John O' Shea - an apology

[Pogue Mahone]

Football IS that simple.

No it's not.

In judging when to pick any given player Fergie won't be thinking "hmmm... who's better? I'll have to pick the better player".

He'll be thinking about the qualities they bring to the team, whatever weaknesses they might have, the nature of the opposition, the context of the game and how well each player has been performing in training in the week leading up to the game.

Which is why it's almost impossible to pick the starting XI 100% accurately every week. If football was as simple as Scholesy, Fergie would never surprise any of us with his team selections. The fact he continues to do so is all the evidence we need that Scholesy's talking out his arse yet again.

 

[Scholesy]

So do you want O'Shea to start at Anfield, Emirates and Stamford Bridge?

Have you not seen Rafael this season, he is amazing.

 

[marrakoosh]

How is it a bad argument? What is the difference between anyone losing their head? a red is a red.



Weird one that cause I've seen a few occasions already this year where Rooney has lost his head. Even at the weekend he tried some childish scissor kick on Kompany.

I'm not getting into an argument over Rooney's temperament.

My point was that in a game like the one against City (or Liverpool as another point) where tempers can flare and people can start diving in. O'Shea is a good choice. He keeps calm. We've seen Rafael sent off a couple of times and he seems quite prone to getting yellow cards for clumsy, diving-in challenges.

Even a City fan knew this when they posted a break-down of our likely lineup and their weaknesses. Winding Rafael up, so he dives in, was one of those things. I'd rather have had a steady-eddy O'Shea facing up against Kolarov for the whole match, rather than Rafael owning him but getting a couple of unnecessary yellow cards and us being a man down.

I'm not saying that's always going to happen, but in the context of the game, it wouldn't have been entirely unlikely.

Also, I'm not saying that should apply to Chelsea or Arsenal. They're likely to approach the games in different ways and so Rafael's relative strengths may have been a greater benefit, than avoiding his weaknesses.

Final edit: I do think Rafael is amazing, he's certainly our future RB. I also love his hair.

 

[Tumbling-Dice]

Slackness from Evra (yet again) for their goal and we get a two page spread on John O'Shea.

Only on the caf.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

So do you want O'Shea to start at Anfield, Emirates and Stamford Bridge?

When did anyone say that?

Have you not seen Rafael this season, he is amazing.

We've all seen him plenty of times this season, you weirdo.

 

[golden_blunder]

So do you want O'Shea to start at Anfield, Emirates and Stamford Bridge?

I want Fergie to make a judgement based on what he knows about the opposition strengths, weaknesses, Uniteds own weaknesses at the time dependant on injuries, and how people are performing at that time.

Its not as simple as you make it out to be

Rafael is a good player yes, but he's also relatively inexperienced and a midget

O'Shea justified his inclusion on Saturday with a good performance so your points in this thread and the other post-match threads are a bit redundant (and thats putting it nicely)

 

[MancFanFromManc]

I thought he was excellent v City. The holy grail for footballers is consistency, lets hope JOS can find his after this performance (Rooney too!)

 

[Zebs]

O'Shea will play at Stamford Bridge.

 

[77]

Predictable responses from the usual feckwits on here again. City are a big physical team (bacon-neck aside). Fergie picked JOS ahead of Rafael to counter this and he got it right. O'Shea played a very solid game against City.

 

[Rado_N]

Slackness from Evra (yet again) for their goal and we get a two page spread on John O'Shea.

Only on the caf.

It's quite funny really, certain players - no matter how they play - cause reaction from elements of our support. It's always the same wit Sheasy, he is probably one of the most mentioned players in the match thread when he plays, even things which aren't his fault will be blamed on him sometimes. It's the same with Evans and Gibson.

 

[golden_blunder]

O'Shea is Gibsons fault

 

[Scholesy]

I want Fergie to make a judgement based on what he knows about the opposition strengths, weaknesses, Uniteds own weaknesses at the time dependant on injuries, and how people are performing at that time.

Its not as simple as you make it out to be

Rafael is a good player yes, but he's also relatively inexperienced and a midget

O'Shea justified his inclusion on Saturday with a good performance so your points in this thread and the other post-match threads are a bit redundant (and thats putting it nicely)

O'Shea played well, but when you have Rafael, you pick Rafael. Gibson could have played well if he was picked instead of Fletcher, but you have to pick Fletcher because he's the better player. Football is not about being tall.

