I think it was getting 2nd place which saved Jose's job.
The clear pattern which has emerged is that if you fail to qualify for CL - you're fired!
Moyes and LVG will both attest to this.
José Mourinho | 2018/19 Performances
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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The clear pattern which has emerged is that if you fail to qualify for CL - you're fired!
Moyes and LVG will both attest to this.
You expected us to challenge a team that got 100 points and scored 106 goals last season?
Whatever happens, he's going to fail no matter what in a lot of people's eyes.
Rashford for example, people out there are saying he's getting badly treated and not getting a chance in the first team and Mourinho is a cnut because of it.
When it's pointed out he's made more appearances than anyone bar De Gea, the goal posts are shifted and it's all about how he's not getting played as a striker and how it's a disgrace and Mourinho is ruining his career etc...
Rashford for example, people out there are saying he's getting badly treated and not getting a chance in the first team and Mourinho is a cnut because of it.
When it's pointed out he's made more appearances than anyone bar De Gea, the goal posts are shifted and it's all about how he's not getting played as a striker and how it's a disgrace and Mourinho is ruining his career etc...
It must be frustrating for Jose, listening to the criticism. People will just fire out with things like "he hates Shaw" or "he'll never play youngsters" only to get proven wrong. How he bites his tongue must take a lot of patience, because he proves the critics wrong in the end. Listening to Shaw today, he sounds really positive about what Jose has said to him. Yet until he said that you'd think he was a complete outcast given what gets peddled on here.
I realised quite early on that Jose is quite an honest person in his interviews. He'll happily just say it as it is. With that in mind, I believe him when he says that he's not happy with performances or wants to play more attacking, or when he tells us that he wanted his players to push forward, whilst they were parking the bus and he was getting the blame for it.
I realised quite early on that Jose is quite an honest person in his interviews. He'll happily just say it as it is. With that in mind, I believe him when he says that he's not happy with performances or wants to play more attacking, or when he tells us that he wanted his players to push forward, whilst they were parking the bus and he was getting the blame for it.
Another example of what I've just posted. The media feed off the crap some of our supporters come out with.
I would expect us yes. The same team was done in the CL by Pool. I'd expect us to be in the race at least until March. City are beatable, it is not they are invincible, we are shite. By the way, I'd also expect our genius manager to challenge Conte in his first season or at least win the FA cup a year later. This season, I am already ready for another toothless league campaign. Hopefully we will reach at least the quarters in CL.
The Arsenal game...Granted, Arsenal should have been about 10-2 up at one point but, that is exactly how we've played Arsenal over the last 10 years away from home, for the most part. Yet, Mourinho gets stick for it.
Jones is not good enough for this club, Rojo was shown up again at the World Cup, VAR will kill us if Chris Smalling is on the pitch...I can understand why he parks the bus.
I'm not happy with the football for the most part but, I appreciate the progress he has made with the club so far.
Agree with the FA cup.
But, expecting to challenge City? After finishing 6th the previous season, with some of the dross we have playing for us? Crazy stuff man!
We got the closest out of everyone else in the league. That's not a badge of honour or something we should be proud of but, it's a fact
City were very good last season there's no denying that. But with a season like that there's also a lot of good fortune involved. Avoiding injuries to key players, winning games in with goals in the final minutes, etc. Look at Madrid's 2011 - 2012 season, 100 points, 121 goals. The next season they ended with 85 points, very good still but a 15 point drop. If City end up this season with a similar point total (mid 80s) then there's no reason we shouldn't be right there with them and possibly win.
I agree. This season!
I was referring to last season! If a team perform like that, forget it! No challenge is happening.
As we of all clubs should know. 1999/00 and 00/01
Mou finished 6th, he got us there. Conte walked it then. Pep was considered to be found out in his first season, but a year after he tore a historic new one to the Prem. When the distance difference is a couple of meters and we are talking about few inches between the second best lot, I do not really care. We were out of the title race in December and I do not expect us to improve significantly this season. If anything I expect City to become even more ruthless, walk the league one more time and give it a real go in CL. Pep will get to 90+ pts again.
