Stop trying to make sense of it
Complaining about a pre season friendly with half the squad missing. This place...
José Mourinho | 2018/19 Performances
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Think that depends. If we finish second in a highly competitive season on, say, 89 points or something, mount a strong CL run and win the FA Cup, then yeah, he'll be safe.
If, instead we come 2nd with a relatively lowish points total (relatively speaking), only get to the last 16 of the CL again, and don't win a cup while playing poor football, I think there's a decent chance he'll be in a bit of trouble.
Of course, but it doesn't excuse a poor style, which for me is all important, understand not for everyone though, so as you say it's proper title challenge or bust for Jose.
I think people are more saying they wouldn't be surprised if he's gone by Christmas, past form at previous clubs, last seasons discontentment, etc, make this understandable imo, but I don't think anyone wants us to lose, if there's a style change, and fantastic results, then people will love it, and be singing his praises very quickly.
It's more an expectation of what looks likely to happen.
I'm not sure what exactly Jose's role is in terms of coaching attacking player - if we're honest I doubt anyone on here is - but in the end he is responsible for it. Whether that's him directly or whoever he appoints to handle it.
I'm not sure I've ever seen a United team this utterly disconnected for such a long period of time. I watch (sadly) every minute and I have no idea what the players are trying to accomplish, short of not losing the ball. And that really is the last 9 months or so.
At some stage it has to come back to Jose. This is a preseason tour, it should be about getting kids chances, having some fun, getting fit and showing off to fans that are unlikely able to see us live. Instead Jose is handling it like a spoilt child who's being forced to do his homework. And that HAS to translate to the players.
I'm not sure I've ever seen a United team this utterly disconnected for such a long period of time. I watch (sadly) every minute and I have no idea what the players are trying to accomplish, short of not losing the ball. And that really is the last 9 months or so.
At some stage it has to come back to Jose. This is a preseason tour, it should be about getting kids chances, having some fun, getting fit and showing off to fans that are unlikely able to see us live. Instead Jose is handling it like a spoilt child who's being forced to do his homework. And that HAS to translate to the players.
Didn't you wish Moyes or LvG gone also in the past? So did you hope United fail?
Agreed. In terms of competitiveness, Pre-season is a nothing game but it's not just about "building fitness", as some silly people said. Why would you "build fitness" going on tour thousands of miles away? It's also a showcase to fans out there, what United is, and what "world class" players United have can do. Then for players to build cohesiveness, and implement the manager's tactic against real team.
Undefeated in pre-season lads. It's on.
This whole summer is reminding me of pre season 2006. From the 'miserable' transfers, to the lack of harmony in the squad on tour, to players like Pogba and Martial apparently wanting out (one may be very true).
I remember articles stating how we would drop out of the top 4 as Chelsea, Liverpool Spurs and Arsenal had done superior business. Giggs and Scholes were done and dusted etc.
I dont expect us to go and start a revolution again as we did in 06, but I'd love it if this squad can prove its worth.
I remember articles stating how we would drop out of the top 4 as Chelsea, Liverpool Spurs and Arsenal had done superior business. Giggs and Scholes were done and dusted etc.
I dont expect us to go and start a revolution again as we did in 06, but I'd love it if this squad can prove its worth.
I didn't realise it was like that with you guys.
The general feeling down our end is we were going to be in a fight with you and Liverpool for the title as you were both better than us during the second half of 05/06. The mammoth gap we built up before Christmas was enough to hold you both off but we defiantly saw it as a warning for the following season.
I stopped watching the game yesterday early in I'm the second half. Awful stuff.
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After 2 seasons who's fault is that? If he can't get his message across to the players and coach them as a team then you can't look further than the manager. The team that started was hardly makeshift. It's the same defence that will play vs Leicester. Sanchez, Martial and Mata all played.
He meant we're not a team in this pre season because everything is makeshift and he's right. Some of you lot have such a clear agenda I wonder if you actually support the club.
I can't help but feel Jose's comments this preseason so far are those of a frustrated man who isn't getting the backing of the board. Don't expect us to bring any more players in now unless we sell first.
He's right here, its not his fault so many of our players went deep in the World Cup.
Its a mixture of our sub bench and under age players, it's hardly a shocking statement to make.
Yeah, he's clearly on about preseason.
Yeah take LvG for example, I wanted him out but I didn't once say that I wanted us to lose games. I always made the point that I wanted him out even if we sneaked top four and won the FA Cup. What others have been saying is stuff like "hopefully it's Mourinho's last few months at the club" and "hopefully gone by Christmas" we all know the only way for a manager to be sacked during the season is for the club to do terrible. Why any United fan would want us to lose games is beyond me.
