I am gonna guess that they were given the instruction to punt it to fellaini and Lukaku, maybe you diddidn't notice this but Fellaini kept running forward to receive one of those long balls.
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
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Probably total BS, but do you think there could be a reasoning - or at least a twisted sort of logic - in Jose not totally committing to the cause last night?
I think there are a few things that may have been in his mind. As there was virtually no chance of us winning the UCL, getting knocked out by a side we really should be beating puts pressure on the board to invest more in the team, as it isn't hitting its targets. Woodward said a few months ago that we had highlighted the quarter finals as a satisfactory showing in the competition. This essentially translates as "if a big team draws us, we don't expect to win". There is no real suggestion that Jose won't be here next season, so he'll want to have as many funds made available to him as possible this next window. To not invest properly would send out the message that the sort of showing we put in last night is acceptable. There's no way anyone around the club can think that.
Also, for his own personal glory, Jose loves to win trophies. It's what he's known for above all else, and is the argument his supporters turn to when his style of football is questioned. The FA Cup is far more likely a source of success for us this season, and something Jose identified pretty early on this season as something he'd like to win this time round. He's only won it once in his managerial career, to win it again would further cement his legacy as a master of the English domestic game.
Now watch us get knocked out by Brighton on Saturday.
I think there are a few things that may have been in his mind. As there was virtually no chance of us winning the UCL, getting knocked out by a side we really should be beating puts pressure on the board to invest more in the team, as it isn't hitting its targets. Woodward said a few months ago that we had highlighted the quarter finals as a satisfactory showing in the competition. This essentially translates as "if a big team draws us, we don't expect to win". There is no real suggestion that Jose won't be here next season, so he'll want to have as many funds made available to him as possible this next window. To not invest properly would send out the message that the sort of showing we put in last night is acceptable. There's no way anyone around the club can think that.
Also, for his own personal glory, Jose loves to win trophies. It's what he's known for above all else, and is the argument his supporters turn to when his style of football is questioned. The FA Cup is far more likely a source of success for us this season, and something Jose identified pretty early on this season as something he'd like to win this time round. He's only won it once in his managerial career, to win it again would further cement his legacy as a master of the English domestic game.
Now watch us get knocked out by Brighton on Saturday.
We need short term success. Maybe not the title, but we need to be winning something here and there after Ferguson to keep the winning mentality. That’s his point being here, I would say.
I honestly think that if we get a attacking manager and see attacking football, still it won’t be enough with the fan base. You would think that we would be ok not winning but just get entertaining football, but that would wear off.
Hell, you think Liverpool would be happy just with klopp for another 3 years without winning anything? Or take Arsenal for example, you think they just enjoyed all the supposed “stylish football” they played without winning anything. Or even would we take that? Even when SAF was winning in the last few years, we were complaining about style. So, I don’t believe in saying that we would be happy with just better style of football. I don’t think you meant that in exact same way, but most posters in here seem to suggest that it’s enough for them. But few years down the line, they would be up in arms again. I would be curious to see how a poll would look when it’s entertaining football vs winning.
Fans want everything and it’s not being spoiled. It’s natural human instinct to seek everything and anything.
I don't mind being a "defensive minded" team, but I will never accept that low level of performance.
The fact we look like a bunch of strangers on the pitch is really strange and worrying, how can a team as big as us be that bad?
The whole world was laughing at us last night. Jose can never let that happen again, if he does he can go ASAP.
The fact we look like a bunch of strangers on the pitch is really strange and worrying, how can a team as big as us be that bad?
The whole world was laughing at us last night. Jose can never let that happen again, if he does he can go ASAP.
He gave Fellaini far more license that he’s ever given Pogba which says a lot I think.
Ultimately with regards to last night - sh*t happens. Our players cacked their pants, Sevilla players looked like Real Madrid, we lost 2-1 and got knocked out of the Champions League. It doesn't take away the progress that we've been making since LVG, no reason to think we won't continue our progress next season ensuring this will not be a recurring event.
Yes yes of course you are majestically and perfectly right, excuse and pardon me for having an opinion.....
I don't really understand why people use this as an argument. We were shite under LvG, and it would have been quite the achievement to not make any progress from that, especially after spending a fortune on new players.
Yes yes Mr keyboard warrior you are majestically right and perfect, just excuse and pardon me all over the place for having an opinion....
So instead of throwing himself under the bus to protect his players which is fair giving we lost because of his garbage tactics, he chose to throw the club's prestige under the bus and specifically SAF and say it is nothing new, SAF regularly get knocked out at the 16 round. Coward.
I offered a differing opinion based on facts. I apologize for that.
LVG did fell short of it though. Boring games with no CL.
If this is Jose's game with no CL place or trophies to show for, he should also be sacked. We should give him one more year to get complete his rebuild and evaluate him again.
