Keir Starmer Labour Leader

[Buster15]

With everything that is going on, I decided to listen to today's PMQ. And as a Labour voter, I found it particularly frustrating.
Have to be honest and say that I don't particularly like Starmer as an individual. Yes I do believe he has done a pretty good job in making Labour electable again. But I simply can't take to him as a person. He is never going to be a political heavyweight.
And today, he hardly landed a punch on Sunak despite many opportunities.

He has fallen into the trap of just going for sound bites instead of putting Sunak under sustained pressure.
Very disappointing.

 

[pacifictheme]

With everything that is going on, I decided to listen to today's PMQ. And as a Labour voter, I found it particularly frustrating.
Have to be honest and say that I don't particularly like Starmer as an individual. Yes I do believe he has done a pretty good job in making Labour electable again. But I simply can't take to him as a person. He is never going to be a political heavyweight.
And today, he hardly landed a punch on Sunak despite many opportunities.

He has fallen into the trap of just going for sound bites instead of putting Sunak under sustained pressure.
Very disappointing.

Most media seem to think he destroyed sunak today so maybe your dislike for him is clouding your judgement.

 

[Jippy]

Not sure this research is telling us much we don't know.

Adopting rightwing policies ‘does not help centre-left win votes’
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-policies-does-not-help-centre-left-win-votes

 

[Frosty]

You don’t realise Starmer is playing 4d chess by going to Murdoch garden parties and dropping all his left wing pledges. He is tricking the right into voting for the Labour Party.

Those are objectively bizarre attacks. The sort of attacks that if he had even a barely reasonable relationship with the editor they would not publish. Weirdly enough, Gordon Brown had a good relationship with Paul Dacre of the Daily Mail. The Mail were hostile to the Labour Government, but they never really ran this sort of attack.

 

[Buster15]

Most media seem to think he destroyed sunak today so maybe your dislike for him is clouding your judgement.

Well I have just checked and I am not at all sure you are right. And destroyed is a huge exaggeration.

 

[Maticmaker]

He has fallen into the trap of just going for sound bites instead of putting Sunak under sustained pressure.
Very disappointing.

This is the warm up stage, Starmer puts the pressure on after the Kick-Off for the GE.
Sunak is doing a fantastic job of sinking his own ship. Starmer is absolutely correct to let him get on with it and not to give the Tories any footholds that might allow even a mild re-balancing of their crumbling act.

Thankfully Starmer is not falling into the the trap of ... "when there is nothing left to say, some fool always says it"

 

[pacifictheme]

Well I have just checked and I am not at all sure you are right. And destroyed is a huge exaggeration.

Well I guess that makes two of us then.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

This is the warm up stage, Starmer puts the pressure on after the Kick-Off for the GE.
Sunak is doing a fantastic job of sinking his own ship. Starmer is absolutely correct to let him get on with it and not to give the Tories any footholds that might allow even a mild re-balancing of their crumbling act.

Thankfully Starmer is not falling into the the trap of ... "when there is nothing left to say, some fool always says it"

Starmer keeping true to form, not saying very much, a few sarcastic remarks is his boundary - the quietest opposition leader known to man.

Can't wait to learn his plan how he's going to make Brexit work - eager with anticipation.
(And before anyone says anything - There's nothing on Labour's site or mission statement.)

 

[Dobba]

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[Smores]

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Herzog who was only recently saying there's no innocent civilians in Gaza?

Should be expelled for this but we know there's no chance of that.

 

[Sweet Square]

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[Buster15]

This is the warm up stage, Starmer puts the pressure on after the Kick-Off for the GE.
Sunak is doing a fantastic job of sinking his own ship. Starmer is absolutely correct to let him get on with it and not to give the Tories any footholds that might allow even a mild re-balancing of their crumbling act.

Thankfully Starmer is not falling into the the trap of ... "when there is nothing left to say, some fool always says it"

Very fair point.

 

[Dobba]

Herzog who was only recently saying there's no innocent civilians in Gaza?

Should be expelled for this but we know there's no chance of that.

Their leader thinks Israel has the right to commit war crimes, the only chance of them facing any kind of criticism is for not inviting him to go with them.

