At 18 he is already levels above both at the same age right? So far so good.
Jude Bellingham
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What other 18 year old CM is bossing a tip Euro League & Champions League games at the moment? Don’t tell me Gravenbach. Jude outshone him even in defeat against Ajax.
Some of you guys have been too spoilt.
That doesn't really mean anything though. He is promising, but has a long way to go.
Absolutely. A good signing for Man Utd. They probably won't have any competition for his signature, just like Sancho, Maguire, AWB and Shaw.
I can understand your excitement, seeing as you are a Birmingham City fan. He's a really good young player, but nothing is guaranteed. He's nowhere near the talent that Pogba was.
Fair point well made.
In that case I’d get in:
ADOF HITLER:
PROS: Good in Europe
CONS: Shit against English opposition
POL POT:
PROS: would take us back to basics.
CONS: prefers to operate in the farmers league
IDI AMIN:
PROS: always has the players ears
COMS: Never available during AFCON.
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If he becomes United player he will regress into a 30 y.o Juan Mata. We should stop signing players that look like they have a bright future and makes too much sense to sign because the result is usually tbe opposite.
What we need is to find young talented players from an unknown club, who cant even speak english and have no clue about why did we sign him or where England is on the world map. Then tell them to work really hard and run really fast. They will have no qualms about it and suddenly you have a Ballon D'or contender.
What we need is to find young talented players from an unknown club, who cant even speak english and have no clue about why did we sign him or where England is on the world map. Then tell them to work really hard and run really fast. They will have no qualms about it and suddenly you have a Ballon D'or contender.
Overrated
Stop buying young players for huge money. Just sign the players who is ready to step up. Look at Chelsea and Liverpool - that's how they have been a huge success in the market.
We cannot sign Jude for 100m and then wait another 5 years for him to hit the peak. If you spend 100m , I expect the team to get immediately better.
We cannot sign Jude for 100m and then wait another 5 years for him to hit the peak. If you spend 100m , I expect the team to get immediately better.
He's not overhyped like a lot of other English talents. He is overhyped if there's this idea that he's better than Pogba ever was. He's better than Pogba at the same age, but Pogba had the higher potential and didn't really start playing men's football until he was 19 years old. Jude has been a top 3 talent in the world for his age group similar to how Sancho was. He's in the same class as Sancho and Foden, when comparing English youth talents (based only on their youth performances, so prior to any mens football). Playing for Dortmund has only strengthened his case.
However, although he is different, he affects the attacking game like Pogba does. Albeit they do it in different ways (Pogba is the more creative passer for example). He is more of an all arounder, but he's not exactly a DM, nor would he be the metronome passer. Hence my comment.
Getting Bellingham would be good business just like Sancho was good business. We're not at the top of world football for this generation, so getting someone like him along with Sancho would do us a lot of good for preparation to dominate the next 3-10 years.
I think Hannibal could potentially be a good future partner for Jude if Hannibal is lucky enough to make it in mens football. He's a potential metronome type player if United choose to develop him there, rather than as a 10.
Completely agree. I'm done with our fans wanting success, but at the same time, they want players to grow from young players to old in the club. You can't have that with a good amount of experienced players. We need to compete ASAP or we will be so behind in this digital era, that our fanbase will start to get smaller with each year.
Would you sign Tchouameni?
Yes, I would.
Is he not a young player for huge money? Turned 22 just few days ago and is far from his peak.
He is 4 years elder to Jude and in 2 years , he will be one of the best in his position. Can you say that about Jude ? In 2 years he will be only 20.How many 20 year old midfielders are killing it now in world football , now?
I'm all for signing kids when we have a solid first team. Let's focus on today first rather than tomorrow.
The scouting once again is on point. The execution not so much. We fail with Jude as our young potential WC midfielder and let Dortmund pay him quite a bit more than us while we nearly always over reward mediocre squad players for not playing. Ok so we fail with bellingham, no hassle, it happens. We don’t go for anyone else to develop into the team? There are surely a few brilliant players whose value and experience we can build. If it was bellingham or bust why didn’t we just overpay like we always do? Scouting on point. Transfer team lacking. Additional options seemingly out of the question. We are a bit of a weird club. You could say the same thing with Haaland. Can’t get Haaland so wait and get old guys until he’s worth 100 million and wouldn’t come here anyway? I’m not arguing that the players made a better choice to go to Dortmund but if we told them they’d be starters here and paid them as much they would have come. Both would be starters here. We need to go early and decisive, I think indecision is where we keep falling down.
