Do you guys actually believe Wenger achieved more than Klopp over the last 10 years when Klopp spent even lesser than Wenger?Not sure if you're clueless or being thick?
Jurgen Klopp
- Thread starter RedMachine03
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Taking a break
I think that's the best decision for him. Not to mention that the most attractive jobs for him aren't really available atm.
Big pressure on Rodgers/Pellegrini/Benitez all season with him waiting in the wings
Waiting for a top, top job
Bayern when pep goes?
Why? Can you compare the playing styles?
Bayern had him on the final shortlist of two to take over from Van Gaal and he has in the past said what an honour it was to be linked with them
Peps contract is up in a year so if Klopp hangs on for a year then surely he would be the leading candidate to take over - well Beckenbauer seems to think so anyway
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-tips-Jurgen-Klopp-succeed-Pep-Guardiola.html
I'd imagine he's waiting for either the Bayern job, or one of the top 4 in England to become available.
With all of Klopps merits - it would be a step back. Klopps BVB only ever excelled in one style of play - lightning fast counter attacks. Not exactly what is needed at Bayern. Favre, in comparison, seems to have more strings on his bow.
But it's perfectly possible i overrate the tactical aspect of coaching and the main virtue that is needed to win titles with a powerhouse team is motivational skills. Klopp has those in abundance.
Even Liverpool just showing interest in him has made him take a break from the game.
http://m.skysports.com/article/sports//9872196
Had no choice really, the options just aren't there. Maybe something pops during the upcoming season.
Had no choice really, the options just aren't there. Maybe something pops during the upcoming season.
Given what an intense coach he appears to be I would've been suprised if he decided against a break.
Bayern had him on their list in 2008 - with Klinsmann. But they decided for the diver.
They did not have him on the list in 2011 when van Gaal went.
Franz Beckenbauer already told that he mixed the times there...
It is exactly how Strongwalker told it. Klopp's philosophy is a philosophy that for sure does not work for the top dog in the league against which everybody sits back. Believe me - a Müller, Robben, Ribery and Lewandowski would really excel in counter attacking if you would let them... But what Klopp's time at Dortmund showed in the last two years is that he does not really have a recipe for ball possession football.
In addition to that - maybe you can call that means of battle - Klopp for sure did not make a lot friends in Munich and especially with the fans in the way he manipulated the media. Maybe with the media it is a two sided thing - but you do not need to give them so much food...
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Some of the decisions of how he sets his team up are strange sometimes. Why does he have Mkhitaryan in midfield and kagawa in attack in the same game? How come they still didn't sign a defensive mid despite Benders injury record? Why's he signing strikers that play so differently to lewandowski given how big a part he was to the build up? These minor mistakes are red flags on what he can do and most of them aren't really understandable.
He's earned a break to re-charge his batteries ala Guardiola.
Good move. A couple of top jobs will surely become available by the end of next season. No point going to Liverpool and struggling with their limited resources.
The only top job opening for sure would be bayern and he might well end up there. Possibly United job may come avaialble if there are no trophies and no title challenge, but dont think he is big (or even good) enough for a club like United.
But hey real job is going to be avaialble by dec so it migth be a master stroke by klop.
So he's not good enough for United, but he can manage Real Madrid?
That's like saying he's not big enough for Stoke but he can manage Chelsea, no disrespect to United but they're a powerhouse in terms of financial might right now and a footballing brand but the squad is a tier below the big teams currently
pellegrini, ramos, fatty - all coaches who wouldnt get a sniff of the United job in my opinion. but still got the real job.
Its not a matter of how big the club is, its about how dumb the owners/president are.
I wouldn't rush a judgement about the quality of manager appointments at United post Ferguson.
Why shouldn't he?
Sahin? Ginter also played a couple of games there.
Well first of all Dortmund didn't have the money to sign a striker as proven and complete as Lewandowski. Secondly Ramos is/was actually sort of Lewandowski light. It's hard to tell what they were thinking when they signed Immobile, but right now it looks like that experiment was a gigantic fail. Him and Kampl are probably the biggest question marks regarding their transfer policy.
Pellegrini isn't a bad coach at all and had a great time at Villareal when Real signed him. Ramos won the UEFA Cup with Sevilla twice around the time he was signed and apparently he was only a mid season short term solution.
A Madrid fan will probably counter that with Moyes and the van Gaal signing wasn't without its risks either.
