Still the best player in the squad. Play a combination of Di Maria, Januzaj, Rooney and Falcao either side or in front of him and we'll be laughing. It just requires a set of bollocks and dropping the right players, namely Van Persie.
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That would be Di Maria quite comfortably.
Di Maria is coming off the back of an exceptional season, and you're only as good as your last game, but I think Mata is the better footballer. If this debate was to be had coming off the back of 12/13, then Mata was by a fair distance the higher rated player.
I'll quickly add, though, that Di Maria is probably a better fit for a team being built from scratch. His dynamism is great.
He just isnt or at least never showed it so far
Shown it where? He has in the Premier League, certainly. There is an argument to indicate that he has, at least, likewise Van Persie prior to last season.
As for United, he's been the best outfield player at the club since February. It doesn't count for much I'm aware, but true nonetheless.
It always comes down to personal opinion if talking about the best player - however looking at our actual squad most of us would agree that di Maria is our best player who was able to shine despite playing beside Messi, Ronaldo or Bale which makes him part of that exclusive group.
Mata is a great player if used in the correct way (and given he has the right players beside him) - however I am afraid he will be the one suffering from the summer transfers.
I would prefer playing him and rotate (only play 2 out of) Rooney/RvP/Falcao.
It does. Right now Di Maria is the man in form, but Mata himself is evidence that these things can change very quickly. One year ago today the argument would have been in Mata's favour. Di Maria's position at Madrid was looking uneasy and Mata had just come off a sensational season at Chelsea. Things changed, Mata was a victim of Mourinho's changes and Ancelotti came across a formation that suited Di Maria down to the ground.
I don't know if he will be the one to suffer. In truth, neither do you. He could fall by the wayside but I think that would be wrong. That would be the third good player between the 23-27 age bracket we'd have cast aside in a matter of months, in favour of stroking the egos of near 30 year olds that have all sorts of question marks surrounding their fitness and form.
Like you say, we should be playing two - or three, I think is possible - of Mata, Rooney, Van Persie and Falcao. For me, Van Persie should be the first fall guy. The oldest, the least dynamic and the most likely to succumb to injury. I'm worried this won't be the case.
Not for United and not for some time at Chelsea. I wouldnt see him as our best player. ADM, RVP, Rooney, DDG are better players for me (Falcao might be as well).
And he was by no means the best outfield player at United since February. Have you watched the last 3 games? He was very poor and couldnt complain if he gets benched
"Some time at Chelsea" meaning the few months before his move when Mourinho decided to drop him in what the whole of England seen as a silly move? Mourinho will be vindicated, he makes big decisions that no other coach in football has the nackers to make, it's what makes him the best. But let's not pretend as if Mata's form was anything to do with that decision. He just wasn't fancied for the kind of team Mourinho wanted to build.
I've covered more Mata-related thoughts above, read them. As for your final point, I didn't realise that 3 games in a make shift team extends to a period of 6 months. Either way, both Rooney and Van Persie have been shite too.
If Mata wasn't our best outfield player during the latter half of the season then who was? He was scoring goals most weeks, making them, and put in some good performances, particularly when linking up with Kagawa.
Mata isn't the best player in the squad, no chance. People like to make statements like, 'he needs runners', or 'the players aren't on his wavelength', or 'look how good he was at Chelsea' but it doesn't matter. The fact is, the player who benefits who really does benefit most from the 3-5-2 is Juan Mata. Yet he shows no sign of making good of this fact, he has been absolutely passive and his passing in has been sloppy as hell. He's tactically inflexible and beside from his stats that people push out, has been average since joining.
It's also a question of context - Mata stood out for Chelsea but the Chelsea side of those two seasons was probably the worse of the Abramovich era (and, yes, I know they won the CL, somehow). They failed to mount any kind of title challenge. Likewise, he was playing for a team of relative also rans in Spain. So we still don't know if Mata can be a key component of a team with ambitions to win the title. I'd say, based on both club and international record, Di Maria is the more proven performer at elite level.
I would not call Mata a "victim". Mourinho has just a very straight vision of how to play football in the most effective way and Mata is a player who can be canceled out easier by the opposition than other more dynamic players.
Pirlo is similar in that way although he is playing much deeper and therefore has a bit more time for his passes.
Could Mata btw not become a great midfield maestro similar to Pirlo?
For me he was not a star performer at United and what he did at Chelsea 2 years ago is not relevant for United right now. Once he's our best performer over a longer period, then we can consider him our best player. As things stand, he isnt
That's true. I think Chelsea in general, though, were going through a tumultuous time on a number of levels, much of which came as a result of sacking a perfectly good manager in Ancelotti and Roman's mad pursuit of a Barcelona-lite brand of football. Then there was the Villas-Boas experiment. I think Mata, for good or bad, was secondary to most of that. Individually he was excellent for two seasons and Chelsea still won silverware.
I must stress that I'm not even going to massively disagree with the arguments stating Di Maria is the better player. Infact, I've even agreed that on today's basis he currently is. I just think that football is an ever-changing game and that if we can get more of the Mata we seen at Chelsea then I think that's the best player in the squad. I think he can be an incredible influence towards future success. Like I said, last season this will have made for a very different conversation.
