Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[Pexbo]

I've just learnt a harrowing fact.

Valencia, Bailly, Lindelof and Shaw haven’t played a single minute together all season. I know people might not like to hear it but Bailly-Lindolof is our best pair. Both are comfortable on the ball. I don't think we have seen them play together enough. Shaw should be starting over Young. The way Mourinho has treated him is just not right.

Bailly-Lindelof. Can anyone tell me if they have started games together and if so how many. I think they could have build a good partnership together. Lindolof was ostracized at the start of the season.

I give up.

 

[Santoryo]

We're going to finish 2nd only to an unbelievable PL team whilst getting 80+ points this season and it's still not shut them up.

We've done it without a left back, right back or any reliable pairings in CB. Remarkable, really when you look around at other rivals.

No disrespect but some of you lots sound pathetic. We're going to finish 16 points off the top of the league while Liverpool and Spurs are breathing down our necks despite spending an unbelievable amount.

Such a loser's mentality to be all accepting being behind in second but one quick look at the table we are 16 POINTS off the leaders. It's freaking sad to hear people even being content with such garbage.

 

[Bobski]

I give up.

Yeah, claims they are the best pair and then in the same post asks if they have ever started together. Maybe if we wish hard enough they might actually be the best pair, who needs evidence or performances.

 

[Jig1234]

Yeah, claims they are the best pair and then in the same post asks if they have ever started together. Maybe if we wish hard enough they might actually be the best pair, who needs evidence or performances.

What I meant was they are our best pair of CB's who are comfortable on the ball. If you believe Smalling, Jones, Rojo are better all better at that aspect, fair enough.

 

[Theonas]

We clearly improved in a lot of areas compared to last year. The main two are our solidity and ability to protect a lead through getting behind the ball and the increased individual quality in terms of finding a way to score goals and go up front which usually takes care of about 80% of the games during a season. The last game might mask that but generally speaking we have been very efficient at getting our noses up front and staying there through a mixture of talented forwards and solid defensive organisation.

Those two criteria have generally been good enough to win you the league in recent years and they would have been this year as well if it wasn't for City. So I guess Mourinho did what he was brought in to do, he built the way he can and the way he was expected to. It was never going to be as efficient as his teams from 10 years ago because the profile of players available, not only for us but all over Europe has changed. The problem is his methods were always going to come second if someone like City and the way they play perform to their full potential. Next year will depend on that, we can improve still through higher individual quality up front but that is extremely difficult as those are the most expensive players, not to mention rarest. But if a team that plays the way City do play to 90%+ of their potential, there is just no chance catching them with a team that is built on being efficient and solid. Unless of course you have Ronaldo.

 

[Marcus]

I am fully behind Jose. His style of play requires discipline and pulling together. His teams play in a way which gives them the highest chance of success. You either do it his way or you are not. This is a team sport where coordination is critical. Just because you were lucky enough to break with the system and score a goal does not mean your way is better. And if the players are ''punishing' Jose by executing his instructions in a half hearted manner to show him that his way does not work, they can just leave the club. There are many others who would want the opportunity to play for United at the expense of their preferred style of play which may let them show off their skills but be detrimental to the team .

 

[amolbhatia50k]

It's not clutching at straws. It was 100% a penalty. It's a pity when more people on here seemed to wish City had a penalty against us than recognising that we were blatantly denied one the other.

It's not really relevant in the context of my post.

It's more of a pity when posters use their words to make no actual sense.

 

[Jonno]

City have delph at left back.

They also have world class GK, CB's, RB's and one of the PL's best ever midfields to accompany Delph. Delph is also in his mid-twenties and fit as a fiddle. We have an ageing Young and an ageing Valencia, surrounded by a forever shuffled group of CB's.

Crazy to compare the two scenarios.

Liverpool had until recently matip and lovren at CB, Arnold from the academy at right back and Moreno at left back.

They have a world class, record signing CB who has sured them up. You're underrating their defenders for no reason.

They humiliated City significantly while having a midfield of Henderson, Milner and Ox. None of those three would get into our team. What is so remarkable about what Mourinho has done? Bought a CB and never played him.