Great point
So a 21 or 22 year old is fine.
I just wanted to know which age becomes okay with you and what we should buy.
I originally thought you meant with Liverpool and Chelsea buying players like Salah, Kovacic or Kante - player a season before their prime, but I didn't know this included 21/22 year old players.
Both Rice and Bellingham will join Man Utd. They are English, expensive and their "ceiling or potential" are high, just like Sancho, Maguire, AWB, Greenwood, Rashford and Shaw. I remember back then people said Shaw will be or was already better than Ashley Cole. Now Bellingham is already better than Pogba will ever be, and better than Scholes/Lampard/Gerrard at 18, probably better than Zidane, Xavi, Iniesta and Modric at the same age too. So no brainer.
For other clubs, it is better to buy Tielemans, or Guimaraes for £33m .
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Out of interest, what's your perception of Arsenal buying players like White, Martinelli, tomiyasu, Odegaard, Gabriel, Tierney (age 22 at time) etc compared to buying Aubameyang, Ozil, Lacazette, David Luiz, Willian, Partey, Cedric, Pablo Mari, Pepe (24 age at time)?
Do you prefer one over the other
I have no idea which players edu and arteta target, and i have no preference either. I was surprised they paid 50m for white and pepe for over 70m. Martinelli, Tomiyasu, Odegaard and Tierny in my understanding fit the club's transfer budget, someone in the ball park 30 to 40m, young and oversea players. Quality player in EPL is very expensive.
To answer your question, in arsenal the senior players failed the team, not the young players. The senior players are supposed to bring their experience to the team but that didn't work out for whatever reason.
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Come on, it's not complicated. It's better to put 80m on players about to hit the peak than kids who still has another 4 -5 years to hit the peak.
But I don't think a 21/22 year old is at their peak either.
Bellingham is a player that moved to Dortmund from Birmingham at the age of 16 - I don't see him as something that regularly happens in the transfer window and is more of a one off.
100 million for an 18 year old is alot, but I don't nearly see 21 or 22 year old as that far away either.
Liverpool Players like Salah, Luis Diaz, Minamino, Thiago, Allison, Fabinho, Shaqiri, Van dijk, Widjnaldum. Were all 24/25>
Chelsea players like Kante, Lukaku, Niguez, Werner, Ziyech, Mendy, Thiago silva, Kovacic, Jorginho, Morata, Drinkwater, Rudiger, Giroud, Luiz Higuain. Were all 24/25>
Like I can see your point in targeting players in their prime or close to their prime like a season before -
But I personally don't see why going for a 18 year old is bad in your eyes but a 21/22 year old is a good transfer. They still have a lot of experience they have to gain to hit their prime which means the likelihood of them coming and controlling their performances to a top high standards at the age of 21 or 22 is low, especially with heavy transfer fees above their forehead.
I even look at Bruno fernandes who is arguably our best player, his was bought at his peak than at a younger age which shows was a time he did struggle. Salah and de Bryune both struggled at a younger age in the PL and arguably became the best players of the PL after returning in their prime.
With the greatest respect, you clearly have not watched Jude Bellingham play. He is ready for the step up. As I have said, he is already one of the most consistent performers in a team that is usually the second best team in Germany, and he already has gained multiple man of the match before matches in Champions League. What more could you ask for from an 18-year-old? Go and listen to his teammates speak about him. Go and look at how he has the respect of the whole Belgium midfield that Dortmund have. They accept him giving them a bollocking. They respect his talent. This is not about a young boy, he is ready for the step up, I would say at the end of next season.
Please do not call him overhyped unless you watch him regularly.
And by the way, he has a brother, who, although does not look as physical as Jude was at 16 years old, in fact he’s actually 15 and has already played for us, He is technically just as good.
Another kid at Birmingham going on the radar is Jordan James. 17 years old and probably played 15 x 90 minute games already.
