doesn’t work in real world. And most aren’t even educated enough to show any signs of critical thinking, I mean I live in a country where more than a third (!!) of population say their trust their friends more on health related topics than they trust actual doctors because our politicians have been allowed to question medical personnel and call them murderers freely.
Last edited:
Internet, especially social media, is a new technology. Loads of people are dying because we are in the pandemic, not because of Joe Rogan. There is a possibility that someone was idolizing Joe Rogan, did not get vaccinated directly because Joe Rogan is not vaccinated and died from COVID. That is very sad and should not happen, but I fail to see how that is a ground to cancel someone. People replicate all sort of dangerous activities and die.
By the way, I wish there was this much passion in cancelling televangelists who are stealing people's money through making false promises. There is some effort, but it's so meek. Cancelling Joe Rogs on another hand is at full swing.
I get it, we are in the pandemic and all of us want it to be over. Most people think if we just get vaccinated, if we just all start roving in the same direction this would be over. That will never happen. Never in history have all people agreed on something.
Stop talking sense you!Wow. Some people here think cancelling Joe Rogan's podcast is ok? A power that government should actually have? How much cancelling is required until the World is perfect for some of you!?Joe Rogan's podcast is the most viewed podcast in the World for a reason. He is able to hold a great conversation with almost anyone: comedian, athlete, scientist, politician, conspiracy theorist, science quack, movie director, health freak, nutritionist etc... You name it. You also have to CLICK your way to listen his podcast, it ain't spread as propaganda at bars, airports and other public places.
I am perfectly fine boycotting Joe Rogan's podcast or advocating that it should be not listened to due to "misinformation", but advocating to cancel it? Get the feck out of here.
No I'm sorry I just don't feel comfortable talking about it as it's very disturbing.
Absolutely people should be able to freely talk about anything they want to talk about. Absolutely you should have a right to hear information from those you wish to hear information. Absolutely it is dangerous to have a "prefilter" of information.
Censorship is dangerous, and should be used only when there is clear grounds for it - like advocating violence.
I dont think he is terrible. Some good interviews with boxers like Lennox Lewis. Another good one about doping in professional cycling.
There is some good in it.
There is some good in it.
If doubling down on spreading misinformation against maximum scientific consensus is not intent to cause potentially deadly harm, then I don't know what it is. Accountability should be imposed on all hosts involved in mass media, be it podcasts, regular radio or TV. If one talks shit that affects public health, there has to be a penalty.
I would say I’m aware of it, to be fair. I take a keen interest in politics and who’s influencing what, and then it just so happens that some of the people I’ve come to like and respect have appeared as guests on this podcast, which is what got me in to it. I enjoy the format and typically don’t have many quarrels with joe himself as he’s not really trying to be inauthentic. So much of what comes out of his mouth is complete and utter rubbish, but I don’t come away thinking “jeez I can’t believe he said that it must be 100% influencing the way people feel and maybe even changing peoples mind in things”. I think what’s much more true - which you can say about any mainstream propaganda - is that people will hear what they want to regardless of whether someone with 11 million followers or 1 follower says it, ergo, their minds were already made up beforehand.
The point I wanted to make was that with people like that, who may be believing misinformation, acting upon it and putting themselves and others in grave danger, those people are just not going to change their minds when all that comes at them is insults. Within that group of 11 million followers will be people who can be reasoned with and potentially have their beliefs swayed but it certainly won’t be by someone Who calls them a freak or mentally delinquent. The key is and always has been discussion.
If spotify paid a 100 million for his show he must have a lot of fans.
hospitals are full of anti-vax people who get their science info from random knobs on Facebook
you don’t think that’s a concern?
Rogan has the right to his views. But others also have the right to theirs, and a right to try and bring as much pressure as they can on companies like Spotify to decline to give Rogan a platform, which he has zero right to. And being a malign influence on public health and public health discourse during a pandemic is a more valid reason than is neccessary for them to want to do so.
So yeah, well done Neil Young. And if people (musicians or otherwise) can bring enough criticism to bear on the likes of Spotify that they eventually decide they don't want to peddle Rogan's bullshit any more, good for them.
In terms of the Neil Young angle though, it's worth saying that he has previously pulled his music from spotify for completely different reasons and is in a very privileged position when it comes to this sort of protest compared to other artists given both his vast wealth and fact that he's less dependent on streaming services to reach his core fanbase. Few other artists will be inclined to follow his lead you'd suspect, even if they agree with his point.