 

[Sweet Square]

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[Herman Toothrot]

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Christian Wakeford. A pube-infested chode poking out of a suit and tie. He recently tried to get a Roger Waters concert cancelled because he was too stupid to understand the meaning behind the most famous and least subtle rock opera of all time.


An opportunistic cretin who crawled out of the Tory filth across to the Labour benches to save his worthless hide.

Seeing Starmer smugly welcome Grima Wormtongue into the fold was among the Labour leader's many lows.

 

[The Corinthian]

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From the angle - it almost looks like Keir signing that missile which is quite apt.

 

[Maticmaker]

Starmer keeping true to form, not saying very much, a few sarcastic remarks is his boundary - the quietest opposition leader known to man.

Can't wait to learn his plan how he's going to make Brexit work - eager with anticipation.
(And before anyone says anything - There's nothing on Labour's site or mission statement.)

Yes, that's true, keeping his powder dry, he really doesn't need to say anything at this stage, it is on the run-in to the GE, when he speaks to the nation.

There is no formal plan to make Brexit work, (how could there be when Paul the Wolf keeps telling us it is the 'impossible dream') Starmer will be looking to make connections where there are possibilities, I would expect these will be minor to start with, but with his 'social contract' (my words not his) hopefully riding high in the van of Labour's post GE intentions, then a new range of options present themselves.... at least Labour hopes they will!

 

[Raven]

Yes, that's true, keeping his powder dry, he really doesn't need to say anything at this stage, it is on the run-in to the GE, when he speaks to the nation.

There is no formal plan to make Brexit work, (how could there be when Paul the Wolf keeps telling us it is the 'impossible dream') Starmer will be looking to make connections where there are possibilities, I would expect these will be minor to start with, but with his 'social contract' (my words not his) hopefully riding high in the van of Labour's post GE intentions, then a new range of options present themselves.... at least Labour hopes they will!

If he could just sit around doing nothing, why hasn't he? Why has he expelled left wingers in their thousands? Why has he broken his 10 pledges? Why has he been so vocal in his support for Israel? Why has he sacked ministers for supporting the labour movement?

He's done all of these things because he is ideologically the same as the Tories and you suggesting it's some genius political move is utterly laughable.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Yes, that's true, keeping his powder dry, he really doesn't need to say anything at this stage, it is on the run-in to the GE, when he speaks to the nation.

There is no formal plan to make Brexit work, (how could there be when Paul the Wolf keeps telling us it is the 'impossible dream') Starmer will be looking to make connections where there are possibilities, I would expect these will be minor to start with, but with his 'social contract' (my words not his) hopefully riding high in the van of Labour's post GE intentions, then a new range of options present themselves.... at least Labour hopes they will!

But you're at odds with another fan of Starmer on the caf who believes that all his plans are costed and set out and has not kept his powder dry.
I think there's a high chance that the Tories will call an election for the Spring rather than the autumn as 2024 is the start of phase 2 of Brexit when it gets worse (grace periods ending, new regulations to comply with, inspections, new EES system in the EU, a very long list of changes this year.. Phase 3 starts in 2027 (full Brexit, ouch!) right in the middle of the the next term of the government of the time. My guess is that the Tories know for sure that they're losing the next GE, unless Starmer really c*cks up, and they'll come back in 2029 after all the problems that will occur in the next 5 years that have to be dealt with by the next government. Has Starmer costed these?

Starmer has said that his team needs to pad out the manifesto which is based on his 5 missions. So, with not much more time left, he'll have to start saying how he's going to make the economy work, and how he's going to finance putting the country back together again. The problem with Starmer is that, as I've said before, he doesn't understand what the consequences of Brexit mean , he really doesn't, and should have called this out from Day 1. I know he's scared to say boo to a goose but sometimes you have to.

The only thing he's offering is -he's not the Tories- but they'll be back in 5 years unless he radically makes the country a better place. How? With what money? Inside fiscal rules? Producing goods from what and selling to whom? Trading with which ,as yet undiscovered ,country? And no he won't be able to renegotiate any new deal with the EU .