The nagging reality right now is that I wouldn't be surprised if we're having similar conversations in the Di Maria and Falcao threads come the end of the season. "Well player X doesn't do this or that," and the likes. And then that player will be defended just like I'm doing now. And then somebody will pop up and say, "well, look, he was brilliant at Madrid" only to get shot down. It irritates me that obviously good players are not succeeding as they should at this club, and it will get to the point when we must look at the systems in place. Van Gaal has a job on his hands here, and I'm hoping he gets it right. If Mata is shifted out then fair enough, but it must be in the name of balance.
He had the second half of last year in a god awful team & 3 games this year so it's a bit harsh to start slating him. The 3-5-2 gets him in the team but by no means does it suit him as he's played his best football in 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3. He hasn't set the world on fire but none of our players have in the past 18 months.
His link up play with Herrera in pre-season was very encouraging & i'd be very surprised if he doesn't kick on once our team is more settled & he has better players around him. If he doesn't play better in a good team then we can start digging him out.
Definitely agree with this.
He scored lots and assisted lots, but it was poor Chelsea Team:
They didn't have a proper system, they were gung-ho, they were ridiculously open due to him (and others) being given no defensive responsibility. They didn't play a possession game or dominate teams, or show any control.
He shone in a team that played from back to front quickly (conceding lots of goals, and losing too many games in the process), and where he had space to run into.
He also didn't really dictate their play, and even if one believes that he did - it was hardly great play.
For a supposed 'no. 10' I've yet to see Mata actually dictate or run anything worthwhile in his years here, and also have doubts that you can build a successful team around Mata, or even make him a key part.
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I don't think so. His scoring rate for us was very good, despite the dinosaur manager.
Certainly don't think he's the best player in the squad. I'd say De Gea and Di Maria are both better than him.
Cant really compare a GK to an outfield player. Comparing with Di Maria yes but not with De Gea.
Yeah I know, tough comparison. I still think De Gea is better in his respective position than Mata is in his but the comparison is tough.
Agree with these sentiments. Purely as a player perspective Mata is better. The Di Maria of a few years ago wasn't even comparable to Mata at that time. So far he really hasn't found his rhythm at United but you can only hide quality for so long. He'll be back at his best soon I believe.
he's not being sold. absolutely no chance.
If United have a season or half a season like the last, Di Maria will also start seeming like a not so effective player to everyone.
We have started doubting talents of players like Rooney and Van Persie, who have played wonderfully and won us trophies. Underestimating Mata after the way our team has been playing is expected. It is stupid but expected.
Mata is class.
Di Maria and Mata both have to start every game for us in the suitable positions. Both are class and both have unique qualities.
We have started doubting talents of players like Rooney and Van Persie, who have played wonderfully and won us trophies. Underestimating Mata after the way our team has been playing is expected. It is stupid but expected.
Mata is class.
Di Maria and Mata both have to start every game for us in the suitable positions. Both are class and both have unique qualities.
If we're playing a X-X-1-2 type formation then there is no logical reason for Mata not being a first choice player and we will be a poorer team for leaving him on the bench.
I think its pretty inevitable that Di Maria will take up that "1" role for himself for 80% of our games. Di Maria as one of the CMs wont work in most matches when he's just accompanied by 1 other CM.
Think RVP Rooney Falcao & DDG all have a case to argue for this also! What a start of a great squad/team we are building!
Starts today. Really happy for the guy. A lot of talk about it looking like he'll be out of here soon but I've got the feeling LvG really likes him. Wouldn't be surprised if he starts most games for United this season with one of Rooney/RvP/Falcao dropping down to the subs' bench.
Agreed, pleased to see him in there.
He is playing all the time since the league has started, and I think he played the most on tour from all our players, I think it's quite obvious van Gaal likes him, I can't understand why people think otherwise.
We have Falcao and van Gaal's mate up front, Rooney has the armband which makes him tough to drop. So it's easy to draw a conclusion that Rooney could force Mata out. I agree that van Gaal likes him but I also see how many think Mata could miss out a fair bit.
Agreed. I think we can keep everyone happy providing we have Champions League football back next season. Otherwise it will prove difficult
I understand why he could drop him, but I don't think it's because he doesn't like him. Also, I highly doubt he would bring Falcao if he wasn't thinking of dropping Rooney or van Persie at times.
Man Utd 4:0 Q.P.R.
Had a good half.
Looks the odd man out I'm afraid 
Definitely not playing bad, but his lack of urge makes him the player any manager would want to to substitute for if things aren't going well.
Definitely not playing bad, but his lack of urge makes him the player any manager would want to to substitute for if things aren't going well.These 'odd man out' things should really be put to rest for at least some longer period of time.
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Such an intelligent player, thought he was very good today.
Superb today, picking my man of the match is a tough one.
I don't think he has any worries about his future here.
I don't think he has any worries about his future here.
Team dropped a gear when he went off.
Unbelievable.Looks the odd man out I'm afraid
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