So yeah, well done Neil Young. And if people (musicians or otherwise) can bring enough criticism to bear on the likes of Spotify that they eventually decide they don't want to peddle Rogan's bullshit any more, good for them.
In terms of the Neil Young angle though, it's worth saying that he has previously pulled his music from spotify for completely different reasons and is in a very privileged position when it comes to this sort of protest compared to other artists given both his vast wealth and fact that he's less dependent on streaming services to reach his core fanbase. Few other artists will be inclined to follow his lead you'd suspect, even if they agree with his point.
11 million daily listeners I think I heard.
Isn't Rogen a 9/11 truther?
I vaguely recall him questioning "jet fuel can't melt steel beams" or some nonsense.
I vaguely recall him questioning "jet fuel can't melt steel beams" or some nonsense.
I could spin that and say "Hospitals are full of anti-vax people who are looking for knobs on facebook to validate their opinion which is set in stone"
Trying to police what is on the internet is fool's errand in my humble opinion. Cat is already out.
What is way more dangerous than censorship is people deliberately spreading lies and misinformation on crucial topics in order to make themselves popular (because in most cases it’s literally just that, people knowing how gullible an average person is and trying to capitalize on that).
At school you are not told to ‘make up your mind’ whether 2+2=4 or 2+2=9. If all of a sudden a group of teachers decide to have their own ‘true mathematics’ movement where they start convincing people that they had been lied to all their lives, and 2+2 indeed equals 9, you don’t allow them to continue ‘because freedom of speech’. You don’t let kids to ‘choose’ which mathematics believe, do you?
Everyone who purposefully spreads lies and misinformation on important issues should 100% have their platform taken away and the number of people they can reach limited to the minimum. You can’t let the world become a place where instead of educating people on things which are clear, obvious and proven by science you just allow them to ‘make up their mind’. That is ridiculous and will set us back centuries.
Last edited:
I agree it’s probably too late in this particular case but what this pandemic has shown to us is how dangerous it is to let people run around spreading misinformation. It literally cost millions of lives and is going to cost even more.
You can’t expect an average Joe to be able to verify information which they find on Facebook, crowd will just go behind what feels best to them and if believing in big bad conspiracy is going to give them a way to feel better about themselves, they will choose that irrespective of whether it is based on a bunch of fabricated information or not.
Last edited:
Think about what that entails in practice.
We literally have doctors being attacked, threatened and have their houses and cars smashed here because large chunk of our society has been led to believe that they are part of conspiracy, deliberately killing people in hospitals with respirators etc. This literally happened to a person I know recently.
It’s not just random Karen from FB not trusting the vaccine. It goes well beyond that.
Last edited:
It’s not even that complex. The last decade or so is the first in which people are basically able to say anything and reach hundreds of millions with that within hours. Even 20 years ago this was not possible, if you went around talking bullshit your reach would always be very limited because nobody had time for that. Social media has tools and capacity to reduce the impact of that, they just haven’t done this and unfortunately this coincided with the first big pandemic since early 20th century and we are now in this huge mess that we will probably take decades to get out of.
You what? He "just can't help himself"? He's not a victim here, he put himself in this position and when he got in that position he continued to court the opportunities. All he has to do is say "I don't have the required knowledge to speak on this subject" or something similar. Instead he chooses to engage in talking points regardless of his actual understanding of what he is talking about.
Social media is not a cause of the pandemic, could it have done more to reduce the impact of it sure, but so could most governments, most of big pharma and millions of individuals across the world. For all the ills of social media there are also plenty of benefits and that goes beyond the scope of the point i was responding to.
Forced censorship especially by the state is a terrible idea. Look at authoritarian states around the world for things that are deemed too important to allow free speech on and ask yourself if allowing the public to make up their own minds would be better or worse.
There's a huge gap between authoritarian states and full censorship and not allowing people to knowingly and deliberately spread misinformation and lies, and it's not actually that hard to monitor it.
I mean, if I go into media now saying a person X, who I name, did something extremely bad - say murdered someone - I would/should not be allowed to say that without having any grounds whatsoever, right? This would not fall under 'free speech' and you wouldn't say 'let people make up their mind about it'. And there is not that big stretch between that and saying Bill Gates designed the pandemic to depopulate Earth, or that bribed doctors along with Big Pharma are trying to deliberately murder people, or that people X, Y, Z who died in car accidents were killed by the vaccine etc. It may look a bit milder but it basically comes down to the similar concept of trying to harm a person/group by spreading lies about them.
There are facts, there are opinion and then there are just lies. One of them is not like the others.