8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 35
- Goals
- 10
- Assists
- 4
- Yellow cards
- 2
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Fellaini should be starting instead of him... its almost too obvious at this point.
Who would have said that 1 calendar year ago
Who would have said that 1 calendar year ago
I also don't get the Herrera hate being shown my LVG... worrying.
To be fair to Mata though, hes been playing well lately, and earlier in the season, he was indeed warming the bench.
It's like playing with 10 players with Mata, he offers nothing defensively and pretty much nout offensively as well.
We got well and truly ripped off imo.
Edit- His output is decent but he should be creating so much more.
We got well and truly ripped off imo.
Edit- His output is decent but he should be creating so much more.
Fellaini looks the far more dangerous threat up top right now for sure. Big, physical presence in the box and always has a goal in him.
One alarming bit is how he rarely seems to take the ball on the half turn anymore. Most good #10s at the peak of their form like Silva, Kagawa of his early Dortmund days do that so frequently and once they create that space, they can deliver those killer passes. I'm not sure if he is being asked to play more like a CM than a #10 in the current formation but the number of safe passes he's been playing is quite strange.
Fellaini should be starting ahead Rooney. Who should not be playing in central midfield every single game.
Now that is something you really wouldn't have heard a year ago!
You'll get far more goals from Mata than you will from Fellaini.
Of all the stats in all of football, the one about how many goals teams do/don't score with/without individual players has to be the most useless.
Good player, just not the one we need. The formation doesn't suit him and he is getting gradually worse and worse. His three horror misses against Southampton really sum up how low he has fallen since his Chelsea days. Let him go back to Spain/Italy perhaps a swap with Roma for Strootman.
You'd expect that, but I haven't seen enough of a goal threat from him at United. At Chelsea he was lethal at times.
That's nonsense. Just over three weeks back he put in two of his best performances since he joined us, against Newcastle and Spurs.
He was manna from heaven about 3 games ago. Now we're back to "sell him"
He's our 3rd highest top scorer. FFS thread.
He's our 3rd highest top scorer. FFS thread.
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Neither Rooney or Mata should be playing in midfield in this formation especially when we have actual midfielders who can play there instead. I like Mata but ever since we signed him we don’t seem to have a clue how to use him and he just cannot cope physically at times and disappears too often when he has to play deeper. If the future formation is 3-5-2 I don’t see how he fits into the starting 11 unless Rooney and/or Di Maria aren’t going to play and I don’t see a place for him in a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 either unless we are sidelining RVP and not signing Falcao.
If he can be sold in the summer and replaced with someone who can offer some more pace and width I think it would be the best move for everyone involved, either that or we play him in his best position week in week out but I don’t see that happening. It all comes back to the same problem we have too many similar players or players who have to be shoe horned in.
If he can be sold in the summer and replaced with someone who can offer some more pace and width I think it would be the best move for everyone involved, either that or we play him in his best position week in week out but I don’t see that happening. It all comes back to the same problem we have too many similar players or players who have to be shoe horned in.
Likewise global warming is caused by a decrease in the number of pirates in the world.
Correlation does not equal causation. It's obvious to anyone that as a team at the moment we're sacrificing goals in order to stop conceding, everyone is being affected by this change, not just Mata. I'm sure if you did the defensive stats you'd also come to the conclusion that Mata is keeping our defence together, which would be equally ridiculous.
I'd say the main stat that is potentially relevant is points per game with Mata starting in the team versus without him: Since he arrived here our average PPG with him is 1.81. Since the start of last season without him it's 1.62. This season without him starting it's 1.4, with him it's 1.82.
He's been our best attacking player over the last 10 games and the sooner we realise the system is choking the majority of our attackers the better.
I've probably been too harsh on the guy but there are so many games in which he is anonymous hence he is bound to get some stick due to his price tag. I think he would shine in a 4-5-1 formation playing just behind the striker with two holding midfielders covering the defence but can't see LVG using this formation.
Mata hasn't been near as good for us as he was at Chelsea.
He has still been one of our best attacking players this season though and deserves to start ahead of both Falcao and RvP based on what they've done this season.
With that in mind you'd think the obvious solution would be to leave both RVP and Falcao on the bench, play Rooney as a striker and bring in another midfielder that way.
I also like how quick people are to dismiss Mata's actual output at a time when we're struggling to score at all....
He has still been one of our best attacking players this season though and deserves to start ahead of both Falcao and RvP based on what they've done this season.
With that in mind you'd think the obvious solution would be to leave both RVP and Falcao on the bench, play Rooney as a striker and bring in another midfielder that way.
I also like how quick people are to dismiss Mata's actual output at a time when we're struggling to score at all....
A guy can dream, right?