Chelsea were in for Shaw when we bought him. Jose was pissed off that Chelsea didn’t get him
My son many years ago was approach by a number of teams including Utd. Clearly as Utd we were chuffed to bits but we ended up choosing Burnley, where he captained the team at every age group till he left to play Basketball. The decision I guess we made was beyond just football and there was a lot to consider than football. He was no Jude but the issues were pretty much the same. I think we can put the blame on the club and forget it’s still comes down to the player and importantly his families choice irrespective of the money sometimes. You look at the club, the manager at the time, playing style, players in your position, players you might not even like, living in a new country, learning a new language, how the experience grows up as an individual for young players. It remind me of when we were looking at which uni he went to, it wasn’t just about who had the best basketball programme.
Utd are operating in a completely different business model to 90% of the clubs. We don’t buy players of that profile to sell them on like Dortmund. The can make promises that others can’t as they did with Sancho leaving City, on the basis they play regular and provide a platform to then go onto a bigger club. Big clubs can’t guarantee a 18 year lad from Birmingham city first team football, they can make some assurances but ‘guarantee’ ? Also as fans we have the benefit of hindsight and can question decisions after the fact. If you think there’s issues in dressing room now, tell season pros that an 18 year old from Brum City is signing and taking your position Scott.
Getting two old guys……? There isn’t a club in world that wouldn’t want Ronaldo, maybe some that couldn’t for lots of reasons but that’s what I mean about operating to different business models.
Great point.
All I ever see you do on this forum is make preciously sanctimonious posts about how much we spend. Is everything okay?
Going to be grim when Liverpool sign him
that’s so cool! Is basketball in the U.K. a viable career choice? (assuming you guys are based in the U.K.?) it’s not a sport I know all that much about. Your son must be a baller though!
He’s not English though, clearly that’s his problem, he doesn’t like English players
I am in the Uk and absolutely not a viable career choice!!! Not saying our experience is unique but I could tell lots of stories about being young at top footballers clubs from an early age that many would absolutely be shocked about. The pressure exerted on young footballers is like you wouldn’t believe. Clubs expect you to make massive sacrifices including your future and your family….he wasn’t prepared to take that gamble. Maybe the likes of Dortmund have really good young player care aside from football and why players go there to ‘Mature’ Into being also better adults?that’s so cool! Is basketball in the U.K. a viable career choice? (assuming you guys are based in the U.K.?) it’s not a sport I know all that much about. Your son must be a baller though!
I said to him that money should never be the motivation to making decisions. There are a lot of emotionally damaged players who are paying the price.
That also depends on the management. Klopps Liverpool side hasn’t ever really had ’dictators’ in midfield. I don’t think this Ten Hag Ajax side does either and those are two incredibly efficient teams who also display some of the highest possession stats in europe right now.
I think you're just overlooking certain players...
Henderson averages 64 passes a game, thats 13 more than our most from a midfielder - Fred. Then you have Thiago on top of that with 58.8 and Fabinho with 55.8 all ahead of our players.
Van Dijk, Matip and the fullbacks both make more passes than the midfield. But those numbers above are still high compared to us
Ajax have Alvarez with 66.4 so thats even more than Liverpool. But then their other midfielders are lower like 47 Gravenberch
Kimmich 82, Kroos 84...
Sevilla are 2nd in La Liga and they have Fernando with 51.9 average passes which is around the same as Fred I guess. They have 5th most possession in La Liga and we're 6th in the premier league, so they're probably the team we can actually similar to us but more successful in their league at the moment
Edit - Looking at Pogba specifically in CM/DM he averages 72.4 this season. So when hes actually available and playing its not as much as the top passing midfielders but its still high. Matic 63.5 but has played 8 games so he isnt a first choice for us
A very savvy approach @Litch. Of course it’s a huge gamble even if you’re crazy good. If your son still loves it as he’s going through college he could still play at a semi pro level and who knows where it’ll lead? I really like the idea of getting the education and then throwing the kitchen sink at it for a few years from a less demanding level? 99% of the kids are going to be dropping down to that level and without much education or plan B either. You can only feel sorry for families who put all their hopes and dreams into a kid becoming a superstar and for it not to work out for them. I can imagine the rebuilding process to be a bumpy road
Yes, I haven't watched him play at all. But I would be cautious. I don't see a 18 year old midfielder suddenly taking a club as huge as Man United 's midfield and killing it. Moreover, see how Sancho is doing now. He is atleast one year before he can start producing numbers again. Look how Mkhi and Kagawa turned out.
If he makes it will you go one further and change the name of the club to Bellingham or would it be just another stand in his honour?
Yeah I could see that happening too sadly
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