They beat City 2-1 and 3-0. We also recently beat Liverpool 2-1, Salah didn't even get a look-in, we also beat Cityl 3-2.

I didn't say Mourinho had done anything 'remarkable'. I'm arguing that he has done a very good job at steering an average squad of players + some very good upgrades to 2nd in the league. Look at Spurs struggling to hold on to 4th, Conte, the Champion, struggling to get into the top 4. Liverpool, with probably the most in form player in world football right now, still can't overtake us.

Imagine when Mourinho upgrades the remaining 8-12 squad players who are dead wood, and has a complete team of his own, he'll probably win the league, like he's done EVERYWHERE he's gone.

 

[Jonno]

No disrespect but some of you lots sound pathetic. We're going to finish 16 points off the top of the league while Liverpool and Spurs are breathing down our necks despite spending an unbelievable amount.

Such a loser's mentality to be all accepting being behind in second but one quick look at the table we are 16 POINTS off the leaders. It's freaking sad to hear people even being content with such garbage.

Lol.... I sound pathetic? You just said Spurs were 'breathing down our necks', they can barely hang on to 4th!

You're forgetting where we were when Mourinho took over. The squad was terrible. The worst in my lifetime. You expect a magic wand to just make us serial winners again. You call it 'loser mentality', I'm looking at the upward trajectory and progress. You're moaning about 2nd place behind an unstoppable City team.

The first 2nd place since Fergie retired. Let me guess, did you want Fergie to retire when we had a few years in the mid-00's without winning a PL? Accuse the realists of having a loser's mentality?

 

[Klopper76]

Just reading through this thread and I’m genuinely shocked that there are United fans who want Mourinho sacked.

You’re second in a league where the team at the top is having a freakishly strong season and you have a chance of winning your third trophy in two seasons.

I don’t understand what the people wanting Mourinho to go are hoping for. Is it just about playing attractive football like City/Liverpool do?

 

[SecondFig]

I don’t understand what the people wanting Mourinho to go are hoping for. Is it just about playing attractive football like City/Liverpool do?

I don't want him sacked, but I also wouldn't be even slightly upset if he does leave. And yes, it's because I want us to play attacking football. The last five years have been miserable, not because of our success - we've won an FA Cup, a League Cup and the Europa League which while not amazing is not bad - it's because I so rarely actually enjoy watching us play. Out of the top four our style of play is far and away the worst - miles behind City, Liverpool and Spurs. I just want to be able to look forward to games again, to enjoy watching a match rather than simply being satisfied with a result after 90 minutes of shite.

 

[Listar]

I don't want him sacked, but I also wouldn't be even slightly upset if he does leave. And yes, it's because I want us to play attacking football. The last five years have been miserable, not because of our success - we've won an FA Cup, a League Cup and the Europa League which while not amazing is not bad - it's because I so rarely actually enjoy watching us play. Out of the top four our style of play is far and away the worst - miles behind City, Liverpool and Spurs. I just want to be able to look forward to games again, to enjoy watching a match rather than simply being satisfied with a result after 90 minutes of shite.

Are you happy with Poch style the last two spur matches?

 

[Listar]

Just reading through this thread and I’m genuinely shocked that there are United fans who want Mourinho sacked.

You’re second in a league where the team at the top is having a freakishly strong season and you have a chance of winning your third trophy in two seasons.

I don’t understand what the people wanting Mourinho to go are hoping for. Is it just about playing attractive football like City/Liverpool do?

Right now, at this moment, for Manchester United, in terms of suitability my ranking would be Klopp, Mourinho, Poch then Pep.

Klopp has amazed me the most, with his adaptability to EPL (and also that drab draw against United where he was also pragmatic to the eyes of people that know football) and proving everyone wrong in regards of his defensive acumen.

Poch on the other hand has not done much with a seemingly better team and his only fall back that people keep harping on is playstyle. Playstyle means nothing without accompanying results.

Pep, while I have to begrudgingly admit, is the best coach given the right resources, may find it hard to succeed in United where there is a limited amount of funds. If he can't get the personnel he wants, I can't see him being able to be as pragmatic/adaptable like Klopp or Jose, where Pep is more of an idealist. After Van Gaal I will rather not go through another season of zombie passing football with no end product.