We do have lot of improvements to show this year and if we can add a FA cup with a second place finish, I would certainly consider it as a successful season.
You don't think progress is relevant to judging managerial performance?
Not necessarily, no. When Conte took over Chelsea they had finished 10th in the previous season. So if he'd finished 9th with a higher points total in his first season it would technically have been progress, but that wouldn't have been very relevant would it?
No because that wouldn't be sufficient progress. I would say that going from 5th place to 2nd place (behind the greatest side the Premier League has seen) plus two (maybe three) trophies, within two years, is sufficient progress.
I'm more concerned about our style of play and the performances of the players than the results. I don't see anything remotely resembling sufficient progress in that department. And I'm not seeing any reason to think that we will continue to progress when we're playing such negative, sloppy, soul-destroying football.
Is he that bad at building teams for the future though? I look through his signings and i dont see that much to criticise really. Mikhitariyan who didn't have the attitude and confidence i guess, good player and right idea though imo.
Like if Guardiola walked in tomorrow how many players would he need to sign to be happy? 2 full backs and maybe a defender. Probably a midfielder but he could just make better use of Hererra, Mata and Pereirra. I presume he'd walk in and spend a crap load because ... why wouldn't he, but the squad wouldn't need major surgery imo. And all the signings Mourinho's polar opposite would absolutely need Mourinho needs too.
It might be wise to take a real half assed approach to moving players on in the summer, Blind could be useful under a different manager. Same with Pereirra and Mata who might not be high in Mourinho's plans. If he wants to sell Martial or Pogba i'd frankly ignore him and tell him to cop on.
Whoever comes in after has a good squad to work with and should have a relatively easy time getting players on board after Mourinho.
Well performances of player is by definiton linked to results, and is there for all to see Sevilla aside.
Style of play has much improved since LVG also but in any case right now results have to take priority to ensure we don't do a Liverpool/Arsenal.
Oh i agree - he's mostly good in terms of transfers in seeing what's needed. What I meant more of is building a teams style for the future. You see some managers come in and they leave a lasting impact in terms of style of play, no matter where they go. Other managers come in and when they leave it changes completely. Usually if a team is going for a dominant style of play, the next manager won't change too much.
I've been on Mourinho's back for a bit, but I just really don't see where we are going with him.
Let's look at last season. We had an average league performance, won the LC and Mourinho, by the skin of his teeth kept his job with a juttering EL win
Compare that to this season.
Out of the LC to a weak side, out of the CL to a weak side and if I take our average points this season, then we'd finish on 82 points. An improvement by 12 points.
You've got to ask yourself, after a poor outing last season, with money spent, is 12 points an excellent season, expected season, or slightly below average performance?
Finishing top 4 will secure his job I think, but I just don't know where we'd be going next season. I've already said to my mate I'm not going to renew my membership, because quite honestly, the stuff we show isn't worth the money.
We bought one of the leagues most prolific strikers.
We brought in one of the best players in the league the last few seasons
Golden boy winner Martial
Golden boy winner Pogba
2 time runner up Golden boy Rashford
and yet Mourinho plays the most the utter garbage he does. We have some great attacking talent, and they are held back by a manager whose scared to attack home and away. He wants a little bit of magic from a forward every game to grab us the win, but beyond that, he's scared.
The players are accountable of course, but they are playing to Jose's instructions.
I'd love to see Martial, Rashford or Sanchez in a Liverpool or City attack, you'd see a completely different player in them.
Let's look at last season. We had an average league performance, won the LC and Mourinho, by the skin of his teeth kept his job with a juttering EL win
Compare that to this season.
Out of the LC to a weak side, out of the CL to a weak side and if I take our average points this season, then we'd finish on 82 points. An improvement by 12 points.
You've got to ask yourself, after a poor outing last season, with money spent, is 12 points an excellent season, expected season, or slightly below average performance?
Finishing top 4 will secure his job I think, but I just don't know where we'd be going next season. I've already said to my mate I'm not going to renew my membership, because quite honestly, the stuff we show isn't worth the money.
We bought one of the leagues most prolific strikers.
We brought in one of the best players in the league the last few seasons
Golden boy winner Martial
Golden boy winner Pogba
2 time runner up Golden boy Rashford
and yet Mourinho plays the most the utter garbage he does. We have some great attacking talent, and they are held back by a manager whose scared to attack home and away. He wants a little bit of magic from a forward every game to grab us the win, but beyond that, he's scared.
The players are accountable of course, but they are playing to Jose's instructions.
I'd love to see Martial, Rashford or Sanchez in a Liverpool or City attack, you'd see a completely different player in them.
