Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[Kapardin]

Can we all agree that rebuilding job was always going to be difficult after last few seasons? . We are in great great position across all competition bar league cup. All of clubs bar one would gladly swap our position to theirs. We should be ecstatic with the way this season is going.

Yes, prior to the last 3 weeks, that was the case. But we are living dangerously now and if our form doesn't pick up, we could well fall off a cliff. I would have no problems with our current position if we were playing well and had a few bad results, but everything has deteriorated.

 

[Cassidy]

People say we're playing like a bunch of individuals and a not a team. I'd agree. There is a problem when players don't listen to the Manager and play to their own style/liking. Pogba seems to be the key example of this and Jose was right to tell him to look at the sign on the door. You play they way the Manager tells you to play. Jose has won numerous titles in numourous leagues with numerous teams. Play for the manager, play as a team.

So either all our players are not listening to the manager (we have not looked like a team but a bunch of individuals for a while) or the manager isn't setting us up to play like a team and is relying on individual brilliance to win games.

It certainly seems like the latter to me in an attacking sense.

 

[The Hacker]

It's his second season for feck sake. We're second to another world class manager who has spent £480m on a squad that was already far better than Uniteds. Jose's spent £310m. Maybe give him time to complete the job?



Pochettino is in his fourth season with Spurs now and still hasn't won anything. You can argue that he's spent less but the likes of Kane, Vertonghen, Erikson, Dembele and Lloris who make up the core of his squad were already there. If Mourinho had Kane, Vertonghen and Erikson he might not have spent the best part of £200m on Lukaku, Bailly and Pogba.



See above, it's his fourth season with the club. He's done well in the league, no denying that but he's sacrificed every cup run for it. We basically had to drop the priority of the league last season and focus on the EL due to injuries and it paid off. We have two trophies in the cabinet and are in the Champions League this season.

We're also second and as I said in another thread, our poor form consists of away losses to Spurs and Newcastle and an away draw to a revitalised Sevilla in a tough stadium. So in the last 10 games, aside from those three mentioned we've won all 7 of them scoring 16 and conceded 0.

Time for a bit of fecking perspective, please? Our midfield has been riddled with injuries for months and we're now trying to introduce Sanchez. It's no surprise things are a bit disjointed at the moment.

Good post.

 

[Adisa]

Not going to question his judgement but that sounds simplistic imo.
Part of our problem is we don't attack in enough numbers and we drop too deep when we don't have the ball. Those issues aren't addressed in those comments.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Which manager won two trophies last year? Which is the most successful active manager in Europe?

We won two small trophies last year (perfectably acceptable for year 1) but the concern is that progress looks to have stalled and we are boring to watch. All depends on the next 2 months - a strong finish in the league combined with a decent showing in the ECL and we will go into the summer believing that with a few more signings we’ll be back. If we continue churning out the disjointed rubbish we’ve seen recently and end up in a scramble for 4th with ongoing rumours about player unrest, then any optimism will evaporate.

By the way, Jupp Heynkes might query your second sentence.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

None of our attacking players ever played under Ferguson, basically. Martial, Rashford, Lingard, Mata, Martial, Sanchez, Lukaku... none of them. The only remnants of the SAF era who still play regularly are in the back five.

Didn’t it take Fergie 4 years to win the league after he took us over?

 

[Rajma]

It's his second season for feck sake. We're second to another world class manager who has spent £480m on a squad that was already far better than Uniteds. Jose's spent £310m. Maybe give him time to complete the job?

Pochettino is in his fourth season with Spurs now and still hasn't won anything. You can argue that he's spent less but the likes of Kane, Vertonghen, Erikson, Dembele and Lloris who make up the core of his squad were already there. If Mourinho had Kane, Vertonghen and Erikson he might not have spent the best part of £200m on Lukaku, Bailly and Pogba.

See above, it's his fourth season with the club. He's done well in the league, no denying that but he's sacrificed every cup run for it. We basically had to drop the priority of the league last season and focus on the EL due to injuries and it paid off. We have two trophies in the cabinet and are in the Champions League this season.