 

[Esquire]

No disrespect but some of you lots sound pathetic. We're going to finish 16 points off the top of the league while Liverpool and Spurs are breathing down our necks despite spending an unbelievable amount.

Such a loser's mentality to be all accepting being behind in second but one quick look at the table we are 16 POINTS off the leaders. It's freaking sad to hear people even being content with such garbage.

Hear hear. Seems a lot of people buying into the shifting Jose narrative for continuing to downgrade expectations. I think he said the beginning of this season we should seriously challenge for the title. I get the fact that we need to manage our expectation somewhat given we have been mismanaged by Moyes and LVG. That said, to constantly trot out we are second (may not even finish second at all) and improved (from 6th!) doesn’t really mean a lot in terms of absolute progress and where we want to get to next year. Jose deserves credit but not to the degree advocated by so many of his supporters here.

That said, he needs to be given full backing as Utd manager. This should not change and he should have the power to kick players to the curb just like SAF did. Even if they are Pogba or Martial.

 

[SecondFig]

Right now, at this moment, for Manchester United, in terms of suitability my ranking would be Klopp, Mourinho, Poch then Pep.

Klopp has amazed me the most, with his adaptability to EPL (and also that drab draw against United where he was also pragmatic to the eyes of people that know football) and proving everyone wrong in regards of his defensive acumen.

Poch on the other hand has not done much with a seemingly better team and his only fall back that people keep harping on is playstyle. Playstyle means nothing without accompanying results.

Pep, while I have to begrudgingly admit, is the best coach given the right resources, may find it hard to succeed in United where there is a limited amount of funds. If he can't get the personnel he wants, I can't see him being able to be as pragmatic/adaptable like Klopp or Jose, where Pep is more of an idealist. After Van Gaal I will rather not go through another season of zombie passing football with no end product.

Ahh come on, if City had Mourinho and we had Pep, we'd probably have won the league this year. If we had Klopp or Poch I'm not sure we'd be better off points wise, but I'd have enjoyed the last eight months a hell of a lot more.

And I'm not a fan of Pep - but to suggest he wouldn't succeed at Utd because we don't spend enough is just laughable.

 

[DonFerguson]

Strangely our standards have massively improved this season.....if they improve again by the same margin next year.....we might actually have a chance

Judging by the fact that Mourinho claimed that going out in the last 16 to Sevilla is "no big deal", and that plenty of players in that 7th placed Sevilla team "would get into the United team"?

Ofcourse not. 16 points behind Guardiola is a disaster. These aren't the expectations of United. We have higher standards and - unfortunately - the standards seem to have dropped, taking into account the rubbish coming out of the manager's mouth everytime we underperform.

 

[D. Grayson]

You do realise its still better than last year? That’s my point?

It's not better it's equivalent at the very least, we have swapped cup success for league form and position. All the while playing a very similarly inconsistent brand of football. Unless those cups are less important this season because it dose not fit into the narrative of the infallible Jose Mourinho.

Do you want the quadruple this season? City couldn't achieve that.


Do you want 'good attacking football'? Spurs are barely hanging on to 4th.

You need to accept how bad the squad was when he took over, and realise how much he's had to rebuild in the past 2 years, and it's not over yet. There's still probably 10-12 squad players at United that are simply nowhere near the level required to win a PL, and that's not Mourinho's fault, he's upgrading the squad every window.

Have some patience for the rebuild

My initial post had nothing to do with the current state of the club, but rather the glaringly clear fact that Jose Mourinho has a partiality towards certain players, while pushing a portrayal that these players have greatly improved us from last season which is just not true. while team has improved from the Moyes day, we have not done that much better than last season (which was a good season).

 

[OldSchoolManc]

Ahh come on, if City had Mourinho and we had Pep, we'd probably have won the league this year. If we had Klopp or Poch I'm not sure we'd be better off points wise, but I'd have enjoyed the last eight months a hell of a lot more.

And I'm not a fan of Pep - but to suggest he wouldn't succeed at Utd because we don't spend enough is just laughable.