Genuinely thinking just shoot me now if this is what we have to look forward to, get rid of some of our best technical and flair players for workhorses that play utter dog football, yeah, absolutely cannot wait
This keeps on being banded around but it really isn’t true. Sevilla were already last night and looked decent in the middle of the park but they weren’t that impressive – their attack were often quite limp in front of goal aside from a brief inspired spell, and for the most part we’d been keeping them at bay with relative ease. The result was more down to our poor performance than their impressive one. And considering it’s a tie played over two legs, if our 2-1 defeat was the issue then we should’ve made a more active effort to win in the away tie, something that again comes down to Mourinho who instead opted for a dull but fairly pointless 0-0 draw.
Spot on. Mourinho's the one who always talks about the players following his philosophy. He's the one who took a big strop when Chelsea imploded on his watch, because "the players sabotaged my work." He deserves the shit he's getting. When we win, he's more than happy to rub it in peoples face how he proved the critics wrong.
He's not the man for our club. His sides are ugly. This is the most talented United team in a decade. It's stunning how average we look in attack. Busby and Ferguson at their worst would adhere to the idea that players need to express themselves. Mourinho doesnt allow that. He wants them well drilled. Which is why he's a short term manager and it usually goes tits up with everyone from the board to the players hating him. It's been way to long that we've been a proper attacking team. And not just an attacking team due to convenience. I'd rather we played good stuff, even if we aren't winning the league every year, than this shit.
Fellaini and Matic starting as a pair at home to Sevilla, man. feck me.
You could even extend the Conte analogy to argue if he’d, say, taken them from 10th to 6th; even then the obvious improvement still wouldn’t have been anywhere near enough compared to expectations and compared to what his squad was capable of achieving. I do think Mourinho’s improved us but anyone using LVG or Moyes as a metric for comparison is cheating.
Leverkusen were a small club, but were well worthy of beating us that night. They got to the final, so they werent a bad team at all. Lille didnt knock us out. We went out of the groups, but that was a one off. And Galatasary, were in the pocket. We werent winning that game, before the kick off started.
Shit happens, I get that. But Ferguson's approach to games were always good. He'd have murdered that Sevilla team with his worst squad.
I wouldn't mind making Zlatan our next manager. He is well respected, charismatic, intelligent and tactically aware. He is a legend of the game and I think he can be a really good manager. Madrid did it with Zidane, Barca did it with Pep, why can't we do it with Zlatan?
Obviously it is never going to happen but I think it would've been a breath of fresh air after going with the so-called proven managers who are clearly past it.
Obviously it is never going to happen but I think it would've been a breath of fresh air after going with the so-called proven managers who are clearly past it.
Agree with that.
Mourinho should have watched some of our CL knockout games at home under Fergie. We used to storm the opposition from the get go, that was lifting the players and the fans up, the atmosphere was rocking. Yesterday was a complete opposite of that. We were sitting back and after 20 minutes the nerves settled in, the atmosphere was shit and the players were affected by that.
Yah hence I said "looked like", we made them look good. Doesn't change any of the rest of my post The 0-0 away draw shouldn't be sniffed at though, as Roma and Barcelona (Leicester last year) showed home advantage can still count for a lot.
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He’s being criticised left right and center in every media outlet. And he deserves it for the way he’s set us up against Sevilla. He needs to learn and learn fast that we have an attacking tradition, not a defensive one against teams we are expected to beat.
That said, the players are not blameless. Some of them went missing, and some have been just plain crap despite being paid so much.
That said, the players are not blameless. Some of them went missing, and some have been just plain crap despite being paid so much.
He can get his move to PSG if he wants. Emery would not be a bad consolation prize.
As has Jose. I'd give him another year as well because we have improved but not because he's had a successful season or met his objectives. At a club the size of Manchester United winning a big trophy constitutes a successful season.
Mourinho was instrumental in our past three wins prior to Seville. I honestly don't know what got into him for that game and he totally bottled. This is something I'm sure he realizes.
We are a comfortable second in the league and generally doing well, so I'm inclined to give Jose more leeway. Another transfer window with a couple of high quality additions and some more deadwood like fellani out and we'll be even better next season.
We are a comfortable second in the league and generally doing well, so I'm inclined to give Jose more leeway. Another transfer window with a couple of high quality additions and some more deadwood like fellani out and we'll be even better next season.
Thanks K
Ridiculous management by him for the Sevilla game. I've been genuinely happy with the progress we've made under him and would be happy if he remained manager, but that game against Sevilla was baffling, that's even with taking into consideration the fact that we probably would have never been able to win the competition.
Those wins against Palace, Chelsea and Liverpool was great management by him, looked like he found something that could have been built on. Players were all fighting for the cause, football was quick and efficient, momentum was on our side, players were coming into form and playing well etc. Yet Fellaini comes back from injury and he instantly displaces Mctominany, who has been very good for us of late, opting for Fellaini instead, meaning we had to play a certain way. He then moved Rashford who was the man of the moment after his Liverpool heroics to the right to accomodate Sanchez, it was baffling. I understand some players are so good they demand to play, but Sanchez hasn't been good enough for us since joining to warrant damaging the team chemistry we have. If he doesn't fit in, give him time to and ease him in.