Preseason and the doom merchants are already in full swing. Anyone remember LVG's first preseason...beat Real ,Liverpool, Inter, Valencia, Roma....literally means nothing
Well we did end up starting well that season on the back of that.
There's absolutely no difference. Under LVG you basically said that no mater the results & expectations placed on him that you wanted him gone.
I say - no matter the expectation & results; I don't want Jose mourinho here. Absolutely no difference. The only difference is that Jose is the type of manager that you hire to amplify success over anything else & our football represents this. We can do just enough to maintain wins & get points but our football has no personality, charisma or continuing progress.
I don't see him suddenly improving this year & have absolutely no belief in him to change his methods - therefore I believe it is inevitable that he fails. I do not wish for it but I expect it & due to that I wish he goes ASAP.
Infact - more so than a lack of results; I expect him to lose control of squad as he started to do & history of doing towards the end of his 2nd season. If we win the title & meet the expectations of our club under Jose then he has the right to continue whether I like him here or not. I see so many holes in this team that I already believe this is a wasted season - therefore replacing Jose as early as possible is a positive to me.
I do not see the things that he is currently as beneficial & even before the season starts I believe he himself could be doing a better Job.
I am a Jose supporter, but I tell you what, after watching the 2 pre-season games, Jose looks like he is completely out of ideas.
The last time I saw this in the December, 2 years back, when LVG lost/drew every match. The guy had no idea what to do and that was my turning point. I knew he was done.
I am now seriously worried that Jose has also reached that point.
What I found shocking yesterday was that the team we played had more shots on target than us and they are apparently bottom of their league.
Our attackers simply had no idea how to attack. It was like watching a chef who didn't know how to cook. Or a carpenter who didn't know how to cut wood.
If our attackers lack the skill to shoot the ball towards the goal, then Jose needs to teach them this most basic skill or sell them. Hanging on to these types of players won't see us win anything. Martial in particular was dreadful. A player who looked like was playing to get himself sold or benched.
We have scored 1 goal in our first 2 pre-season games.
And before someone says, "it's only pre-season". This argument does not explain what I saw yesterday. Our attackers literally had no idea how to shoot the ball towards the goal. Just because an attacker has 2 months off, it does not excuse him of what I saw yesterday.
We finished last season poorly and we have started pre-season exactly the same way.
We need Jose to get his mojo back and take complete ownership of the situation, because right now, it looks like he doesn't give a damn.
If I don't see change in the next few months, then I will be in the Jose Out brigade (and I never thought I'd even be thinking this - I want him to say with us for the next decade and win every single trophy there is to win).
We lost our first game that season. And, no, we didn't start well. 3 wins in our first 10 that season.
I'm getting confused, I stand corrected!
Good post. Totally agree with your points.
We were absolutely diabolical last night, that’s for sure. All the usual pre-season excuses apply. The heat, the cobbled together team, the opposition being match-ready already etc etc etc but feck me, we had some supposedly top class players out there (Hererra, Martial, Bailly, Smalling) who should look on a completely different level to that opposition, even on an off day, but the exact opposite was the case. When they put out their full strength team in the second half they gave us a bit of a footballing lesson. Desperate stuff altogether.
And when the manager has been so unbearably negative from his first interview about this pre-season it’s hard not to link this negativity to a team playing football like they’d rather not be there too. Will we be more up for in it our first PL game? Hopefully but why can’t we build a bit of momentum and positivity now? God knows we need it after last season and you can’t just switch it on and off overnight.
And when the manager has been so unbearably negative from his first interview about this pre-season it’s hard not to link this negativity to a team playing football like they’d rather not be there too. Will we be more up for in it our first PL game? Hopefully but why can’t we build a bit of momentum and positivity now? God knows we need it after last season and you can’t just switch it on and off overnight.
State of this place after 2 pre season game 
. The weather was too hot today , i would be half-assed as well if i were the player
. The weather was too hot today , i would be half-assed as well if i were the playerActually there is a difference. This was around December 2015 when I turned on LvG and at that time we were knocked out of the CL group stages in a shite group we should've walked, we were a bit off top four and losing in embarrassing fasion to the likes of Norwich. I never said I wanted us to lose games hence why I said in my first post that I hoped we got top four which was a big ask and win the cup but I felt it was the right time to move on from LvG regardless. If people think this way with Mourinho then fair enough I have no issues with that what I don't like or understand is people saying it's hopefully the last few months of Mourinho before the season has even started. Like I said, only way he goes during the season is if we do terrible.
Yes, but what's pretty damning is that this statement could be applied to the last two seasons. It's not just pre season we don't look like a team, it's the past two years under him. He inadvertently hit the nail on the head.