I'm pro- Mou and back him completely, and strangely enough I'm optimistic about this upcoming season. But last year was the most disappointing 2nd place finish possible. Being 2nd and knowing there was no chance of overtaking City was depressing. Our CL campaign was just downright depressing. With that said, Pogba missed significant time and during a key period when City just ran away with the league.
I really hope you are right, I'd love to be proven wrong by Jose. However, I fully expect another laboured league campaign, with people claiming that Pog is a lazy cnut, Martial doing feck all, Rashford having zero composure in front of goal and Jose not being able to bring in Perisic. We will not play United way, we will play boring Mou way which is a huge contrast to what he has built during his first stint at Chelsea. A total meltdown by Jose is on the cards too.
To be fair to Mourinho, this was blatantly clear in the home match against Liverpool in the second half. Can't remember many more examples but that was clear one when it was obvious the plan wasn't to sit so deep.
I can't remember Arsenal peppering our goal like that ever before and needing arguably the best GK performance of the season to save us.
We started off well, but we sat back way too deep afterwards. It was hardly a tactical masterclass imo.
Jose has had better managed games than that with us for sure.
What absolute bollocks. Expecting your team to get over 100pts is one of the most ridiculous things I've read in here. It takes huge luck on top of performance to reach that.
What Liverpool beating them in the CL has to do with us reaching 100pts i have no idea.
Don't read it then mate.
We've not even kicked a ball yet and the sniping and name-calling has started. There's clearly a lot of latent resentment towards Mou left over from last season.
He's got to start well. If he doesn't the situation is going to turn toxic very quickly.
He's got to start well. If he doesn't the situation is going to turn toxic very quickly.
Another day, another day seemingly wasted in the transfer market. Let’s hope we hear some positive things after the friendly in the morning.
Tbf to him, I really don't think he planned for that.
I've seen him do that at Chelsea and it was basically game over. Where as our defence....Well...Overrated comes to mind
Amazing.
80 points, yet we 'are shite'.
Such naivety by some fans confusing bland football with 'shite' results.
If we had got an attacking manager instead of Mourinho, we'd probably be sat about 4th like Spurs last season. Spurs, Chelsea and Liverpools squads are AT LEAST on par with United's yet they finished BELOW us. Why? Love it or hate it, because of our bland football and pragmatic manager.
Hate the football all you like, but don't try make out that 'we are shite' when we finished 2nd and beat every other side in the top 7 in the final 2 months of the season.
City can do 100 pts, it is absolutely expectable of us under Mou to stay at least relevant in the title race until March, instead of taking our pants off and bending over before Christmas. The mere fact that Pool managed to kick them out of CL and reach CL finals while finishing below us in the league shows that City are not something unimaginable and immaculate. The main difference are the coaches and their approach to the game which shows both in the Prem as well as CL. Now stick your bollocks up your arse, and get used to the idea that City are here to stay for a while and ut is up to Mou to catch them. So far, during his time with United, he has been much inferior to both Conte and Pep.
I agree with aspects of this, but I disagree with the "wants to play more attacking" bit
Klopp, Pep, Pochettino have all got their teams playing the right way. So either Mourinho isn't wanting to play that way (most likely) or his managerial ability isn't good enough to get the team playing that way (very unlikely)
This comment doesn't make sense.. Also I can understand pessimistic views but this one is plain ignorant.
It is truth and a fact. Look at Pep's career and the trend is clear. Once he gets the players he wants, he is unstoppable domestically, unless he gets really bored and goes elsewhere. However, his City side are not something to be really scared of, but their playing style is a direct reflection of their coach's idea and approach, while us doing nothing of note in the Prem and CL is a direct reflection of Jose's work which is nothing to write home about.
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I think that's one of the major problem that most anti Mourinho fans have, they believe that there is a right way to play football.
Mourinho doesn't play Pep-ball but, he has gotten all of his teams to date to play quick, incisive, winning football interspersed with disciplined (more defensive) performances for specific occasions.
He wants this team to make better decisions and move the ball quicker which should contribute to a more attacking game. He has stated this multiple times so either he doesn't have the right people for what he wants or the message had been ineffective so far. I think its a combination. He has made some changes so hopefully he is better able to bring across his principles.
But if Ed et tal wanted "football the right way", they got the wrong man.