Peps 1st season at City? Won nothing and scraped into CL. With a squad that was asssembled for him before he arrived and THEN had additions.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

People criticise our lesser light players, but we have always had that type of player, all squads have them. The problem as I see it is that the so-called top end players in our team are nowhere near the quality of years gone by. People call some world class, well the ceiling for world class must have seriously dropped. The only player who could hold his head high with our former teams is DDG. We have paid stupid amounts of money for players who are nowhere near world class. Lukaku is not world class, Pogba behaves like he is, but he isn't. Martial is all potential and there have been plenty of those about over the years who come to nothing.

 

[Siorac]

Just reading through this thread and I’m genuinely shocked that there are United fans who want Mourinho sacked.

You’re second in a league where the team at the top is having a freakishly strong season and you have a chance of winning your third trophy in two seasons.

I don’t understand what the people wanting Mourinho to go are hoping for. Is it just about playing attractive football like City/Liverpool do?

We are being told that it's impossible to compete with City and even if we strengthen next summer they will, too, so we are unlikely to catch up (see Mourinho's post-match comments after the Sevilla disaster).

In that case, however, I see no reason to put up with Mourinho. The football is terrible to watch, our performances are generally poor (and the stats bear the out) and he clearly cannot get the best out of our attackers.

I can respect the argument that we are in need of a long-term rebuild but then Mourinho is a major risk. He's an absolute rookie when it comes to long-term planning; he was always about the here and now. His forte is instant success. He has a habit of falling out with pretty much everyone, picking needless fights, throwing his players under the bus in the media.

So, to sum it up: he hasn't delivered major success and is unlikely to do so by his own admission; the football is terrible; players aren't improving; he's never done a long-term, major rebuild during his career - and he is unlikely to be here more than another couple of seasons at most anyway.

I am just hoping he won't get rid of some of our most talented players because they don't fit his very uninspiring vision of how football should be played.

 

[pocco]

Just read an article before about the club backing Jose in a squad overhaul. In the article it said that "the club see successful football as entertaining football".

Can't see a change in style coming any time soon if true, and Jose obviously won't be judged on this. With that in mind the club must be pretty happy with this season.

 

[fellaini's barber]

City have delph at left back. Liverpool had until recently matip and lovren at CB, Arnold from the academy at right back and Moreno at left back. The narrative now is that we have a worse team than Liverpool. They humiliated City significantly while having a midfield of Henderson, Milner and Ox. None of those three would get into our team. What is so remarkable about what Mourinho has done? Bought a CB and never played him.

Forget it, if Liverpool finish above us all those players you mentioned will suddenly be much better than ours, seen it before with these Mourinho defenders

 

[fellaini's barber]

Peps 1st season at City? Won nothing and scraped into CL. With a squad that was asssembled for him before he arrived and THEN had additions.

Is this any different from Jose at United?

 

[Micky Targaryen]

Somehow I can see Mourinho being a good fit for PSG. Will inherit a team of superstars and Jose's pragmatism will come in handy esp in UCL knockout stages.

 

[Alex99]

Is this any different from Jose at United?

Err, yeah. City's finishes in the three seasons prior to Pep were 1st, 2nd, 4th, with the 4th being very much the anomaly. United's finishes in the three seasons prior to Jose were 7th, 4th, 5th.

City finishing 3rd last season was below average, United finishing 6th was disappointingly par for the course. City winning the league this season is pretty much par for the course, and United finishing 2nd would be above the average we've had over the last few years.

 

[fellaini's barber]

Right now, at this moment, for Manchester United, in terms of suitability my ranking would be Klopp, Mourinho, Poch then Pep.

Klopp has amazed me the most, with his adaptability to EPL (and also that drab draw against United where he was also pragmatic to the eyes of people that know football) and proving everyone wrong in regards of his defensive acumen.

Poch on the other hand has not done much with a seemingly better team and his only fall back that people keep harping on is playstyle. Playstyle means nothing without accompanying results.

Pep, while I have to begrudgingly admit, is the best coach given the right resources, may find it hard to succeed in United where there is a limited amount of funds. If he can't get the personnel he wants, I can't see him being able to be as pragmatic/adaptable like Klopp or Jose, where Pep is more of an idealist. After Van Gaal I will rather not go through another season of zombie passing football with no end product.