We're also second and as I said in another thread, our poor form consists of away losses to Spurs and Newcastle and an away draw to a revitalised Sevilla in a tough stadium. So in the last 10 games, aside from those three mentioned we've won all 7 of them scoring 16 and conceded 0.

Time for a bit of fecking perspective, please? Our midfield has been riddled with injuries for months and we're now trying to introduce Sanchez. It's no surprise things are a bit disjointed at the moment.

Yeah just ignore the fact that those players became who they are now and improved drastically under Poch, how many players you can, confidently, say Jose improved from the time he stepped in? Lingard potentially (last few months, jury is still out if he can produce consistently), who else really? That's where issue lies with him, and I'm not even advocating for Poch as I don't think he would be good enough either just pointing this out.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Didn’t it take Fergie 4 years to win the league after he took us over?

You're comparing Sir Alex's situation taking over at United with Jose's? Laughable if so.

 

[MP1711]

We won two small trophies last year (perfectably acceptable for year 1) but the concern is that progress looks to have stalled and we are boring to watch. All depends on the next 2 months - a strong finish in the league combined with a decent showing in the ECL and we will go into the summer believing that with a few more signings we’ll be back. If we continue churning out the disjointed rubbish we’ve seen recently and end up in a scramble for 4th with ongoing rumours about player unrest, then any optimism will evaporate.

By the way, Jupp Heynkes might query your second sentence.

José has twice the trophies.

 

[Smores]

Yeah just ignore the fact that those players became who they are now and improved drastically under Poch, how many players you can, confidently, say Jose improved from the time he stepped in? Lingard potentially (last few months, jury is still out if he can produce consistently), who else really? That's where issue lies with him, and I'm not even advocating for Poch as I don't think he would be good enough either just pointing this out.

Are you really implying those players pnly became good because of Poch?

 

[Axkiko]

Why don't Mourinho try once to places Sanchez on the right and Martial on left? Stubborn. He is pushing the best young player on his squad to leave once again, after De Byrune and Salah.

He is in favor of a tall young lad like McTomiany because of his outdated philosophy. He thought the monster physicality philosophy could transform us to the title, like his old Chelsea side with Drogba, Essien and Terry. Outdated.

 

[BluesJr]

Why don't Mourinho try once to places Sanchez on the right and Martial on left? Stubborn. He is pushing the best young player on his squad to leave once again, after De Byrune and Salah.

He is in favor of a tall young lad like McTomiany because of his philosophy.

We don’t know that, it’s too early to tell. All of these situations including Pogba and Martial, will be played out in the next few months and only then combined with the results we see will make up my mind on him.

I’m not convinced he’s learned from his previous failings and in these next few months he’s going to convince that he’s in control of this team and able to get big results when we need them.

He’s also going to have to convince me that he’s able to resolve these situations involving Pogba and Martial, alongside Alexis these two are most talented outfield players and the fact there are doubts over their futures is sad and actually a bit infuriating.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

You're comparing Sir Alex's situation taking over at United with Jose's? Laughable if so.

Why laughable?

In the 3 seasons prior to Fergie we had finished 4th,4th,4th and won 2 league cups.

The 3 seasons prior to Jose we had finished 7th,4th,5th, won 1 league cup and 1 FA cup.

So comparing the situation at the club prior to the 2 managers taking over is hardly laughable.

Don’t worry, I’m not implying Jose is the new Fergie. Just that they have similar scale of job and it took Fergie a good few seasons to get it right. A fair comparison in my book.

 

[Borden]

Why laughable?

In the 3 seasons prior to Fergie we had finished 4th,4th,4th and won 2 league cups.

The 3 seasons prior to Jose we had finished 7th,4th,5th, won 1 league cup and 1 FA cup.

So comparing the situation at the club prior to the 2 managers taking over is hardly laughable.

Don’t worry, I’m not implying Jose is the new Fergie. Just that they have similar scale of job and it took Fergie a good few seasons to get it right. A fair comparison in my book.