 

[golden_blunder]

ok, you're clearly a child

 

[Rado_N]

O'Shea is Gibsons fault

yep

 

[Decotron]

Football IS that simple.

in the words of Scholesy himself, i give up!!!!

 

[Tumbling-Dice]

It's quite funny really, certain players - no matter how they play - cause reaction from elements of our support. It's always the same wit Sheasy, he is probably one of the most mentioned players in the match thread when he plays, even things which aren't his fault will be blamed on him sometimes. It's the same with Evans and Gibson.

I was happy to see O'Shea start because I know what he gives us and he didn't let us down.

GB couldn't have put it any better.

I want Fergie to make a judgement based on what he knows about the opposition strengths, weaknesses, Uniteds own weaknesses at the time dependant on injuries, and how people are performing at that time.

Resting Rafael following his bad concussion and a dislocated finger is like having money in the bank.

 

[Rado_N]

I was happy to see O'Shea start because I know what he gives us and he didn't let us down.

GB couldn't have put it any better.



Resting Rafael following his bad concussion and a dislocated finger is like having money in the bank.

I won't lie my first reaction was confusion at Rafael being left out but when I stopped to think about it it made sense, and the performance justified the decision. Geeb's post you quoted there does indeed put it perfectly, and despite what some people have claimed here, football is not as simple as picking 'the best player' every week, it's about picking the best team for the fixture.

 

[golden_blunder]

There is always going to be a certain amount of "horses for courses" in the modern squad game

 

[beacon]

I thought he played very well on Saturday and there were no complaints from me when I saw the team sheet. I never understand why people rate Brown ahead of him, I like Wes, but I never feel very relaxed with him in the squad these days. JOS on the other hand is as calm as you get. Exactly what Smalling needed with no Rio.

Rafael is clearly the more talented player, but I'd have fancied him and Tevez going toe to toe again at some point, and the last thing we needed was a full back on a yellow in the first 20 minutes. Sometimes experience and dependability are much more important attributes.

 

[The Physio]

The fact he was sucking down Jameson and Coke last Tuesday (on derby week) in Copper's doesn't exactly fill me with love for him at the moment.

 

[marrakoosh]

I thought he played very well on Saturday and there were no complaints from me when I saw the team sheet. I never understand why people rate Brown ahead of him, I like Wes, but I never feel very relaxed with him in the squad these days. JOS on the other hand is as calm as you get. Exactly what Smalling needed with no Rio.

Rafael is clearly the more talented player, but I'd have fancied him and Tevez going toe to toe again at some point, and the last thing we needed was a full back on a yellow in the first 20 minutes. Sometimes experience and dependability are much more important attributes.

Exactly what I said. We all know how Rafael was last year with Bellamy.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I thought he played very well on Saturday and there were no complaints from me when I saw the team sheet. I never understand why people rate Brown ahead of him, I like Wes, but I never feel very relaxed with him in the squad these days. JOS on the other hand is as calm as you get. Exactly what Smalling needed with no Rio.

Rafael is clearly the more talented player, but I'd have fancied him and Tevez going toe to toe again at some point, and the last thing we needed was a full back on a yellow in the first 20 minutes. Sometimes experience and dependability are much more important attributes.

That's a good point actually. Smalling was playing on the right side of central defence and I'm sure O'Shea was constantly talking to him throughout the game.

For all his fantastic talent, Rafael was never going to be the calming voice in his ear that Smalling needed in such a pressurised fixture. He was also more likely to get caught up the pitch, leaving Smalling to cope with a 2 v 1.

 

[Brwned]

Football IS that simple.

Arsenal:
v Liverpool - Eboue played rather than Walcott.
v us - Rosicky played rather than Walcott.

Chelsea:
v Liverpool - Zhirkov played instead of Drogba.

City:
v us - Lescott played instead of Toure.
v Liverpool - Johnson played instead of Silva.

Tottenham:
v Chelsea - Pavlyuchenko played instead of Crouch.
v Arsenal - Pavlyuchenko played instead of Crouch.