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Don't bother mate, the Jose mob have convinced themselves its all about the money and as soon as Jose spends as much as Pep we'll start playing attacking football. Nothing to do with coaching. Some have even said Jose has to actually spend more than Pep to make up for the fact that Pep inherited KDB, Aguero and Silva. Ridiculous bullshit. Even if we find a way to finish below Pool and Spurs I'm sure they'll think of something.
Why are you acting like something is wrong by the fans who are worried about Marcus Rashford?
Rashford under LVG broke through & showed a level of consistency at playing a simple type of football where he was predominantly a clinical finisher much more than a forward who was asked to dribble. He consistently found him self at the right place at the right time; having the ability to score tap ins whilst occasionally able to beat a man or two at the very max.
Fast forward to Jose & what happens? He is (alongside martial) instantly dropped from a CF replaced by an ageing Ibrahinpvic & later Lukaku both being played as target men in a 4231 - whilst we may have improved points earned; considering we have yet to win anything that's worth our club history then some of us would have rather celebrated a player like Rashford & Martial coming of age & experience in positions that made them players with high expectations & quality before the arrival of Jose mourinho.
Since this is particularly about Rashford - there has been a fundamental change in the players level of impact, the players understanding & manipulation of playing within his best position, the players role & utilisation by the manager in charge.
Has Rashford got any chance of being José's central striker? No chance unless the boy takes steroids because the last time Jose used a permanent CF upfront that isn't a target man in a 4231 was back at Porto. What happens when Rashford does get a occasional charity game to play upfront? Football is played to him the same way Jose asks the team to play around Lukaku. It just won't work. What's worse is that the guy is so significantly rusty upfront that he isn't even that good enough to make a change now from the most simple of chances - the type of chances he was clinical under LVG. Whilst Rashford had the ability to occasionally take on his man to resemble a similarity to Ronaldo 9; he also showed the finer ability to do the simple stuff like Inzaghi - that's something significant he has lost since his management has changed.
Now instead of that the guy is taking free kicks & corners even though he legitamely doesn't have the finesse to cross the ball as a winger; never mind a set piece taker. Never mind arguing about martial but why is Rashford a winger right now? I understand unlike martial that Rashford grew up younger as a winger - but hardly any fans expected him to break through & impress as a winger - not many fans expected anything of him. LVG's chose him to play upfront after an injury & ultimately impressed with a level of consistency that was good for his age. He seemed to be one of our main strikers of the future. Fast forward 2 years with Jose we have 2 wingers talked about combinations of their raw ability to be winger, their work ethic, their attacking capabilities & more importantly their defensive capabilities - all the stuff we expect from a striker is not being used to compare Rashford & Martial's improvement - instead we have 2 damn wingers playing in the same ppsition also.
Due to José's inability to be flexible & analyse his squad before creating the formation & tactics that suit them to achievessomething beautiful yet successful - instead we get him trying to create his standard 4231 & buying players that purely match that formation by turning this in to his Chelsea v3 by even buying some of their previous players. Why do I bring this up? Because ultimately Rashford ( & martial) to Jose represents tactically a player more of the ilk of schrulle, duff, Robben, pandev, Di Maria than Central strikers. However that is purely because Rashford & Martial are not José's type of strikers like benni McCarthy,milit0, Drogba, ibrahinpvic & Lukaku. That is wrong.
Has there been even been one impressive full 90 mins by Rashford out wide? The guy looks absolutely average & worse than wellbeck out wide.
What I'd do for him to just say in the post match press conference/interview later that by the next game they would have made another signing.
I reckon he’ll be gone by the end of the season.
Him and Woodward don’t seem to have the best relationship, and I just don’t see our current squad as good enough to challenge.
Would Jose be happy with another year being miles off the top? We might of finished 2nd last season, but let’s not kid ourselves, we were nowhere near City.
Him and Woodward don’t seem to have the best relationship, and I just don’t see our current squad as good enough to challenge.
Would Jose be happy with another year being miles off the top? We might of finished 2nd last season, but let’s not kid ourselves, we were nowhere near City.
There is a lot of potential for improvement in our squad even without transfers. Things are no way as bad as people are making out!
