It was awful to watch and a great reminder that he's not our manager anymore.
Jose "We did to them what they don't like"
- Thread starter Nou_Camp99
- Start date
We have to take our chances of course but it doesn't help that we always have like 25-30 mins to do so because our starting lineups are always extremely naive against teams that sit deep. James and McTominay should never ever start a game against these kind of teams but they pretty much always do. Then we get better after we make subs but don't have enough time to win. Ole is extremely naive and simply unable to adapt to circumstances which cost us points.
Very obviously true, especially with that starting lineup. But if you start Pogba and Greenwood, we win that game, because they're intillgent creative players, who would have picked that particular lock. It was the wrong tactical approach and played right into Jose's hands.
While it's true that we do much better when given space, with Fernandes and Pogba reaching full fitness this won't be such an issue anymore.
Greenwood or Mata also instead of James would be a help in this regard. James just doesn't offer enough on the right wing and for somebody quick he doesn't test the fullback enough.
Greenwood or Mata also instead of James would be a help in this regard. James just doesn't offer enough on the right wing and for somebody quick he doesn't test the fullback enough.
Really goes with all the criticism he got when he was managing us. Even at home, he caters his game plan to not lose in big games. I guess at Spurs it gets less negative attention than it did at United, but he's always been this way, and very open about it. If he gets a result, its a master stroke, and when he doesn't, it just a dull 90 mns where his team were barely in the game.
Whats weirder is that after the game he was saying that it was a game that they had to win, but it really didn't appear that way at all.
Whats weirder is that after the game he was saying that it was a game that they had to win, but it really didn't appear that way at all.
He didn't even deserve a point. We had enough chances to win it. Imagine being a Spurs fan having to watch that shit from them yesterday
This is becoming a general/common knowledge.
We're so bad against park the bus teams. Clueless is the word.
Bruno and Ighalo does improve and make us better, but still not enough.
We're so bad against park the bus teams. Clueless is the word.
Bruno and Ighalo does improve and make us better, but still not enough.
If we played like Tottenham yesterday, and Tottenham like us, people would have slaughtered Ole and praised Mourinho.
We were the better team. Only reason Spurs managed a draw, was a goalkeeper in superb form, and a goalkeeper with yet another mistake.
Well done, Ole.
We were the better team. Only reason Spurs managed a draw, was a goalkeeper in superb form, and a goalkeeper with yet another mistake.
Well done, Ole.
In the 2nd half we were clearly better yes. But they had the 2 best chances of the first half, were 1-0 up and it could easily have been 2. I dont see how that could be considered negative.
Negative would have been defending the whole game and trying to steal a goal at the end
We just lacked creativity, which we could all see change a bit when James and Fred were replaced by Greenwood and Pogba. Obviously momentum had swung a bit as well, so it’s not solely because of those 2, but they made a big difference, especially Pogba. And yet Spurs just about hung on for the draw after another gk clanger by DDG and some magnificent keeping by Loris.
Any team starting with McT, Fred, James, and our fullbacks are going to struggle to create - especially against a side sitting deep. There’s just too much creative burden left on the other 3 (Bruno, Martial & Rashford) - especially if 2/3 looked rusty as well.
It’ll improve, especially with Pogba on the field and hopefully over the summer we get to fix our RW and maybe upgrade a FB position.
Any team starting with McT, Fred, James, and our fullbacks are going to struggle to create - especially against a side sitting deep. There’s just too much creative burden left on the other 3 (Bruno, Martial & Rashford) - especially if 2/3 looked rusty as well.
It’ll improve, especially with Pogba on the field and hopefully over the summer we get to fix our RW and maybe upgrade a FB position.
They did defend the whole game and got their goal through a DDG error. Other than that they had just one meaningful chance the whole game. For me that is negative. And let's face it it's nothing new from Jose. This is exactly what he had us do everytime we went to Anfield when he was in charge here.
They tried to attack on the counter, those were the 2 great chances they had in 45 minutes of football where they were 1-0 up. Were we negative in the first half when we had less chances than they had? They still tried to counter its just they werent successful with it and we coped with it better in the 2nd half.
I remember all those Arsenal games where they'd have most of the ball and try to work an opening for a chance, and we'd break on them and score and win the match. We werent negative just playing counter attacking football
Great point in your first line! All teams prefer the opposition to come out and leave space!