Because the situation the club was in when SAF took over vs. when Mourinho took over isn't comparable at all. We weren't the behemoth when SAF took over that we are today. It isn't similar at all, now matter how desperately the Mourinho fans want to think so.

 

[E-mal]

José has twice the trophies.

Feck the trophies, I want to enjoy football again.
Nobody was born with trophies in his hands. Opportunity mate.
Valverde, Enrique, Zidane and many more where largely untested before they won catalogue of trophies.

 

[Kapardin]

Why don't Mourinho try once to places Sanchez on the right and Martial on left? Stubborn. He is pushing the best young player on his squad to leave once again, after De Byrune and Salah.

He is in favor of a tall young lad like McTomiany because of his outdated philosophy. He thought the monster physicality philosophy could transform us to the title, like his old Chelsea side with Drogba, Essien and Terry. Outdated.

He's not been doing too well in recent weeks. Regarding the Martial news, why bench him immediately for a bad performance against Spurs when he had been scoring and doing well in general before then? While others like Lukaku get a free pass no matter what they do.

We needed one more attacker and in hindsight, Sanchez was a shrewd buy. But he needs to start Martial on the left and Sanchez on the right or behind the striker.

Regarding McTominay, I don't think he favors him merely for height or physicality. He just likes it when a player follows instructions, and he had no other to use as a prop to take a dig at Pogba.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Because the situation the club was in when SAF took over vs. when Mourinho took over isn't comparable at all. We weren't the behemoth when SAF took over that we are today. It isn't similar at all, now matter how desperately the Mourinho fans want to think so.

That’s not true, not sure you know the history of the club. We were big before the Premiership you know. In comparison to the other clubs in England we were well supported and well financed, even in the 80’s.

Fergie spent 2.7m in his first full season which I believe was the biggest spend that season. We had also broken the British transfer record spend at £1.5m for Bryan Robson way back in 1981 which held for over a decade.

It’s not about being a Mourinho fan. I’m not. I just want what’s best for the club. It’s about being balanced and looking at the conditions at the club before the manager took over.

 

[Borden]

That’s not true, not sure you know the history of the club. We were big before the Premiership you know. In comparison to the other clubs in England we were well supported and well financed.

Fergie spent 2.7m in his first full season which I believe was the biggest spend that season. We had also broken the British transfer record spend at £1.5m for Bryan Robson way back in 1981 which held for over a decade.

It’s not about being a Mourinho fan. I’m not. I just want what’s best for the club. It’s about being balanced and looking at the conditions at the club before the manager took over.

Yes we were. But we weren't the behemoth we are now. That's simply undeniable. And SAF took over a club that had not won the league in 19 years, and had been relegated in the mean time. It's a pointless comparison, and you could just as easily have used the same line of argument to defend LvG (but for some reason none of you seem to want to).

 

[Bastian]

Why don't Mourinho try once to places Sanchez on the right and Martial on left? Stubborn. He is pushing the best young player on his squad to leave once again, after De Byrune and Salah.

He is in favor of a tall young lad like McTomiany because of his outdated philosophy. He thought the monster physicality philosophy could transform us to the title, like his old Chelsea side with Drogba, Essien and Terry. Outdated.

Simplistic summary of what he's done. The only player that could be remotely applicable to is Lukaku. Mainly, Jose's added genuine quality to a side that sorely lacked it. He's still in the process of doing so.

Also, to characterise Drogba, Essien and Terry merely as physical monsters is ignoring that they were all world class players in their positions. If it's outdated to acquire world class players or players with that type of potential then I wonder what's in fashion these days.

 

[Jazz]

In my opinion he's in trouble - and unfortunately so are we. I have no confidence that he will get us a win against Chelsea on Sunday - leaving us on the brink of exiting the top four.

He's picking a fight with Pogba for what reason I don't know.

Most concerning is the way he has the team playing - we're not solid defensively, we do nothing offensively, our midfield is neither here nor there. I cannot tell what we are meant to be doing, or what he wants from the team.

