Messi would have no chance in modern football...
Klopp to leave Liverpool at the end of the season
- Thread starter RonaldoVII
- Start date
Great to see how it ended for Klopp. This is one of the best manager of all time and Pool will not be so lucky to hit the jackpot again with their next manager appointment.
The had the best manager and only 1 PL titile...haha..
The had the best manager and only 1 PL titile...haha..
We're talking about a single point difference on both occasions where they pushed City to the last day.
A manager can give his team the best possible chance of winning, and then it's out of their hands.
Your logic dictates that in 2019 and 2022, Pep Guardiola was one Premier League point better than Jurgen Klopp. That's not the truth, though, is it? If you simulate those seasons 100 times each, it doesn't end in a 1 point difference in City's favor every time. It's just a logical fallacy, I'm sorry.
Very rarely will a 1 point difference have to do anything with the manager's abilities at the end of the season. Was Carlo Ancelotti better than Sir Alex Ferguson in 2010 by one point exactly? Or how do you define it? Chelsea finished 1 points ahead of us, but you surely don't think the only thing that decided that is the difference between Ferguson and Ancelotti? There's the two squads of players, small margins deciding several games, referee decisions, number of resting days between matches, I could probably list dozens of things.
Its not about bragging its the fact that we've never had a title challenge post fergie. Liverpool have and it makes a difference in assesing our quality on the pitch. And a pl title, ucl win and 3 ucl finals. There is a reason why Liverpool never thought about firing Klopp.
You’re comparing to Ole when the context was comparing to Sir Alex.
Winning a title with 80 points is clearly a much bigger achievement than coming second with 97 points.
Come on. You’ve gone from over blowing klopps achievements and calling them the best club side ever to out right talking bollocks to try and back up your crazy opinion.
Yes, and we lost to them by goal difference, but we still lost. It's not the point difference, or the goal difference, it's the getting over the line that matters. Second is nothing.
Can you thoroughly explain where the flaw in my logic is? Just make sure it's more than a single sentence, thanks.
Never mind Madrid, he included Arsenal
I think we've found a closet Scouser hiding in the long grass.
Fergie had his own "City" in Chelsea, whose spending relative to competition was probably higher than City. He simply got the job done and vanquished that beast to prove his quality, so his reputation is not so reliant on would haves, should haves and could haves.
That's fair enough but football is about winning - you can't compare them to any of the great PL sides just because they were valiant runners-up. They couldn't even come close to retaining their only PL title and barely scraped top 4 that season.
I don't follow sprinting, but surely football is a way more complex sport? Doubt yours is a good example
You put Fergie into the Klopp and Guardiola era and I can promise you two things:
1. Neither Klopp nor Guardiola finish the season on 98/97 points.
2. Whatever points total they are getting Sir Alex is thereabouts too.
Then how did Madrid scrape through City, who are the perfected version of Pep's ideas and philosophy? Unless you think his tactics didn't evolve from the Tiki Taka days of 15 years ago?
Surely this is all about relativity? Obviously in 10 years, assuming money keeps piling into the sport, there'll be a team that would dick everyone now but would they better for their moment in time?
Also with tactics being cyclical it all depends on who and when we discuss. That Barca team's issue would be more that if they time warped to today, everyone is pressing at a high level and teams are uber fit and I'm not sure tiki taka would be as effective as it was then. In the same way Mou's initial Chelsea team which only conceded 15 goals and lost 1 game all season would not be as effective now as everyone knows how to play against 433.
Does the perfected version of Pep’s ideas have the greatest player that ever kicked a ball at the peak of his powers?
Pep's Barca had a generational team of players, including possibly the greatest ever.
The key word there is 'scrape'. Play that game on a loop 10 times and City go through on 7 or 8 occasions.
100 percent. I love it when the closet scousers on here try to paint Fergie as a dinosaur who wouldn't have been able to adapt to today's level of football, like 1986 was the same level as 2013
It's a waste of time mate. The recency bias is strong with this one.
There's also so many variables that can decide a 1 point difference over 38 games. I agree with your logic, but it doesn't diminish Klopp's work at all.
This is unbelievably dumb.
It was a different period, different team, different opponenets. Difficult to compare. But considering that we won those leagues with point differences of 2, 4, and 6 points, variance could've easily swung it in Chelsea's or Liverpool's favor in one of those seasons. Would it have made Ferguson a worse manager? No.
But they didn't. What the hell are you talking about
Now this. This is a unique take.
Of course that will happen.
Arguing against how Klopp is a loser for losing out on the title by one point on two occasions. Google variance and probability theoryBut they didn't. What the hell are you talking about
First of all, as Liverpool's near title misses, and our own miss on gd shows, 4 points and 6 points are pretty big gaps.
I also don't think you're considering whether/how much we took our foot off the gas once the title was all but assured. Like last year, City could've easily racked up another 6 points if they really had to. But once Arsenal crumbled, there was no need.
You might think that's what you're arguing, but it's not.
Can’t tell if sarcastic or not?
Not sure what your point is here. Pep's philosophy and ideas obviously improved over the last 15 years. Not saying that City has better players than 2009 Barcelona, though.
Why would it be sarcastic? In the 2030s I expect tactics and football overall to be even more evolved than it is now.
So you do understand my point about simulating something 100 times and the outcome not being the same every time. So why can't you admit that Klopp is a great manager who could've easily won 3 titles instead of 1? A single point difference often doesn't have much to do with the manager.
"closet scousers" "scouser bootlicking" You're embarrassing. Just because you can't think critically or put your bias aside for a second, it doesn't mean I like Liverpool.100 percent. I love it when the closet scousers on here try to paint Fergie as a dinosaur who wouldn't have been able to adapt to today's level of football, like 1986 was the same level as 2013
And I didn't even say any of that about Ferguson.
It's not recency bias.
So tell me where the flaw in my logic is? I usually get one sentence answers to this, try to do better than that.
No I genuinely just couldn't tell from your post
So why try to argue that Klopp's Liverpool is one of the greatest sides in the history of football when you know that there were better sides with better players 15 years ago?
There's always room for nuance, but if we can't accept that a win is a win and a loss is a loss, then what's the point of competing?
Klopp is an all-time great already, but he can't claim to be better than managers with almost 4 times as many major trophies than him. The same logic applies to Fergie by the way. Just because he was unlucky to run into that Barcelona team twice, he can't claim to be as good of a CL manager as Ancelotti. He still the better manager overall, though.
Klopp is an all-time great already, but he can't claim to be better than managers with almost 4 times as many major trophies than him. The same logic applies to Fergie by the way. Just because he was unlucky to run into that Barcelona team twice, he can't claim to be as good of a CL manager as Ancelotti. He still the better manager overall, though.
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It is. And it is confusing evolution with systematic progress.
One of the best doesn't mean the best, and Pep's Barca were better in those years, than Liverpool from 2018 and 2022. They probably also won less than what they should have with that team of ~2008-2012.