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Do you know something we do not know? I did not know that there is a job opening in Munich and even if the british press likes to construct stories about a possible move to City (and City actually is the most unlikeliest destination when you look on the way he choose his last job) it is more likely that he will prolong his stay in Munich.
Instead of taking a break he should just coach a Euro 2016 team. He can win some easy qualifying games and improve or at least not hurt his stock and then sign a deal before the tournament like Van Gaal and others have been.
The Dutch are a mess right now. Serbia too. Those teams have some talent. Norway are doing poorly. Denmark a bit better. Not sure who else would be looking to make a change, but if his agent did the rounds I bet someone would be interested.
The Dutch are a mess right now. Serbia too. Those teams have some talent. Norway are doing poorly. Denmark a bit better. Not sure who else would be looking to make a change, but if his agent did the rounds I bet someone would be interested.
I see a couple of problems with that:
1. Klopp might genuinely be tired.
2. Imo Klopp needs a team that speaks/understands his language.
3. Klopp seems to be a workaholic and his football relies on every play being on exactly the same page (one player misreading the situation and the opposition can just play through the pressing and attack an exposed back line), I'm not sure if that can be achieved with the very limited time a NT coach gets to spend with his team. There also might be a problem with the player material: very few nations aside a NT coach has to work with what he got, no matter if a player has a shitty attitude, terrible tactical understanding or is too old to keep up a good pressing for 90 minutes. I won't go so far as to say that Klopp can't be pragmatic, but it would probably bother him a lot if he had to compromise his basic ideas.
Klopp might believe that national teams should be coached by people from that particular country. A German coaching the German national team for example.
I highly doubt guardiola will be in munich next summer. If he does not win the CL next year he will likely be let go, if he wins it he will likely go out on a high. Obviously there is no basis of this but I think guardiola will be the next United manager and Bayern will hire klopp.
I highly doubt either of them will end up at city and for all the money in the world coaching city is not yet a top job in my opinion.
Munich isn't Real, I don't think they would let go of a coach more or less out of principle because he didn't win them the CL. There is no better fit for Bayern than Guardiola (at least on paper), so I can't see them end it voluntarily, as long as he doesn't make too many enemies within the club. I'm sure they respect Klopp, but his style just doesn't fit theirs and on top of that there seems to be some bad blood between him and Sammer and maybe Rummenigge.
Not saying that bayern will necessarily fire him, they are not a circus like real. But it is a two way thing, if guardiola fails next year as well like this one, he might himself pick up his bag and walk away. The same way he did with Barcelona.
Also, what is bayern's style of play? The style of play under Heynckes was polar opposite of what it is under guardiola, it does not take much for good managers to change the style of a team with quality players. Infact the way bayern played in 2013 was very similar to how Klopp sets up. On top of all this Bayern do need a huge transition (2 wide players, a CM, a fullback and a couple of CBs) over the next two seasons. I can very well see them begining this transition under a new manager.
I really though Real Madrid would be after him, maybe he rejected them I don't know, but his style seems to suit the players they have.
Ramos is a runner rather than a post striker. He needed to get a post striker. Getting someone as good is borderline impossible but he should've gotten someone with a similar style.
Sahin really isn't a dm himself even though he's done well at times this season. He himself has proven to be extremely injury prone. Ginter is nowhere near good enough on the ball for the position. Sending someone out their with kehl is basically playing a 1 man midfield.
Kagawa is a better midfielder than Mkhitaryan and Mkhitaryan is about as good an attacker as him. So a simple swap of position would've helped dortmund a lot. We saw just how influential Kagawa became when he started dropping deeper later in the game while when he was in the hole he was largely un influential. Mkhitaryan is pretty risky with the ball and is prone to losing it on the wrong side of the midfield, while Kagawa is better with the ball cause he's technically that much better. Its like Milan playing Kaka in midfield and seedorf further up in the hole all those years ago, it just doesn't make sense.
The style of play of Heynckes was not polar opposite to that of Guardiola. Look at the ball possession stats at Who Scored then you will see it.
People are mislead by the matches against Barcelona...
So you are saying what is done with posession is immaterial as long as the stats are the same.
If you've seen their games through the two CL final runs Heynckes teams are far more direct. Completely different in most stats to guardiola.
So how many matches have you watched... I have seen all...