This sums up my feelings pretty well too.
We are not going to magically become a side that plays exciting free flowing football. Fans will put up with the tumescent shit of the last 2 years if we get results, but shit football and no silverware (and I'm not talking about the League Cup) won't cut it. Its clear he doesn't get on with Pogba and the less said about Martial the better. He has highly questionable man management skills, routinely throwing players under the bus publicly. He looks disinterested and bored on a pre-season tour.
Have said it on another thread before, but this will be the year it comes crashing down imo. I know we can't sack him now, but its inevitable at some point this year and we'll be better off when it does happen.
The problem is that our transition game is absolutely wank, it's not one player, not one part of the team but every single players. We take way too much time to move the ball in dangerous areas, our attackers are always in front of the defense because they don't receive it quickly enough. There is also the little problem that none of our attacking players or midfielders are good off the ball in organized attacks. Our players are made for fast and disorganized games, which seems to be what Mourinho wants to avoid at all cost.
You must be deluded if you think the negativity around here (and around United in general) is to do with pre season alone. It's an amalgamation of the last two years (or more) ALONG with these pre season games. These pre season games have just acted as a catalyst; a reminder that things aren't great at the moment. Whether that's the team not playing as one, a lack of identity or plan, or just the general demeanour of our manager.State of this place after 2 pre season game
There's many contributing factors to the mood around the club at the moment; pre season is just one little aspect of it.
Its not that damning since the consensus of absolutely everybody that having 3 managers in 5 years gave us as much of a disjointed squad as possible.
How the hell does that make it any less damning?
And the reason i only chose the last two years is because i'm specifically talking about Jose's tenure. As we're in the Jose Mourinho thread. I wouldn't deny the upheaval in the last 5 years have contributed to our disjointed team, but he's now our manager and he has t sort it. And, again, the reason that's it's so damning is because we don't even look close to sorting it. I have no idea what we're trying to do.
You can go the complete opposite as well. Some pre-seasons under Fergie we looked like a pub-team.
Yeah, but I don't think there are many on here who detest José so badly that they actively want us to have a shite season. Some, perhaps – fans do seem to get pettier all the time, desperately wanting to be proven right about players and managers – but certainly still a clear minority. There's a minority of zealots on the other side as well, who will undoubtedly come up with all manner of crap to explain it away if he does feck up (or melt down) and leave.
I genuinely think most of those who say “hope he's gone by Christmas” don't actively want us to lose. It's merely a reflection of what they fully believe will happen, i.e. that that we won't improve and that he'll fall out with the players, etc. In which case he could be gone by Christmas, conceivably.
Anyway, most of the criticism we see now in the aftermath of a couple of pre-season games is just confirmation bias: he's negative, looks negative, the gloom will persist, etc. Objectively, we've fielded teams that couldn't possibly be cohesive - and José's grumpiness and whatnot is being overplayed.
Lastly, is what we've seen on the pitch an indication that he won't dramatically change his approach? Yes, of course it is - but did you * actually expect him to? Bring in a couple of new coaches - and become a radically different, attack minded manager? A joga bonito enthusiast who will never park a bus again? Come on. He won't change. Our hopes rest with him being able to get this United team to play actual Mourinho football - and not what looks like a pale and stale version of it.
* Not you, specifically
All the signals for the end of his reign are popping up. I'm getting vibes of his 07/08 Chelsea season where there was so much negativity surrounding the club in the summer. He was gone in September after incessant moaning and subpar results.
The truth is you don't have to be a Jose 'hater' to know Mourinho won't last here. He could survive this season but I don't see it being any longer than that. The fans and posters who said he wasn't a match for this club before he joined have proven to be correct. We're all miserable at the moment, fans, players and Mourinho.
The truth is you don't have to be a Jose 'hater' to know Mourinho won't last here. He could survive this season but I don't see it being any longer than that. The fans and posters who said he wasn't a match for this club before he joined have proven to be correct. We're all miserable at the moment, fans, players and Mourinho.
Or maybe we just know he won't be winning shit based on what we've seen over the last two seasons and would rather it ends sooner than laterSome of this lot would rather see Mourinho fail than United to win.
This is probably the best post I have read in this thread. Im still surprised by the fact that people think that Mourinho will wake up one morning having channelled his inner Bielsa, goes out and buys 3-4 players and plays champagne football.
As long as Mourinho is here he needs to be allowed (not that he cares what anyone thinks) to play his brand of football. It is what made him successful. You dont take the worlds best sushi-chef and make him cook pasta if you want your restaurant to be successful.
That said: I want him gone long term. Now is not the time though.
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