You people do realise that with the money we spent on Pogba, Lukaku,Matic, Lindelof, Mkhi and the fact that Pep wouldn't have needed to buy 2 goalkeepers means he could have gotten almost same players he bought at City here. Not to mention he most likely would have sold the likes of Young, Fellaini and Valencia, Lingard, Jose favorites and made way for other players who fit his system. This narrative that Jose has been handicapped by us since he came here makes no sense

 

[Listar]

You people do realise that with the money we spent on Pogba, Lukaku,Matic, Lindelof, Mkhi and the fact that Pep wouldn't have needed to buy 2 goalkeepers means he could have gotten almost same players he bought at City here. Not to mention he most likely would have sold the likes of Young, Fellaini and Valencia, Lingard, Jose favorites and made way for other players who fit his system. This narrative that Jose has been handicapped by us since he came here makes no sense

Wow Pep wouldn't need to buy 2 goalkeepers but he actually didn't need to buy striker (Aguero) midfielders (Fernandinho De bruyne) attacking mids (Silva Sterling) but he did it anyway. Your narrative makes no sense.

EDIT: And regarding your second point, that's my point. The reason why we didn't upgrade our fullbacks is because we had to upgrade our midfield and our striker positions. Pep didn't need to, but did it anyway, and have enough funds leftover to splash 50 mil on full back positions. Can you honestly tell me we have funds to do what city did?

 

[fellaini's barber]

Err, yeah. City's finishes in the three seasons prior to Pep were 1st, 2nd, 4th, with the 4th being very much the anomaly. United's finishes in the three seasons prior to Jose were 7th, 4th, 5th.

City finishing 3rd last season was below average, United finishing 6th was disappointingly par for the course. City winning the league this season is pretty much par for the course, and United finishing 2nd would be above the average we've had over the last few years.

We finished where we finished because he hired Moyes and LVG,if City had those two managing them they'd finish 7th and 4th too. Chelsea also won the league after finishing at the bottom half. So based on these calculations of yours when do we hope to win the league? We need to give Jose a few seasons to finish 2nd and 3rd before getting 1st?

 

[VP89]

You people do realise that with the money we spent on Pogba, Lukaku,Matic, Lindelof, Mkhi and the fact that Pep wouldn't have needed to buy 2 goalkeepers means he could have gotten almost same players he bought at City here. Not to mention he most likely would have sold the likes of Young, Fellaini and Valencia, Lingard, Jose favorites and made way for other players who fit his system. This narrative that Jose has been handicapped by us since he came here makes no sense

Like hell it doesn't. And he hasn't kept favourites because he wants to. He's limited on the amount of wholesale changes he can make each season. He's already changed most the entire spine since he's joined (Matic, Lukaku, Pogba, Sanchez, Bailey). Really pisses me off when people just assume Pep can do here what he did at City if the roles were reversed.

City and United work on different models. Our budget is extensive but not so much as to allow a manager to rip up the entire squad within 2 seasons and build a whole now one whilst embedding the philosophy we want to see at the same time. Pep can do it at City because they have a blank cheque. Mourinho can't do it here. The Perisic reports from last summer is a good illustration of that - one too many targets for Woodward to make good on.

 

[OldSchoolManc]

Jose inherited a bad mish-mash of players from 3 different managers. To sell players, you need buyers who are also going to pay a going rate.
Pep turned round to his club and said get rid of x and y player, for whatever price or nothing.
The 2 are completely unrelated situations.

Edit: Missed the quote from @fellaini's barber !

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Are you happy with Poch style the last two spur matches?

Did you watch those games?

 

[Canagel]

Just reading through this thread and I’m genuinely shocked that there are United fans who want Mourinho sacked.

You’re second in a league where the team at the top is having a freakishly strong season and you have a chance of winning your third trophy in two seasons.

I don’t understand what the people wanting Mourinho to go are hoping for. Is it just about playing attractive football like City/Liverpool do?