Then he puts Sanchez in a position where we already had players performing in that role. We've lost points because of Jose's failure to have a proper plan on how to integrate Sanchez into the team with a minimum amount of disruption. Sanchez, a quality player, has arguably made us worse. I have to blame the manager for that.

That game against Sevilla has left me completely depressed - not because it was 0-0 - but because we didn't look like any kind of a team. I felt embarrassed watching us. A manager of his stature should be doing much much better than this. I can't figure out what his problem is, but if he doesn't get a hold of things and the season worsens, Ed will pull the trigger and rightly so.

 

[MoskvaRed]

José has twice the trophies.

Two European Cups each (and Heynkes’s more recent).

 

[ash_86]

Yes, prior to the last 3 weeks, that was the case. But we are living dangerously now and if our form doesn't pick up, we could well fall off a cliff. I would have no problems with our current position if we were playing well and had a few bad results, but everything has deteriorated.

We had a bad period. The same could happen for any team competing for top 4. I trust Mourinho is experienced enough to pull through than any of the peer managers.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Yes we were. But we weren't the behemoth we are now. That's simply undeniable. And SAF took over a club that had not won the league in 19 years, and had been relegated in the mean time. It's a pointless comparison, and you could just as easily have used the same line of argument to defend LvG (but for some reason none of you seem to want to).

I’m not sure why you’ve got a bee in your bonnet about this. My point is that it took SAF a good few years to get us capable of winning trophies and people need to assess a managers performance (at least) at the end of a season. I would suggest the same for LVG. But more so for Mourinho because we have made progress (currently 2nd and we won 2 trophies last season)

Define behemoth? If you mean in terms of fans and revenue, yes of course we have grown. But so have other clubs. It’s undeniable, but irrelevant to the comparison, because both managers had the same advantage over competing clubs.

We’d finished 3rd or 4th for every season after 1981 before Sir Alex. So whether it’s 19 years without winning the league or 4 years doesn’t make much difference to the challenge for the incoming manager when a ‘winning’ squad and setup all need to be built from scratch.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Yes we were. But we weren't the behemoth we are now. That's simply undeniable. And SAF took over a club that had not won the league in 19 years, and had been relegated in the mean time. It's a pointless comparison, and you could just as easily have used the same line of argument to defend LvG (but for some reason none of you seem to want to).

When Van Gaal was the manager people tried that argument.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Why laughable?

In the 3 seasons prior to Fergie we had finished 4th,4th,4th and won 2 league cups.

The 3 seasons prior to Jose we had finished 7th,4th,5th, won 1 league cup and 1 FA cup.

So comparing the situation at the club prior to the 2 managers taking over is hardly laughable.

Don’t worry, I’m not implying Jose is the new Fergie. Just that they have similar scale of job and it took Fergie a good few seasons to get it right. A fair comparison in my book.

No it is completely laughable. You may be conveniently leaving out the teeny tiny detail that Sir Alex turned this club into an absolutely giant one over those twenty years with absolutely top class resources and money flowing out of our ears.

The scale of the jobs couldn't be more different.

 

[SwSw]

No it is completely laughable. You may be conveniently leaving out the teeny tiny detail that Sir Alex turned this club into an absolutely giant one over those twenty years with absolutely top class resources and money flowing out of our ears.

The scale of the jobs couldn't be more different.

How is it that much different? I won't say is identical but would argue is similar.

Let's not forget that is much more competitive now compared to back then. The supposedly smaller clubs are richer and they can afford to say no or hold the bigger club to a ransom. For example, City vs Leicester.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

How is it that much different? I won't say is identical but would argue is similar.

Let's not forget that is much more competitive now compared to back then. The supposedly smaller clubs are richer and they can afford to say no or hold the bigger club to a ransom. For example, City vs Leicester.

The money in Football is more concentrated to a few big clubs than it has ever been before.

 

[SwSw]

The money in Football is more concentrated to a few big clubs than it has ever been before.