With the exception of Pulis and lower league long ball merchants who want you deep so they can punt it in the mixer.
Hyperbole.
But I disagree with @Luke1995 . He definitely had to go at this time, and we had to move on from him.
There's a fundamental difference between counter attacking and negative football. A clear example is our game against City at Etihad this season. In the first half there, our players were in positions where we were primed to break forward as soon as City lost the ball, making us vulnerable to City countering back. In the second half that game our attacking players were more focused on making sure they were leaving no space behind and hence the counter was slow, because our aim was ensuring we didn't allow City to transition quickly as we were focused on preserving our 2 goal lead.
What Spurs did yesterday was akin to our 2nd half at the Etihad. They were more concerned with making sure we couldn't make quick transition from back to front rather than leaving their attacking players in positions where they could be primed to hurt us when we lost the ball. This for me is negative football and it's a far cry from real counter attacking football which we played against City in the 1st half or against Arsenal in the games you mentioned.
Spurs got their goal through a lucky break rather than a well thought out plan. The evidence for the that is they only "counter attacked" us twice the whole game. When you are actually playing counter attacking football, you counter a lot more, especially with players like Son, Lamela and Bergwjin at your disposal.
His time as a top manager has long gone. It was baffling Tottenham went for him having seen the end of his spell here.
He won't even get the highs we had of two trophies, fa cup and league runners up before the inevitable meltdown.
Id be much more worried that Kane looks like an ineffectual carthorse playing for them. And bar one break away run with shoddy keeping they didn't create much at all.
Against a deep lying defence park the bus whatever you want to call it, a 4-4-2 with Bruno and Fernandes in CM is all thats needed. Keep your CD slightly deeper in case of the counter.When you have 1 striker its fairly easy for the CD to mark. With 2 strikers and 2 wide men along with 2 very good/WC midfielders spraying the ball around its much more difficult for the opposition defence to mark. I was hoping Ole would have adapted this at half time. He could have dropped McTom and Fred for Ighalo and Pogba, James for Greenwood at the 55-60 min mark if James was still ineffectual. Its all hindsight, but it is still an issue we have with park the bus tactics and set up for the counter ourselves.
I mean, sure "he got his tactics right", but he could very well have lost this game if our front 3 hadn't looked so laboured and the team as a whole was up to speed. It was much luckier for Spurs than us that this game was played after a 3 month hiatus - as a Utd fan, I'm not overly worried going forward, whereas if I were a Spurs fan, there's nothing last night that would have reassured me.
So yeah, great for him, he got a point.
So yeah, great for him, he got a point.
All defensive sides tend to counter though, thats the only avenue of attack they have.
United also had 2 fantastic chances to score in the first half as well?
This logic doesnt really hold up. Football has numerous examples of sides parking the bus and winning never mind drawing. It doesnt mean they weren't parking the bus only that it worked
Yeah. The tactical game was won by Ole if anything. But Jose did do a decent job of mitigating our areas of superiority.
https://understat.com/match/11936
xG is not the best way to argue small differences in matches. But it is a decent indicator for objectively judging the balance of play when the differences are as stark as above.
Any score between 0-0 and 1-3 could have easily happened with a tiny slice of luck for either side. Spurs were lucky with 1-1.
https://understat.com/match/11936
xG is not the best way to argue small differences in matches. But it is a decent indicator for objectively judging the balance of play when the differences are as stark as above.
Any score between 0-0 and 1-3 could have easily happened with a tiny slice of luck for either side. Spurs were lucky with 1-1.
They were negative because they defended the whole game and tried to nick a goal on the break as per with Mourinho.
They managed to do it through a mistake the first half and rarely troubled us.
Why is it only a negative performance if they waited til the end?
Yeah I think it's one of them we win 7 or 8 out of 10 times.
I'd be very worried as a Spurs fan but he doesn't hang around long so there's the massive meltdown to look forward to.
But this is what he's always like.
Remember the football heritage nonsense. I really don't see what there is to like anymore.
He's never wrong and if he is it's always someone else's fault. Its bloody tiresome.
Did he interact with our players at FT? Curious to see how he and Pog greeted each other.
First point we've played them twice this season, beat them at home and drew away. How has he shown that he knows how to beat us?
Second point he drew at home in a match where his team were second best for all but about 10-15 minutes and he's crowing about a tactical masterclass. This is the kind of negativity that made me glad he was fired.