Yes. Fans are fed up with the style of football and feel that with the talent in our squad we should be a lot closer to City. I've always maintained that I don't believe the gap in points isn't due to the difference in quality. Some of it is. But not to the extent of a 16 point gap. I don't want Mourinho gone yet but if we are still playing this dull tumescent football next season after another summer of big spending I'll lose my patience with him.

 

[Listar]

Did you watch those games?

We played attacking football against West brom and lost, even with a clear cut penalty denied and multiple saves from the keeper. Mourinho gets slaughtered and rightly so. But don't tell me you will be happy if we did exactly what spurs did and come out with a draw against Brighton? And they were abysmal against city. Unless you rather us lose 3-1 than win 3-2? Don't tell me you will not be calling for Poch head if he manages United and are currently lying at fourth despite playing some "fantastic" football.

 

[Listar]

We finished where we finished because he hired Moyes and LVG,if City had those two managing them they'd finish 7th and 4th too. Chelsea also won the league after finishing at the bottom half. So based on these calculations of yours when do we hope to win the league? We need to give Jose a few seasons to finish 2nd and 3rd before getting 1st?

If city keep outspending us, why are we expected to win the league? Because we are United? Who spent the most should win the league. Who spent the second most, should come second. If we spend less than city, but finishes ahead of them, that is not par, that is overachieved, i.e. you need to find a manager that is better than Pep. Common sense right?

 

[Listar]

Forget it, if Liverpool finish above us all those players you mentioned will suddenly be much better than ours, seen it before with these Mourinho defenders

Nope you are wrong. These players are not better than United players and if they finish ahead of us it is because Klopp is better than Mourinho. And I am a Mourinho defender. The same cannot be said about city. You need to have more common sense.

 

[MooseTheMooche]

We played attacking football against West brom and lost, even with a clear cut penalty denied and multiple saves from the keeper. Mourinho gets slaughtered and rightly so. But don't tell me you will be happy if we did exactly what spurs did and come out with a draw against Brighton? And they were abysmal against city. Unless you rather us lose 3-1 than win 3-2? Don't tell me you will not be calling for Poch head if he manages United and are currently lying at fourth despite playing some "fantastic" football.

I hope that you are joking. If this is what attacking football looks like then I am scared to think of the defensive approach (in our case). We were slow, and careless in both passing and possesion. WBA that looked like shite throughout the season was extremely comfortable with our "attacking football"

 

[Listar]

I hope that you are joking. If this is what attacking football looks like then I am scared to think of the defensive approach (in our case). We were slow, and careless in both passing and possesion. WBA that looked like shite throughout the season was extremely comfortable with our "attacking football"

Yes, our attacking football was shite. But that does not mean we didn't attack? If you are an ugly man, can I say you are not a man because of that?

EDIT: I am not excusing Mourinho for the defeat, but I do have problem with the same people criticising Mou but excusing Poch when he doesn't win. Do you comprehend?

 

[Trigg]

I hope that you are joking. If this is what attacking football looks like then I am scared to think of the defensive approach (in our case). We were slow, and careless in both passing and possesion. WBA that looked like shite throughout the season was extremely comfortable with our "attacking football"

That doesn't mean it wasn't attacking. They were set up to be on the front foot, even more so after half time when Lingard came on.

What actually happened though was we were disjointed and unbalanced, which some people, myself included have been saying for a while. By the end of it we had 3 strikers, and 3 attacking midfielders or something stupid and it just got worse from there.

 

[MooseTheMooche]

Yes, our attacking football was shite. But that does not mean we didn't attack? If you are an ugly man, can I say you are not a man because of that?

EDIT: I am not excusing Mourinho for the defeat, but I do have problem with the same people criticising Mou but excusing Poch when he doesn't win. Do you comprehend?

Sorry mate, but you are contradicting yourself with this post. There is a difference between "attacking football" and our "intent" on attack.

 

[podurban2]

Yes, our attacking football was shite. But that does not mean we didn't attack? If you are an ugly man, can I say you are not a man because of that?

EDIT: I am not excusing Mourinho for the defeat, but I do have problem with the same people criticising Mou but excusing Poch when he doesn't win. Do you comprehend?

If Poch spent what Mourinho has spent on players he wouldn’t be excused. Jose has got all he wanted, but has failed in most of his signings.