Will we find out very soon? - How Brexit will work, for no apparent reason, and how the Uk will have the highest sustainable growth in the G7, with no apparent reason how this will come about.

 

[F-Red]

I think there's a high chance that the Tories will call an election for the Spring rather than the autumn as 2024

No chance, everything is pointing towards an election at the end of the year.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

No chance, everything is pointing towards an election at the end of the year.

It was. The Tories seem to be suggesting that and they may try to hold on as long as possible, and hope that Sunak's ratings improve. But there could be a surprise.

 

[Herman Toothrot]

He's ruled out HS2. Not a surprise. He's nothing if not continually disappointing.

 

[Berbaclass]

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[Tibs]

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Is it now against the law now for people to say boycott XYZ because of reasons 123???

 

[Sweet Square]

From the angle - it almost looks like Keir signing that missile which is quite apt.

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[Sweet Square]

Imo this guy would make for a good labour leader right now.

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[Drifter]

Before the real people that run the country got their claws on him

 

[Herman Toothrot]

He just keeps talking because he doesn't want to be asked another question. Make no mistake, Burnham, GMCA, TFGM and the city council are doing everything to not lose the land for HS2. He might meet with the Metro Mayors, but he's not fecking working with them.

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[Maticmaker]

If he could just sit around doing nothing, why hasn't he? Why has he expelled left wingers in their thousands? Why has he broken his 10 pledges? Why has he been so vocal in his support for Israel? Why has he sacked ministers for supporting the labour movement?

He's done all of these things because he is ideologically the same as the Tories and you suggesting it's some genius political move is utterly laughable.

Because he wants Labour to win and win big... If Labour doesn't win big, then as Starmer hasn't raised any real expectations, he will have a fight on his hands, from left and right.

It's not a 'genius political move' (those are your words)... it's common sense for an opposition leader in his current position. True, he's upset some on the left, but who are they going to vote for if not Labour? If they vote for anyone else there is the danger of letting the Tories off the hook by returning Labour with a low/slim majority... enough to govern maybe, but not enough to be in power and to make changes that count.

The only thing he's offering is -he's not the Tories- but they'll be back in 5 years unless he radically makes the country a better place. How? With what money? Inside fiscal rules? Producing goods from what and selling to whom? Trading with which ,as yet undiscovered ,country? And no he won't be able to renegotiate any new deal with the EU .

Will we find out very soon? - How Brexit will work, for no apparent reason, and how the Uk will have the highest sustainable growth in the G7, with no apparent reason how this will come about.

At this point in time, that's all Starmer has to be..!

Keep the faith... that's what's wanted Paul....!!

 

[Raven]

He just keeps talking because he doesn't want to be asked another question. Make no mistake, Burnham, GMCA, TFGM and the city council are doing everything to not lose the land for HS2. He might meet with the Metro Mayors, but he's not fecking working with them.

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He truly is a rat, I'm actually so ashamed of what the labour party has become.

 

[Raven]

Because he wants Labour to win and win big... If Labour doesn't win big, then as Starmer hasn't raised any real expectations, he will have a fight on his hands, from left and right.

It's not a 'genius political move' (those are your words)... it's common sense for an opposition leader in his current position. True, he's upset some on the left, but who are they going to vote for if not Labour? If they vote for anyone else there is the danger of letting the Tories off the hook by returning Labour with a low/slim majority... enough to govern maybe, but not enough to be in power and to make changes that count.



At this point in time, that's all Starmer has to be..!

Keep the faith... that's what's wanted Paul....!!

I'd rather another Tory government than another generation of neo liberalism. I hope he loses and loses big.

He has raised expectations by the way, you think his pay masters won't be expecting return on investment?

 

[Maticmaker]

I'd rather another Tory government than another generation of neo liberalism. I hope he loses and loses big.

Yes, I thought that might be behind your critique

 

[Raven]

Yes, I thought that might be behind your critique

Much the same as when your sort successfully ran Corbyn out of politics, the main difference being that he and his views belong in the labour party

 

[Badunk]

Imo this guy would make for a good labour leader right now.