I disagree.

Back then, we could go to Spurs and get Berbatov or any of their best players if we wanted to. Try that now with Levy and the money they have. We can't deny that competition have went up due to the extra influx of cash.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

I disagree.

Back then, we could go to Spurs and get Berbatov or any of their best players if we wanted to. Try that now with Levy and the money they have. We can't deny that competition have went up due to the extra influx of cash.

Well they were not a CL club back then and they just lost Kyle Walker to City.

 

[SwSw]

Well they were not a CL club back then and they just lost Kyle Walker to City.

And yet they are now. Shows how money plays an important role. The wealth is much more distributed nowadays. The richer/bigger clubs are still ahead but the gap has definitely reduced as compared to say 10 years ago.

Walker got his head turned and iirc, City paid a premium for him.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

And yet they are now. Shows how money plays an important role. The wealth is much more distributed nowadays. The richer/bigger clubs are still ahead but the gap has definitely reduced as compared to say 10 years ago.

Walker got his head turned and iirc, City paid a premium for him.

Spurs still have half the budget of Liverpool. And it looks like they might lose Alderweireld because they can not afford his wages. Bayern have more than double the wage bill of anyone else in Germany. Everyone in Spain still lags far behind Real and Barca in terms of budget. Football is more stacked in the favor of the big clubs than ever.

 

[Canagel]

Does Jose ever take blame for anything? He always has to blame others from players not giving everything and fans for being quiet to referees or bad luck. When has he ever said after a bad result "sorry I take responsibility"? It's a bad attitude that needs to stop because he'll never make the changes we want if he doesn't take the blame for the team's shortcomings. When the team plays well we're quick to label him 'tactical genius' so when we don't perform he has to take the responsibility.

 

[SwSw]

Spurs still have half the budget of Liverpool. And it looks like they might lose Alderweireld because they can not afford his wages. Bayern have more than double the wage bill of anyone else in Germany. Everyone in Spain still lags far behind Real and Barca in terms of budget. Football is more stacked in the favor of the big clubs than ever.

Spurs can afford his wage, they just do not want to break their wage structure.

The Bundesliga and La Liga are 1/2 horse races. Nothing surprising there. Let's not forget the TV rights at La Liga pretty much favors RM and Barca. However, the wealth distribution in the EPL has helped many lesser clubs compete. There's numbers on how the bottom clubs in the EPL paying/earning more than the few top clubs in Germany/Spain. Arguing that football is in favor of the bigger clubs is wrong considering the EPL has become much more competitive.

 

[Z1L3]

There's too much overreacting going on based on every performance, and it's a long season with lots of ups and downs. Pundits were calling for Conte's head just a few weeks ago after two bad losses; now it's already in the past.

 

[gajender]

There's too much overreacting going on based on every performance, and it's a long season with lots of ups and downs. Pundits were calling for Conte's head just a few weeks ago after two bad losses; now it's already in the past.

Can't agree with that our performances have been getting worse as the season has progressed when was the last time we actually played well , in fact Mourinho seem to be getting benefit of not being Moyes or Van Gaal he needs to sort this mess otherwise he would also suffer the same fate as those two.

 

[fellaini's barber]

Why laughable?

In the 3 seasons prior to Fergie we had finished 4th,4th,4th and won 2 league cups.

The 3 seasons prior to Jose we had finished 7th,4th,5th, won 1 league cup and 1 FA cup.

So comparing the situation at the club prior to the 2 managers taking over is hardly laughable.

Don’t worry, I’m not implying Jose is the new Fergie. Just that they have similar scale of job and it took Fergie a good few seasons to get it right. A fair comparison in my book.