A what? Ramos isn't just 'a runner' he's usually involved in attacks, available to his teammates for short passes, he uses his physique to fight off Defenders and he's good in the air. Obviously he didn't work out and Lewandowski is a class above him even in the best of cases, but I think in theory both have a rather similar profile.
Sahin has turned into a Xabi-like DM. His defensive stats are pretty good, he's been played alongside Gündogan when fit and iirc someone like Jojic before that and he missed like one match out of fifty last season. Ginter isn't great on the ball but at least not significantly worse than Bender or Kehl. The latter has (despite all his flaws on the ball) been a solid player and actually had quite a good 13/14 season. It's not like Dortmund could not have used a second player like Sahin, but that's also a question of finances and opportunity, since those are neither cheap nor common.
I don't even know what you're refering to. Almost all season Dortmund have been playing a 4231 with Kagawa as sort of a #10, which imo clearly is his best position, and Mkhitaryan at either side of him. Mkhitaryan has had a pretty terrible run at the beginning of the year but aside from that his current role (playing as something between a third CM and a LM/RM) seems to fit him pretty well.
Looking back I think that their biggest mistake was that they had too many question marks in the squad. In midfield they had Gündogan who just missed more than a year, Mkhitaryan who had shown that he might be unstable, Kagawa who had to overcome his time at United and Kuba (+Subotic) who came back from very long term injuries.
In attack it was Aubameyang who had trouble adjusting in his first season (I don't think anyone foresaw him having as good a season as he ended up having eventually) and Immobile who came from a small team and who has his obvious limitations.
I still think that with a bit of luck it might all have worked out ok, but the injuries exposed the shaky foundation and the whole thing imploded.
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A hold up striker. I've never seen ramos play like that, even before he signed for dortmund. While he might be good with the ball at his feet, his hold up play has never been his strongest point.
Its a problem having sahin there because what the stats don't tell you is that he can easily be bypassed in midfield because he's no defensive specialist. This is something that's clearer in games when dortmund doesn't have their foot on the opposition's throat with their pressing(I.e vs juve). Against a direct midfield threat he's not going to stand much of a chance. In truth, neither Kehl, Bender or in fact Ginter should be seeing much game time. All are rather average on the ball, and while Bender is solid defensively he's never fit to show it. Kehl is slow and old and Ginter looks like a Center back being played out of position. If I was klopp I'd rather have hummels in midfield in all honesty.
Vs Wolfsburg Mkhitaryan played deeper than Kagawa which is what I'm referring too. Kagawa played pretty much in the hole rather than next to Gundogan which distracts the teams ability to move the ball forward. The player that was playing in the same line as Gundogan was mkhitaryan. IMO that's having those players the wrong way around. Guess you'd need to see a heat map to understand what I'm on about.
I've seen the match against Juve and I didn't see any problem with Sahin there. Most of Juve's succesful attacks were down the wing and/or the product of individual defensive errors. His positioning is that of a defensive midfielder and any one player gets overrun when your pressing fails you.
Obviously neither Kehl nor Bender nor Ginter are great on the Ball (at least as midfielders) but that's a question of money and opportunity again.
Mkhitaryan began as a #10 at Dortmund and it hasn't worked out well, he has a tendency to attempt runs with the ball instead of playing one touch football which can hurt the team if he tries it in crowded spaces. In his current role on the side of Kagawa he get's enough space to utilize his pace and actually make those little solos work for the team.
Kagawa on the other hand is playing his classic role, the one which got him to United. In a way he's the opposite of Mkhitaryan, because while he excels in playing quick precise passes he can look rather ineffective when he's given some space in the middle of the pitch and has to do something on his own.
So I honestly don't understand why you think it's a mistake to set them up this way, especially since Kagawa can probably drop as deep as he wants because Mkhitaryn usually occupies an outer midfield position during build up.
I also think this makes much more sense defensively, since Kagawa is great at the top of a 442, where he can be effective without directly attacking the ball whereas Mkhitaryan is defending as a LM/RM where he can again use his pace and more robust tackling to close down opponents.
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dortmund's new manager thomas tuchel in his first interview for the team-owned BVB TOTAL channel: https://******/7h3x (english subs included)
wow. sahin not being a defensive specialist, but then neither of bender, ginter should be granted game time? hummels in midfield? did you look at his weight or see him in sprint duels? i do feel like you did not think this true, mate.
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