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He's such a disappointing man.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Because he wants Labour to win and win big... If Labour doesn't win big, then as Starmer hasn't raised any real expectations, he will have a fight on his hands, from left and right.

It's not a 'genius political move' (those are your words)... it's common sense for an opposition leader in his current position. True, he's upset some on the left, but who are they going to vote for if not Labour? If they vote for anyone else there is the danger of letting the Tories off the hook by returning Labour with a low/slim majority... enough to govern maybe, but not enough to be in power and to make changes that count.



At this point in time, that's all Starmer has to be..!

Keep the faith... that's what's wanted Paul....!!

He may win over part of the electorate doing this - and a lot of people are so oblivious and take no notice of politics, just moan when it all goes wrong. Brexit is a prime example. Even the most nationalistic , xenophobic, racist was never going to get what they thought they were going to get when they voted for Brexit and that was obvious before it happened but people still pressed the self-destruct button.

The right-wing press will gang up against Starmer either way, whether he tries to be quiet, outspoken ,more right-wing or not. Thus trying to avoid upsetting his possible voters in Brexit ex-red wall seats won't matter. He also has to win over other people who want better lives including those who knew that brexit was insane.

The Tories had completely messed up the country and Brexit has added to it.

What the UK needed was a strong leader who was brave enough to call out everything that has gone wrong and have solutions to resolve starting from the day they became opposition leader. Four years after the last GE and the only opposition to the government seemed to come from the SNP , mainly Blackford. The Tories have been disastrous for the country but even with such an easy open goal he's too frightened of the press.

As I have little in the game, I'm looking at the situation as more a political study rather than picking a side to win. I don't see that he has any idea as to what to do and is not strong enough to do anything that might upset anybody.

He has to understand the problem to remedy it and then be bold enough to do something about it.

I don't see it. Appointing Starmer as leader, I believe, was a big mistake and will show to be so over the coming years. (And I was no fan of Corbyn)
Labour had one big chance to call all of the Tory mistakes out over the last four years (and before) but all that is said is that they can do the same things better.

If Starmer gets in , even with a large majority, the Tories will be back in 2029. Such an opportunity missed.

 

[Sweet Square]

He's such a disappointing man.

I didn’t voted for him the leadership election and never liked him but I had no idea he would be this bad/disappointing.

There is something so strange and disturbing about someone who completely changes in order to get into power. Like there’s no level he won’t sink to and for what ? To be a PM who spends most of his time doing new rounds of austerity.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

After the last election the general view was that Labour was finished and no one could recover that much ground in one election. I don't like Starmer but there was no one else in the party who could recover the ground Jez lost.

He still might not win and it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't but he has brought Labour within striking distance of the general election with a fighting chance. It is a political miracle that we could have a Labour govt instead of another five years of the exhausted, corrupt, clown show we have in power right now.

Everyone seems to have forgotten.

 

[Pexbo]

After the last election the general view was that Labour was finished and no one could recover that much ground in one election. I don't like Starmer but there was no one else in the party who could recover the ground Jez lost.

He still might not win and it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't but he has brought Labour within striking distance of the general election with a fighting chance. It is a political miracle that we could have a Labour govt instead of another five years of the exhausted, corrupt, clown show we have in power right now.

Everyone seems to have forgotten.

Do you really believe that this recovery is down to Starmer’s Labour and not the most corrupt, inept, risible Tory party we’ve ever seen turning the electorate into an “anyone but Tory” stance?

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

Do you really believe that this recovery is down to Starmer’s Labour and not the most corrupt, inept, risible Tory party we’ve ever seen turning the electorate into an “anyone but Tory” stance?

Give me a lucky general every time.

 

[Raven]

After the last election the general view was that Labour was finished and no one could recover that much ground in one election. I don't like Starmer but there was no one else in the party who could recover the ground Jez lost.

He still might not win and it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't but he has brought Labour within striking distance of the general election with a fighting chance. It is a political miracle that we could have a Labour govt instead of another five years of the exhausted, corrupt, clown show we have in power right now.

Everyone seems to have forgotten.

You seem to have forgotten the financial meltdown brought about by the Tories.