Do you think that was because they think that they're better players, or a better choice for this particular game because of the opposition? You don't think tactics enter into it and picking your best team of individual players is the way to beat any team? I think you're stuck in the dark ages if so.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

He made th RB position his own in 09 and we won the title and went all the way back to the CL Final. Enough Said.

Players at United that can do this HAVE to be pretty feckin decent.

Oshea looks bad when the whole team looks bad and many people on here unfairly use him as a scapegoat similar to Gibson.

 

[7even]

Big John! Not the best. Not the worst. But solid as a rock.

O´Shea is like a Volvo. A very safe option if you can´t afford a BMW, Audi or a Mercedes. Winter, spring or summer. Does´t matter, working fine in every weather.

We shall be proud of Sheasy. Professional, enthusiastic and always calm when the wind starts to blow.

Against Shitty he had a normal day at the office. Nothing spectacular. He did his job, as he always do. That´s a quality you can´t buy cheap.

 

[kouroux]

Players like him are always vital if you wanna win or compete.

 

[kikks]

Arsenal:
Tottenham:
v Chelsea - Pavlyuchenko played instead of Crouch.
v Arsenal - Pavlyuchenko played instead of Crouch.


Do you think that was because they think that they're better players, or a better choice for this particular game because of the opposition? You don't think tactics enter into it and picking your best team of individual players is the way to beat any team? I think you're stuck in the dark ages if so.

Of course not! Tottenham don't use tactics!

 

[Brwned]

Of course not! Tottenham don't use tactics!

Yeah I wasn't sure whether to stick good old 'arry's team in there, but his choice to swap Crouch for Pavlyuchenko is a tactical choice no matter how basic it is. It's about as far as he goes with tactics though.

 

[Decotron]

4 sensible comments in a row. Probably a record for an O'Shea thread....

 

[kikks]

Anyway, I like O'Shea. Sure, I'll yell at the screen when he misplaces a pass, but it's the same thing I do to everyone in the team.

Also, he seems like such a likeable lad as well. Seems genuinely pleased to be playing for our club, is happy to wait in turn and usually does a solid job whereever he is placed.

I can't judge his performance against City, since I've only seen highlights. I had to 'watch' the game through live updates, since my girlfriends accursed mac wouldn't play the fecking streams.

 

[Livvie]

No, not from me. From this bloke.



Can anyone else relate to these sentiments, this morning?

No. Not me. Not ever.

I've always liked him.

 

[Sultan]

Big John! Not the best. Not the worst. But solid as a rock.

O´Shea is like a Volvo. A very safe option if you can´t afford a BMW, Audi or a Mercedes. Winter, spring or summer. Does´t matter, working fine in every weather.

That's about right.

 

[R.N7]

If anything, O'Shea should be the one to apologize.

 

[Zebs]

I've been waiting for you to contribute.

 

[Nate Dogg]

Rafael played better than JOS on Saturday and he didn't even play lols..

Only Joking, JOS was okay.

 

[SharkyMcShark]

We could have won 100-0 and it would have been the wrong selection, etc.

 

[Fletcher's Jilted Lover]

O'Shea was decent and that's it on Saturday. The man issuing the apology probably has an O'Shea shirt.

If football was this simple we'd all be managers.

What a strange post.

 

[Boss]

If anything, O'Shea should be the one to apologize.

funniest post I've read in so long

 

[Rob Bowman]

No. Not me. Not ever.

I've always liked him.

I am afraid I am completely with Livvie on this. First off obviously their is a tactical issue and as it has already been raised, the experienced JOS next too Smalling with size is a very reasonable selection.

More importantly though I believe far to many consider these players simple pixels like their EA sports game and that they can just plug in whoever. It takes a special guy like JOS to sit around and accept that they are not the center of the Universe, but also not starting more often than not. These guys are what makes up the dressing room and make this such a special team.

This is the simple reason SAF has jettisoned some bigger names, yet this team keeps winning. Look at the team when JOS pulls on the armband. He is respected by not just SAF who has selected him as Captain, but by the players. He is well liked, a great team player, versatile, and totally committed to the team regardless of his role.

So you lot rant and rave all you want. Teams NEED players like JOS who fill the gaps with dignity and great spirits. Cheers .

 

[Livvie]

I am afraid I am completely with Livvie on this.

Afraid? Is agreeing with me something to be ashamed of then?