Kick It Out Campaign Row

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Looking back through this thread i do hope that some aren't not denying Fergie a right to be stakeholder in this debate, his place in having an opinion on the way to go about tackling the racism surrounding the sport.

Would not something more indisputably have been achieved in players [of all races] wearing anti-FA/Uefa/Fifa shirts next week, as opposed to this hijacking of the Kick It Out message today? This has struck me as a more petulant form of expression than otherwise could have been considered.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

In most professions other than football, using racist language would see you fired and struggling to find new employment. It even happened in football's associated media industry with Ron Atkinson.

It's not unreasonable to think that Terry should have been fired by Chelsea, or that the Kick It Out campaign should have publicly called for him to be sacked.

 

[Redlambs]

In most professions other than football, using racist language would see you fired and struggling to find new employment. It even happened in football's associated media industry with Ron Atkinson.

It's not unreasonable to think that Terry should have been fired by Chelsea, or that the Kick It Out campaign should have publicly called for him to be sacked.

What, England's Lion, Captain Marvel of our great country? Being called for to be sacked by a completely independent campaign calling for zero tolerance on racism?

What planet do you live on? Racism is best handled with words, and when it's someone high profile, you have to explain they are a naughty boy. Or, if you are part of the legal system, you have to listen to a friend of the gentleman in quetion telling you they may or may not have heard something racist, and decide that he may not be guilty so it isn't.

It really does all make perfect sense when you think about it.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

But then, I guess football isn't like other industries. Did we want Cantona sacked after he violently assaulted a member of the public whilst representing the club?

 

[JazzG]

feck off, his brother has been racially abused and the FA have handled the entire situation with kid gloves despite their anti-racism campaign. Fergie can do one, Rio has all the right in the world to protest.

Boohoo Fergie's feelings are hurt, how the feck do you think the Ferdinand family feel?

Does that makes it ok for them to undermine a campaign that has done a huge amount to eradicate racism in this country? A few isolated incidents imo shouldn't see them start boycotting this considering all the good work they have done down the years. Go and ask players like John Barnes or black/brown football fans who was too scared to go to football matches in the seventies or eighties and then compare that to now.

Their protests should be against the FA not against this campaign. Jason Roberts said

"The four-match ban was, for me, not a heavy enough sanction for what happened," Roberts said in the week.

"I'm totally committed to kicking racism out of football but when there's a movement I feel represents the issue in the way that speaks for me and my colleagues, then I will happily support it.

"I think people feel let down by what used to be called 'Let's Kick Racism Out of Football.'

"People don't feel like they have been strong enough."

I don't know why they are protesting against this campaign though, I genuinely think there is more to this story then there is being told. Have the people behind that backed John Terry's punishment or something? If that was the case then maybe I'd understand but I don't think everything is out in the open.

 

[Liam147]

But then, I guess football isn't like other industries. Did we want Cantona sacked after he violently assaulted a member of the public whilst representing the club?

I'd imagine most fans didn't. I'd imagine most wanted a lenient punishment. But at least our club came out and banned him for what, 22 games? Whereas Chelsea and Liverpool have either 'dealt with it internally' (mild fine), or absolved the guilty party of any blame.

Imagine the Liverpool/Suarez thing never happened. We'd be scrutinising Chelsea's handling of this. But because of how truly awfully Liverpool 'dealt' with it, Chelsea have come out looking quite well.

 

[Redlambs]

But then, I guess football isn't like other industries. Did we want Cantona sacked after he violently assaulted a member of the public whilst representing the club?

No, but then again I don't want Terry sacked.

However, Cantona was rightfully severely punished, Terry wasn't. Add to that there's no campaign for 'kick kicking fans out of football' but there is one for 'kick racism out of football', then we can see why Rio is annoyed in this case and doesn't want to support said campaign right now.

 

[Redlambs]

I don't know why they are protesting against this campaign though,

But the answer is in what you posted! He doesn't think the campaign represents him or speaks for him, so he doesn't support it.