When Jose was Jose he took over an unknown Chelsea and turned them to serial PL winners in one season, same with Inter. Several years later you claim him taking over United is similar to Fergie 20+ years ago and he needs several years to 'get it right'. Maybe we're a bigger challenge than Chelsea right? I thought I was done reading this nonsense when the LVG defence squad used it throughout his tenure , I'm shocked a anyone would use it to defend Jose in his second season seeing as he's hardly stayed anywhere beyond the 3rd season. Similar scale of job my arse

 

[andersj]

When Jose was Jose he took over an unknown Chelsea and turned them to serial PL winners in one season, same with Inter. Several years later you claim him taking over United is similar to Fergie 20+ years ago and he needs several years to 'get it right'. Maybe we're a bigger challenge than Chelsea right? I thought I was done reading this nonsense when the LVG defence squad used it throughout his tenure , I'm shocked a anyone would use it to defend Jose in his second season seeing as he's hardly stayed anywhere beyond the 3rd season. Similar scale of job my arse

- Chelsea spent more money compared to their rivals than any clubs in modern history,
- Inter was an established serial winner without competition in Serie A (he added some spice and did a great job winning the CL, but the foundation was there),
- Real Madrid had been going through a rough patch before Mourinho came, but look at the quality of players at his disposal after a year of two!

I think Mourinho is quite good at assessing players, and identifying quality players. He has been lucky enough to be in charge of clubs where he has had several world class players. Players that dont need a system or a structure to guide them. And this is the only way Mourinho will ever succeed.

Because Mourinho, unlike his peers, do not establish a system or structure on how to play out from the back or an attacking pattern/system on the last third. Consequently, the weakness of our players are easily exposed.

Unlike the average players of Liverpool, Chelsea or Spurs who have a system to develop within. Both in attack and in defence.

That is also the reason why I think Mourinho is a fraud, and why I have never understood his rating in the UK.

 

[Jeppers7]

Fergie restructured the whole club from top to bottom. The youth structure, drink culture, mentality, attitude, stadium, training facilities, the coach driver sitting on the bench ffs ! all needed overhauling when he arrived. In the years following he also played a large part in transforming the club from an English sleeping giant to a global giant.

The initial task was the biggest and he saw the bigger picture and took the long road to get things right.

There is very little Jose needs to sort out in those areas. He needs to sort his own tactics out, train some attacking strategies and stop picking fights with players constantly and unnecessarily. Everything is there for him to succeed he just seems to be getting in the way of it.

 

[Z1L3]

- Chelsea spent more money compared to their rivals than any clubs in modern history,
- Inter was an established serial winner without competition in Serie A (he added some spice and did a great job winning the CL, but the foundation was there),
- Real Madrid had been going through a rough patch before Mourinho came, but look at the quality of players at his disposal after a year of two!

I think Mourinho is quite good at assessing players, and identifying quality players. He has been lucky enough to be in charge of clubs where he has had several world class players. Players that dont need a system or a structure to guide them. And this is the only way Mourinho will ever succeed.

Because Mourinho, unlike his peers, do not establish a system or structure on how to play out from the back or an attacking pattern/system on the last third. Consequently, the weakness of our players are easily exposed.

Unlike the average players of Liverpool, Chelsea or Spurs who have a system to develop within. Both in attack and in defence.

That is also the reason why I think Mourinho is a fraud, and why I have never understood his rating in the UK.

Now I've heard it all.

 

[Sky1981]

- Chelsea spent more money compared to their rivals than any clubs in modern history,
- Inter was an established serial winner without competition in Serie A (he added some spice and did a great job winning the CL, but the foundation was there),
- Real Madrid had been going through a rough patch before Mourinho came, but look at the quality of players at his disposal after a year of two!

I think Mourinho is quite good at assessing players, and identifying quality players. He has been lucky enough to be in charge of clubs where he has had several world class players. Players that dont need a system or a structure to guide them. And this is the only way Mourinho will ever succeed.

Because Mourinho, unlike his peers, do not establish a system or structure on how to play out from the back or an attacking pattern/system on the last third. Consequently, the weakness of our players are easily exposed.

Unlike the average players of Liverpool, Chelsea or Spurs who have a system to develop within. Both in attack and in defence.

That is also the reason why I think Mourinho is a fraud, and why I have never understood his rating in the UK.

I'm speechless