I think Jose got lucky yesterday that Martial and Rashford were not Sharp /Matchfit yesterday. This is solely due to the extended break and injuries. We would have won there and we looked good , created good chances and result was not too bad. So Jose can suck it!
A dick who understands far more about football than the rest of us.
Spurs were dreadful. They scored a goal from a punt up the field in which three of our players acted like muppets. The only chance of note thereafter was a Son header when we were rattled.
They spent the entire second half in their own penalty area and Harry Kane had morphed into some sort of auxiliary centre half.
Mourinho and Spurs are done for and meltdown isn’t too far away. Spurs were like we were under Mourinho: negative, drab and void of ideas.
We weren’t great last night, but we certainly looked like more of a team.
They spent the entire second half in their own penalty area and Harry Kane had morphed into some sort of auxiliary centre half.
Mourinho and Spurs are done for and meltdown isn’t too far away. Spurs were like we were under Mourinho: negative, drab and void of ideas.
We weren’t great last night, but we certainly looked like more of a team.
We had probably 7-8 decent chances to score and would have won quite comfortably if Rashford wasn't so rusty. This is also despite half our players looking unacceptably unfit and us being utter shite for the entire first half of the game, so not sure I'd be mouthing off if I was Mourinho. Although, he's Mourinho.
Agreed. I felt that after Pogba came on there was only one team who could have won if the game went on longer.
Indeed. They’re in for a tough time. I remember it only too well.
Mourinho is a busted flush and bitter cnut. Spurs are now a complete irrelevance at the top end of the table. We dominated them yesterday and are comfortably the better side, which will be reflected in the gap between us and them at the end of the season.
It’s a real shame for them.
Kane had one shot in the whole game, from a free kick.
Pretty pathetic stuff.
I thought that Rashford's chance that Lloris saved with his feet was a better chance than either of Spurs chances.
On balance now I've "got over" the result.
Jose has managed nearly all the players. Knew how to set up, knew their weaknesses, had a full strength side back for him, at their home ground etc etc.
He still didn't beat us.
We had so many chances to score first, thus putting them on the back foot, which would have ruined Jose's plan straight away and played into our hands with our counter attacking players on the pitch.
They sat so deep, like very very deep. And although its wasn't easy, we did create some chances and on other days, would have got one.
Spurs are a decent outfit too lets not forget, and I am quietly confident that with a fit and firing duo of Pogba and Bruno, we will have more opportunities to unlock these "low block" teams.
Jose has managed nearly all the players. Knew how to set up, knew their weaknesses, had a full strength side back for him, at their home ground etc etc.
He still didn't beat us.
We had so many chances to score first, thus putting them on the back foot, which would have ruined Jose's plan straight away and played into our hands with our counter attacking players on the pitch.
They sat so deep, like very very deep. And although its wasn't easy, we did create some chances and on other days, would have got one.
Spurs are a decent outfit too lets not forget, and I am quietly confident that with a fit and firing duo of Pogba and Bruno, we will have more opportunities to unlock these "low block" teams.
Watching the match, I was wondering if this is how we looked when defending a lead under Jose. Very depressing. Imagine having players like Kane and Son, and deciding to sit back for the full 90 mins.
It is really odd, and quite sad, how people get so worked up about someone they don't know.
Jose says 'We played in a way they don't like' and sheer outrage. How dare one of the best managers of all time say that they played in a way that works perfectly well against us. Outrageous. The audacity!
Even though it has happened before, countless times, how dare you say that United are poor at breaking teams down under Solksjaer. How dare you use tactics that work perfectly well against us.
I think people need to take a few breaths and realise you don't know these people personally. The biggest dickhead could very well be a United player. Stop holding hatred for a person you don't know; it is sad. It also ends up in boring nattering of old ladies.
Jose says 'We played in a way they don't like' and sheer outrage. How dare one of the best managers of all time say that they played in a way that works perfectly well against us. Outrageous. The audacity!
Even though it has happened before, countless times, how dare you say that United are poor at breaking teams down under Solksjaer. How dare you use tactics that work perfectly well against us.
I think people need to take a few breaths and realise you don't know these people personally. The biggest dickhead could very well be a United player. Stop holding hatred for a person you don't know; it is sad. It also ends up in boring nattering of old ladies.
Hmm. I was pleasantly surprised by how fit we looked, given the exceptional situation we've been in the last three months. We sure looked a lot fitter than Tottenham.