And he's hardly protesting against the campaign, he just clearly doesn't want to be part of it. That's surely fair enough isn't it?

 

[JazzG]

But the answer is in what you posted! He doesn't think the campaign represents him or speaks for him, so he doesn't support it.

And he's hardly protesting against the campaign, he just clearly doesn't want to be part of it. That's surely fair enough isn't it?

The campaign was set up for people like him and other footballers who in the past may of been subjected to racial abuse. If someone like Rooney stopped supporting it people would brand him a closet racist yet it is ok for black/brown players to do it when it suits their views?

This imo is their way of protesting against the John Terry punishment and up until recently they supported it and now due his charge by the FA not being deemed strong enough they have decided not to. He even cites that him not getting a strong enough punishment was the reason. John Terry will forever be branded a racist & his reputation is forever tainted, he got a 4 match ban + £200k fine, his club has come out now to punish him and he has had to resign as England captain and effectively retire from international football so it isn't like he has got off with nothing here.

 

[Redlambs]

The campaign was set up for people like him and other footballers who in the past may of been subjected to racial abuse. If someone like Rooney stopped supporting it people would brand him a closet racist yet it is ok for black/brown players to do it when it suits their views?

This imo is their way of protesting against the John Terry punishment and up until recently they supported it and now due his charge by the FA not being deemed strong enough they have decided not to. He even cites that him not getting a strong enough punishment was the reason. John Terry will forever be branded a racist & his reputation is forever tainted, he got a 4 match ban + £200k fine, his club has come out now to punish him and he has had to resign as England captain and effectively retire from international football so it isn't like he has got off with nothing here.

But he fought it all the way, had to jump before he was pushed. Oh and let's not forget the fact he said a racist comment on a football pitch, lied about it and caused a lot of grief to the Ferdinand family over it all.

4-match ban and £200k fine isn't enough in my view. It might be in yours, but clearly Rio and Roberts disagree and that's their right to do so, surely?

 

[pillory]

I don't know why they are protesting against this campaign though, I genuinely think there is more to this story then there is being told.

Daniel Taylor tweeted this a few hours ago:

Problem for KIO, much of the time, is they are part-funded by the FA, so very hard for them politically to take issue with their £ suppliers. For example: KIO very unhappy, privately, about Terry in and Ferdinand out of Euro 2012. Publicly, though, they wouldn't take on FA

 

[JazzG]

I'm not saying it is, I think his punishment should be more in line with what Suarez got but he hasn't got away with it like some people are making it out.

They have every right to disagree and that is their right but by undermining this campaign in the long run it may no longer have credibility and fizzle out with nothing to replace it. Like I said maybe in this instance they feel the campaign didn't do enough but it has in the past and by not supporting it now imo I think they aren't showing enough respect to a campaign which has helped them and fellow footballers who might of had it a lot worse.

Daniel Taylor tweeted this a few hours ago:

That is fair enough I suppose but the FA surely wouldn't slap them down or pull funding for speaking up and risk causing a real shit storm because the credibility of the FA would be in tatters for doing so.

Should be funded by the PFA not the FA imo so they can be completely neutral and not influenced, if that is what has happened.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

All the more reason why these protests should be made against football's governing bodies directly, the people who actually determine policy you know. Nor should we be Fixating upon the Terry-Ferdinand case alone IMO, this of all weeks.

 

[Nogbadthebad]

Fergies problem in all this is he spouted off about Roberts without noticing his own player had done two things the day earlier.

A) tweeted that Jason Roberts was doing the right thing.

B) Given it was on the BBC rumour page , told at least one person he wouldnt be wearing the shirt either.

Fergie made a mistake.

 

[Lynk]

The way I see it is this, you'll never stop idiots from acting that way. While Serbia showed an extreme side of hatred in this sport, really is that different from any walk of life? If your different in any shape or form you'll get shit. If you're black in a predominantly white area you'll get shit. If you're white in a predominantly black area you'll get shit. If you're ginger, you get shit. If you're foreign you get shit. If you're fat, you get shit. If you're from a rival city, you'll get shit.