Mata has played quite a few games now without much output. For all the talk about how many goals and assists he gets - that stat at the top doesn't look too appealing.
How many games is that then, two? He changed the game when he came on against Yeovil, and was MOTM a week earlier against Spurs.
Glad we're not jumping to knee-jerk conclusions or anything.
it's funny how the mood turns isn't it.
When he was at Chelsea people thought of him as their best player, and couldn't believe we'd ever get him.
Now, he feels like a massive luxury player, that is hard to fit in, bearing in mind we want to play Rooney and 2 strikers!
Chelsea was built to suit him, 1 striker, then Mata, and proper midfield behind him
When he was at Chelsea people thought of him as their best player, and couldn't believe we'd ever get him.
Now, he feels like a massive luxury player, that is hard to fit in, bearing in mind we want to play Rooney and 2 strikers!
Chelsea was built to suit him, 1 striker, then Mata, and proper midfield behind him
Knee-jerk?
He has played 10 games; 2nd December, 8th December, 14th, 20th, 26th, 28th, and then the 1st January, 4th, 11th and 17th, scoring twice with two assists in that time frame. That's constant game time. Out of a possible 900 minutes, he has played 778 minutes, finishing a full 90 minutes for 7 of those games, and having one with 89 minutes, and two with 44 and 45.
Poor Juan, though. Always the scapegoat. Hugs.
i hate this place sometimes.
You might want to recheck your maths.
Mata didn't start against City, Arsenal, Leic, West Ham or Palace. We won 3 of those games, losing two. That's 9 points from 5 games. So the comparison for this season is 1.8 without him starting to 1.82 with him starting. Last season we had 37 points from 22 games (1.68 PPG) before his arrival. We got 21 points from the 14 games he started and 6 points from the 2 games (Norwich and Hull) he didn't start under Giggs. So last season we did slightly better without Mata (1.79 PPG) than when he started (1.5). We have 1.68 PPG with Mata starting since his arrival, the same as our PPG under Moyes prior to his arrival. Games he has been a sub (used and unused) or missed (not sure if he has) we have 15 points in 7 games, though too small a sample to mean much.
Points gained when a player starts a match is vulnerable to changes that occurred when he got substituted. We were losing against West Brom when Mata got substituted (-1). We were losing against Chelsea when Mata got substituted (-1). We were drawing against QPR when Mata got substituted (-2). The other side of the coin is games that changed once he arrived as a late sub. In this case he got the winner against Palace (+2) but we went from drawing against Leicester to losing (-1).
Mata has played under three United managers and several systems. He started 2 games under Giggs and one sub. It is not as though he made a huge impact on our scoring rate or results under Moyes or Giggs. I agree that LVG's systems seem to be doing us more damage than good.
Personally I am far more willing to give the benefit of the doubt to players who don't get much playing time than to those who have started the vast majority of the games over the last 12 months. Mata isn't the only star attacking player I'd happily sell. RVP would be first on my list to go.
By the way, I still think Mata is a good player, just not a title winning standard player. I wouldn't be bothered about him being a squad player. I've been slightly surprised by the number of goals he has scored though anyone who takes free-kicks should score a few.
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Football fans really are idiots.
What's the hate with Mata today all about?
Did we play?
Did we play?
Idiots
And of those games, how many of his teammates racked up mad Fantasy league points with their performances? And how many of our good performances featured Mata in a staring role? And in an underperforming team, struggling for goals, is creating 4 in 7 really a bad record? And if it is, considering it's probably his worst return of the year (and we haven't even reached the anniversary of his debut yet) isn't that pretty respectable for someone in a slump?Knee-jerk?
He has played 10 games; 2nd December, 8th December, 14th, 20th, 26th, 28th, and then the 1st January, 4th, 11th and 17th, scoring twice with two assists in that time frame. That's constant game time. Out of a possible 900 minutes, he has played 778 minutes, finishing a full 90 minutes for 7 of those games, and having one with 89 minutes, and two with 44 and 45.
Poor Juan, though. Always the scapegoat. Hugs.
I remember Cantona performing like plastic cat poo for ages after his famous Liverpool return. He didn't score from open play for 9 games in fact. In probably his greatest ever season too! Imagine what the Caf would've been like if it was around then? You'd have been listing a fair bunch of dates to reach that 4 in 7 disappointment threshold. And Eric played in a free scoring, well balanced side.
Look, I'm not saying he's PFA material or anything. He's clearly not been as good as he was at Chelsea so far, but he's also clearly been a satisfactory signing at the very, very least. In fact he's easily been the most influential of all our new signings, even if you just compare their first 6 months. So why the mentalism? Well, no one gave a shit about Kagawa's ghost-like existence in Fergie's last year. There was a lot more patience and optimism. Probably because we were comfortably successful. Yet after replacing him with a better player, who's scored 8 more goals in less than half the time (and 7 less than in his entire Chelsea career in almost 50 less games) we've got people calling for him to be sold...WHAT!?