Is there though?
We are hoping Pogba can kick on.
We hope Lukaku can get more than 16 league goals.
We are hoping Sanchez isn’t a complete flop.
To many if buts and maybes for me.
Rashford was pretty good out wide in the first half of the season. He lost form in the second half but I wish people wouldn't discredit his good performances before that. Even while he was playing well some were rooting for him to be dropped so Anthony Martial could play.
Other than that I agree that he lost a fair amount of what he showed under LVG. I'm not sure if that's down to Jose, his coaching team, or Rashford's seemingly unchecked desire to imitate C. Ronaldo.
This is what I have been saying for ages. But people will only say we need to buy more while failing to recognise that Jose has failed to get anywhere near acceptable standards of performances from an already very talented squad. Take Sanchez. I’m still of the opinion that he would be absolute murder in a Pep squad compared to his performances for us.
Another person with common sense
Sure that may be the case where he had a couple of good games but absolutely not comparable to his games upfront as a striker under a manager that many regard as worse than the one we have now.
Anyway - will Sanchez overtake Rashford on the wing? Definitely - again showing that Martial & Rashford were moved to the wing as a makeshift result of not being José's striker types & consequently replaced by a proper winger.
I'm on the verge of agreeing with this 'improve within' theory. We've been throwing the kichen sink at the market these past few years and we're still a peg or two below the level required. Then change the manager and it's still the same. It's no coincidence we end up playing our veterans as they at least get the club. The problems run far deeper than that but I've run out of ideas by now, just hoping it gets sorted.
I applaud the optimists amongst you who feel like this will be a successful season for Jose.
I wouldn't call myself a Jose hater but I've mentally prepared myself for a Jose meltdown this season. I really believe if we don't start the season well, the players will lose confidence in him. Nobody connected to Manchester United enjoyed the second half of last season,the fans, players and Mourinho all couldn't wait for the season to be over after being knocked out vs Sevilla. The City and Spurs games were amazing but aside from that the general mood around the club was desolation.
The players aren't fools. They are aware of the huge strides City and Liverpool have made under both their managers, they can also see the joy and freedom these players enjoy from the style of football employed. Let's be honest no kid dreams of playing defensive football but if you win trophies or punch above your weight, the ends justify the means. I can't imagine Griezmann enjoying Atletico football if they were finishing outside the CL spots.
His excuses have run out and so has time, he needs to deliver now. If he doesn't and draws for his pitiful excuses and starts too throw players under the bus as he's done already, he will lose the dressing room very quickly, the fans will follow as he's never truly been on our side and Woodward would be forced to act immediately.
In saying this, I hope we have a successful season but I just don't see it. Mourinho isn't the man for this club.
I wouldn't call myself a Jose hater but I've mentally prepared myself for a Jose meltdown this season. I really believe if we don't start the season well, the players will lose confidence in him. Nobody connected to Manchester United enjoyed the second half of last season,the fans, players and Mourinho all couldn't wait for the season to be over after being knocked out vs Sevilla. The City and Spurs games were amazing but aside from that the general mood around the club was desolation.
The players aren't fools. They are aware of the huge strides City and Liverpool have made under both their managers, they can also see the joy and freedom these players enjoy from the style of football employed. Let's be honest no kid dreams of playing defensive football but if you win trophies or punch above your weight, the ends justify the means. I can't imagine Griezmann enjoying Atletico football if they were finishing outside the CL spots.
His excuses have run out and so has time, he needs to deliver now. If he doesn't and draws for his pitiful excuses and starts too throw players under the bus as he's done already, he will lose the dressing room very quickly, the fans will follow as he's never truly been on our side and Woodward would be forced to act immediately.
In saying this, I hope we have a successful season but I just don't see it. Mourinho isn't the man for this club.
Probably the same way that some fans seem to know that Martial is a sulking footballer with no work ethic what so ever
He got Hazard playing pretty well, and Robben, and Duff, and countless others. Maybe, just maybe, Martial does lack something to become a truly great player.Probably the same way that some fans seem to know that Martial is a sulking footballer with no work ethic what so ever
Maybe it isn't Mourinho purposely sabotaging Martial's career gaining him nothing in the process.
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