 

[jem]

Fergies problem in all this is he spouted off about Roberts without noticing his own player had done two things the day earlier.

A) tweeted that Jason Roberts was doing the right thing.

B) Given it was on the BBC rumour page , told at least one person he wouldnt be wearing the shirt either.

Fergie made a mistake.

I think SAF is going a bit over the line threatening to punish Ferdinand. If Fergie feels embarrassed, then maybe he should have thought things over before sounding off to the press about Roberts.

I love SAF, but it's not his really his role to be an arbiter of what's right and wrong in a matter as sensitive as this. If he chooses to adopt that role, then he should accept a grown man like Ferdinand choosing to make a personal stand (especially considering Rio has his own very compelling reasons for being disillusioned with the FA and by extension, Kick It Out) .

 

[holdsteady]

Fergie has no right to be embarrassed.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Fergie has no right to be embarrassed.

Why not?

It could be said that he misjudged one of his players, however if he backs KIO personally and believes that the club should do so as a body, knowing his character as we do he is bound to feel a bit put out surely?



Perhaps those critics of Fergie can enlighten me as to something, how does this stunt improve the experience of black England players when on international duty or those at any club side when away in from home in competition and in higher risk areas?

 

[Arruda]

Considering that the consensus around here is that John Terry and Suárez got off lightly, then it's fair to consider that these players probably think exactly the same thing.

If an organization dedicated to fighting racism in football didn't use these recent cases as ammunition to throw at the ruling bodies (even if they depend financially from these ruling bodies, this is a matter of principle) then they surely aren't doing enough, and regardless of the work they have done in the past, it's bloody well obvious that they should be criticized now.

And when you add the fact that this is now being actively discussed, you can't really make the case that these players are doing the wrong thing, as it has already served a purpose.

I can't understand how some of you (fortunately not the majority) think they'd be helping the cause more if they were "united" (and hence silent) behind this.

 

[jem]

I also think it's fair to wonder if SAF isn't upset because one of his players defied him, and apparently embarrassed him, rather than because he feels the KIO campaign has been undermined.

If that's the case (and of course we can never say for sure if it is,) then he loses the moral ground here, especially when you consider that the issue of effectively fighting racism is far more significant than that of a team unquestioningly following its leader's wishes.

 

[Galactic]

Rio having his Stam-moment here. Hope he'll apologize or he'll sadly suffer the same fate.

 

[Feed Me]

I also think it's fair to wonder if SAF isn't upset because one of his players defied him, and apparently embarrassed him, rather than because he feels the KIO campaign has been undermined.

If that's the case (and of course we can never say for sure if it is,) then he loses the moral ground here, especially when you consider that the issue of effectively fighting racism is far more significant than that of a team unquestioningly following its leader's wishes.

I reckon Fergie thinks nothing is more important than the manager's will.

 

[Drifter]

Rio having his Stam-moment here. Hope he'll apologize or he'll sadly suffer the same fate.

And how would that look on the club.It won't happen.

 

[Varun]

Rio having his Stam-moment here. Hope he'll apologize or he'll sadly suffer the same fate.

And how would that look on the club.It won't happen.

Exactly. There's no way he can be seriously punished. I do think he'l be benched by SAF to drive home the point and the media scrutiny will shoot up but it wont be anything more than that.

 

[Carl]

It's extremely rare I disagree with Fergie on such things but he's out of order here in my opinion.

That said, I don't really know what Rio expects KIO too do.

 

[Crumpsall Red]

In most professions other than football, using racist language would see you fired and struggling to find new employment. It even happened in football's associated media industry with Ron Atkinson.

It's not unreasonable to think that Terry should have been fired by Chelsea, or that the Kick It Out campaign should have publicly called for him to be sacked.

Especially for a club with a 'zero tolerance approach' to racism except it isn't funny

 

[Crumpsall Red]

It's extremely rare I disagree with Fergie on such things but he's out of order here in my opinion.