So yes, it's knee-jerk. It's Post Fergmatic Stress Disorder. The marquee players we'd be worshiping in a settled team are suddenly failures for not winning tough games single handed (despite the fact Mata's done this at least 3 times this season)... We know Mata isn't the reason for our poor performances, because most of our good performances have prominently featured Mata. And we also know that 10 pages ago he was the answer to our prayers, and that he will be again in 10 pages time, before inevitably being the luxury wrench in our spluttering engine a fortnight later.
That's football. But even in the insta-instant, multi-broadcast, tweety-vine world, we can surely wait more than 2 half seasons, let alone 2 consecutive games before brining the Wolverine claws out?
Aaaanyway. Here's an official club video celebrating the little munchin's first year at the club. If you don't wanna ruffle his hair and rub his belly, you have no soul.
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...ary-celebrating-his-first-year-at-united.aspx
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He was probably the best player in the league over the two seasons before we bought him, when at Chelsea with the team built to suit him. You don't take a player like that, who's that good when the formation suits him, and just feck him in the middle of random lineups, formations, under performing players and managers, and expect him to still be a world beater.
Who knows, maybe, just maybe, if we actually played in a way that suits his style, like that, he'd be one of the best players in the league again, but maybe that's just me being crazy, because van Gaal probably won't do that.
Who knows, maybe, just maybe, if we actually played in a way that suits his style, like that, he'd be one of the best players in the league again, but maybe that's just me being crazy, because van Gaal probably won't do that.
No he hasn't, for near £40million you want more, much more from him. We all know he is a quality player but he can do a lot better, he isn't exactly pulling his weight around and goes missing in a lot of games.
I'd say over the last shitty year since he joined he's been one of our best performers, overall. I don't think that's bad for a player coming into a struggling team and not playing in the position he's best in for large portions of that. So far he's definitely been 'satisfactory', what we want him to be from this point (or at least next season) onwards is a great signing.
You can't judge someone on their price tag based on their first year. Just look at Fellaini right now compared to his first season.
This is how I feel reading this thread as well. Look at how much people were over-reacting when Fellaini was having a bad season. Mata is quality; I hope he stays with us one more season.
Yeah you're right about him not playing in his best position often but do you think he's better than Rooney in the no10 role?, Also can you see a place for him in the starting 11 over the next 12 months, assuming we inject another £100million or so into our squad?
If we buy properly and stop buying players we don't need, then yes, absolutely. If we continue to buy players we don't need and overloading the team with defenders and strikers, probably not.
is he better than Rooney in the 10? Hard to say, they're different players there. I could bet you money that if you put him in the 10 role and Rooney in front of him, and stopped this RvP and Falcao up front with Rooney in midfield nonsense, we'd be better, and so would him and Rooney.
By what measure is he not? Even if we ignore everything about his performances and pretend he's been an invisible jellyfish for 12 months worth of matches (which a lot of posters in here seem to be doing anyway) his goals alone have been a satisfactory return for his services. He's only been here a year, and we didn't pay £40m for two half seasons of struggling transition. I said he's been satisfactory, not brilliant, which he clearly has. If your definition of satisfactory is lower than Mata's first year return, then I can't imagine what your definition of good is, let alone great. Which signings lived up to these first year standards of yours? How many of Fergie's swoops pulled their weight to your satisfaction?
He's certainly more deserving of a place than either Falcao or RvP. Any talent we bring in up front would be more likely to replace them I'd have thought....
Tevez, Carrick, Ruud, RVP, Hernandez and Jones are some recent stand outs, there are more further back which I can't think of right now.
I'd say that Mata has had as good an individual first year here as Tevez did. I think people romanticize the Tevez-Rooney-Ronaldo attack a bit tbh.
Without a doubt. On his day he's a world class attacking midfielder, he just joined United at a time where there has been a feck load of uncertainties about us. Even so, he's probably been one of our best players over the last year, nothing great but not bad either. Yes, he goes invisible at times, but he started improving that these last few months by playing deeper and getting more involved in games. He's shown his class (albeit inconsistently) on plenty of occasions and just needs to appear in a more settled side. All these excuses are made for so many players but then certain other players get thrown under the bus right away.
If we do inject a lot of money in the squad, it'll mostly be in defensive positions and probably one winger with pace. No reason why he shouldn't play, as he is as talented as anyone and a brilliant passer.
Ruud and RVP I'll give you, they were exceptional. Hernandez was unexpectedly good, and Tevez was pretty good at slotting into an already well oiled an established team. But are these people you consider merely satisfactory to good? Cos I'd consider most of them exceptional debutants.
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