It was a terrible decision from Jose, the players are also to blame as they were fecking woeful, but he also needs to take a huge part of the blame for the loss. This was a game we could have genuinely had a right go in and given his post match reaction, I'm sure he also in hindsight feels the same.
He's improved us heaps and being the second best team in England, only behind a phenomenal City side isn't embarrassing, it was only a while ago we were 6th. He's spent a lot of money though and genuinely has a good squad now, a few more additions in CM and Defence and it's a squad that is more than capable of winning major trophies, so progress and another trophy would be enough for this season. Next season he has no excuses though, the 3 year cycle would have been completed, with him basically having his own squad, he simply needs to begin delivering. Still the best manager in World football along with Pep imo, whether or not he's the right manager for us going forward though is still up for debate and he's the only one who can establish that.
Those wins against Palace, Chelsea and Liverpool was great management by him, looked like he found something that could have been built on. Players were all fighting for the cause, football was quick and efficient, momentum was on our side, players were coming into form and playing well etc. Yet Fellaini comes back from injury and he instantly displaces Mctominany, who has been very good for us of late, opting for Fellaini instead, meaning we had to play a certain way. He then moved Rashford who was the man of the moment after his Liverpool heroics to the right to accomodate Sanchez, it was baffling. I understand some players are so good they demand to play, but Sanchez hasn't been good enough for us since joining to warrant damaging the team chemistry we have. If he doesn't fit in, give him time to and ease him in.
It was a terrible decision from Jose, the players are also to blame as they were fecking woeful, but he also needs to take a huge part of the blame for the loss. This was a game we could have genuinely had a right go in and given his post match reaction, I'm sure he also in hindsight feels the same.
He's improved us heaps and being the second best team in England, only behind a phenomenal City side isn't embarrassing, it was only a while ago we were 6th. He's spent a lot of money though and genuinely has a good squad now, a few more additions in CM and Defence and it's a squad that is more than capable of winning major trophies, so progress and another trophy would be enough for this season. Next season he has no excuses though, the 3 year cycle would have been completed, with him basically having his own squad, he simply needs to begin delivering. Still the best manager in World football along with Pep imo, whether or not he's the right manager for us going forward though is still up for debate and he's the only one who can establish that.
Jose's had a penchant for bottling CL knockouts ever since he left Real. We have to see if he can break the jinx next season.
Thank goodness we have all but sealed a CL spot. I don't even mind us exiting at the Ro16 if the opponent is Real, Barca or Bayern -- but we need to show some fight and proper tactical acumen even against those teams.
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I think its because the tactics that got him success in previous years in cl knockout stages dont work anymore, its really on the edge, concede 1 away goal and youre fecked. If they got rid of the stupid away goals rule (i would really like that to happen) then his tactics would be excellent in knockout stages, but the whole risk of a single away goal basically eliminating you with these tactics makes parking the bus away no longer a very viable tactic, you have to go for it and score an away goal.
I don't think we lost this tie in the second leg, we lost it by not going for it and scoring in the first leg.
That's the point of the away goal, to prevent boring cagey affairs and bus parking tactics. I personally like the away goal rule, love the feeling of playing away and having that adventurous feeling going after the away goal, knowing just how important it is.
That's why I was so pissed after the first leg when it looked like 0-0 was actually Mourinho's plan.
In some cases yes, there was a clear instruction to look for Fellaini back post when we got the ball in the wings. But I am talking about panic hoofs. A lot of times our defenders had the ball, took too much time, the passing lines to the midfielders were cut or matic/fellaini were marked and would pass it back. The defenders were then pressed and would then just lump it forward in panic.
The reason for that was a lack of intensity and Mata. When we play so lethargically, our players take 4-5 touches instead of 1-2 touches that gives enough time for the opposition to organize themselves and then we don’t do enough to move the midfielders and defenders from their positions. With Mata on the pitch, we atleast have one intelligent player on the pitch who makes himself available for a pass and is constantly on the move to create passing options. That makes our play a lot more fluid and there is a lot less of panic hoofing.
I think Jose got it wrong by playing Fellaini and leaving out Mata as Fellaini and Matic are both very static and the problem got compounded as there was no one like Mata who was helping out the midfield and defence to collect the ball deep. In absence of Mata, I was expectihg Jesse and Alexis to play that role but they didn’t do that at all.
Honestly , his type of defensive bit a cowardice football can only be justified if he was winning. The problem is he doesn't look like he is going to win anything lately, playing defensive and still losing makes us no different than relegation side.
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