That said, I don't really know what Rio expects KIO too do.

I think it's the FA's promotion of KIO that Rio has an issue with .... followed by their inability to kick it out ... just ban it for 4 games instead.

 

[Crumpsall Red]

Rio having his Stam-moment here. Hope he'll apologize or he'll sadly suffer the same fate.

He'd better feckin not apologise I'd be livid if he did ... the apology should be the other way round.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

He'd better feckin not apologise I'd be livid if he did ... the apology should be the other way round.

Rio shouldn't apologise for his stance. The compromise might be apologising for not telling the manager in advance (if he didn't).

 

[duffer]

Chelsea v United next week and it's planned that both teams willl wear the T-shirts.

 

[Sultan]

In most professions other than football, using racist language would see you fired and struggling to find new employment. It even happened in football's associated media industry with Ron Atkinson.

It's not unreasonable to think that Terry should have been fired by Chelsea, or that the Kick It Out campaign should have publicly called for him to be sacked.

Quite!

Gets even worse as he is retained as captain after he himself, and his club admits he used racist language.

 

[Drifter]

Chelsea v United next week and it's planned that both teams willl wear the T-shirts.

What will be the point of that.

 

[duffer]

What will be the point of that.

They plan when and where the teams wear them months in advance (Chelsea didn't wear them yesterday for example).

 

[McGrathsipan]

Rio having his Stam-moment here. Hope he'll apologize or he'll sadly suffer the same fate.

Ferdidnand won't apologise on this, and he shouldn't.

Ferguson is wrong on this and Ferdinand has enough about him to know that he can probably take Ferguson on an win on this one.
I mean is Fergie going to sack ferdidnand over this....I dont think so.

headline......

"Ferguson sacks black player for taking a stance against racism......"

Not going to Happen

 

[TheBest]

I agree can't see him sacking Rio because racism issue is too sensitive and the club wouldn't want to be in the light like liverpool.

 

[Slevs]

A problem out of nothing, and between two stubborn men at that. Rio should apologize for not informing his manager of what he was going to do in the first place, whereas Sir Alex should apologize for sounding a bit too critical of the ones who doubt the campaign's objectives, although I still believe he has a point.

Neither is going to happen though, let's just hope for the best.

 

[McGrathsipan]

the interesting thing is the chelsea match next week

Will ferguson make drop him if he refuses to wear the tshirt, which will clearly weaken our team.
The manager has dug a hole for himself here.

 

[Slevs]

the interesting thing is the chelsea match next week

Will ferguson make drop him if he refuses to wear the tshirt, which will clearly weaken our team.
The manager has dug a hole for himself here.

That will definitely weaken us, but Sir Alex has made a point before with benching players he's fallen out with before important games.

 

[Sultan]

They plan when and where the teams wear them months in advance (Chelsea didn't wear them yesterday for example).

Crumpsall Red in the Rio thread suggests Rio should change the word racism on the t-shirt to read Terry.

"Kick out Terry"

 

[AVARiCE]

A problem out of nothing, and between two stubborn men at that. Rio should apologize for not informing his manager of what he was going to do in the first place, whereas Sir Alex should apologize for sounding a bit too critical of the ones who doubt the campaign's objectives, although I still believe he has a point.

Neither is going to happen though, let's just hope for the best.

When Sir Alex was making his absurd comments to the media regarding Roberts, most of us heard the rumours that Rio was contemplating the same thing too.

Regardless, why is it Sir Alex's business? Even if Rio told him to his face that he was going to wear the t-shirt but then didn't, what business of Sir Alex's is that? It amuses me that people are defending Sir Alex with the "it's just a t-shirt" excuse, as if to say that Rio was silly for generating an argument over the t-shirt. Well, let's counter that, why is Sir Alex being so stubborn over a t-shirt?

I'm sorry, Sir Alex is wrong on every level here. It's disappointing, to say the least.