Edited the posts, absolute eyesore.
Kylian Mbappe | PSG
- Thread starter RDCR07
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
You're not paying a lot of attention are you? The reactions are happening because after those string of impressive performances you have people claiming he's either as good as Rashford or on the way to being the greatest ever.Is he world class or isn't he? who cares. Way too many people in here micro-managing things. Mbappe has a string of great performances and along comes a Redcafe Squidward to remind us that he's not peak Messi
It's clear that we are witnessing a generational talent, who is both potential without limit and presently not out of place playing next to Neymar.
Well to be fair, he isn't compared to Messi at his peak but Messi at 18 years old. The same way Messi was compared to Maradona. The problem here is that people try to ignore the 18 years old part in order to have a dig.
It's been mentioned in this thread that he has the potential to be the greatest footballer ever. So forget peak Messi/Maradona or 18 year old Messi/Maradona, a comparison between ability can and will be made. And I haven't seen that sort of ability from him. That isn't a dig at all.
Maybe potential GOAT is a stretch but hardly ridiculous, maybe generational talent would have more appropriate, I said that based on his maturity on his play, rarely you see 18 years old with that kind of decision making and maturity already, to add more he's fast, very good dribbler and very good finisher, I don't know what more you could expect from an 18 years old
I mean if you saw Cristiano at 18 and you said he's GOAT candidate, I believe many would think you're being ridiculous as well, but here we are and now he and Messi are always in the talk of being GOAT
I agree.
Also, Mbappe is much better than CR at 18. No comparison for me. Much more efficient and makes better use of his teammates. He plays like a veteran. The only difference is will a team indulge Mbappe like SAF indulged CR? That's the only thing that could hold him back atm. Mbappe reminds me more of CR in the 06/07 season with better decision making.
Personally I think that you are being pedantic. First, 18 years old Messi didn't had goat abilities either he was just the best 18 years old player around, secondly 18 years old is always too soon to make goat projections but people will still do it because we are curious to know who is going to be the next big thing.
I don't know if Mbappé is better than Messi at 18 years old but what I do know is that they both have the ability to win you games at the very top level, by themselves at 18-19 years old, at 18 years old they are in the same bracket than Rooney, Owen and Ronaldo as you can see two of them didn't capitalize on their precocity. Someone like Cristiano Ronaldo wasn't that good and it's fine since a football career last more than a couple of years.
Also if we only talk about 18 years old players, Pelé is supposed to easily dwarf all of them put together.
Of course I've noticed the hyperbole. I have accounted for that.
No one is making the claim that he's "on the way to being the greatest ever". In nineteen pages I haven't read anyone assert that. What I have read is people label him presently as world class, if that's what you mean?
Love how Rooney gets the "he had great decision making and vision at 18".
He doesn't have great vision and decision making now. Did he lose these fabled mental attributes just like his legs? The former improves over time, not degrades, as you become more experienced.
When it comes to using 18 year old Rooney as a comparison to 18 year old Mbappe, certain people use the haze of nostalgia strongly to base their argument on because they have a strong emotional attachment to the era that Rooney flourished from.
He doesn't have great vision and decision making now. Did he lose these fabled mental attributes just like his legs? The former improves over time, not degrades, as you become more experienced.
When it comes to using 18 year old Rooney as a comparison to 18 year old Mbappe, certain people use the haze of nostalgia strongly to base their argument on because they have a strong emotional attachment to the era that Rooney flourished from.
Yes.
Just rewatched his Euro 04 on youtube. Altough no doubt special for his age, I vison and decision making weren't his outstanding attributes.
Potentially the GOAT. One of the posts I quoted. You missed it.
You base your point on a single individual's post? I could understand if there was an emerging consensus. There isn't. One person exercised hyperbole. Non issue.
Nope I have zero attachment to Rooney. You just took the logic of a post and ran haywire with it.
Rooney was extremely intelligent and had great vision for an 18 year old combined of course with great physical attributes. He also played in a much tougher league than Mbappe does. Does this mean that he was a bigger talent than Mbappe or that we're playing the latter down? Not at all. It was merely used to point out that Rooney was miles ahead of Ronaldo in terms of intelligence decision making and how naturally the game came to him, than Ronaldo. Yet the latter caught up (somewhat) in these aspects but trumped him in other and ended up a much better footballer.
So Mbappe being more intelligent than, say, Dembele or Martial doesn't mean he will end up better. Although at the moment he does look the better player to me.
Also Rooney's entire game has fallen apart with age. It's hard to use intelligence or vision when everything else let's you down. And also those aspects of his game we're great for a teenager. Maturity is only expected from mature individual. It's impressive coming from a kid.
I base my point in response to a person's post on that person's post. If you're doing it differently you're obviously doing it wrong. One person exercised hyperbole. I responded to that person. Which makes your post a non issue really.
I haven't seen anyone say he is?
But Mbappe very definitely isn't "world class" or better than established world class strikers as people on here seem to want to believe.
Every time a young player appears on the scene you get people on here talking about them as if they've already got nothing left to prove and everything is 100% certain.
When Ronaldo and Rooney were Mbappe age yoou'd have been laughed at and probably abused on here for claiming Rooney wasn't the better player.
Use common sense and wait and see how he develops, instead of pretending he's already something he isn't.
True enough. Ultimately though, Rooney never cared about his body with the drinking binges and smoking, while Ronaldo was more dedicated with his body and looking after it.
Mbappe might go off the rails in future but for now the signs are promising. With Ronaldo being his idol, I'd be surprised if he let himself go.
I agree with you. The potential is there but at the moment he still has a lot, not only to do but to be consistent at.
Dunno if i misunderstood you or what, but Messi at 18 was openly compared to Maradona. What he became, is what most people expected him to become back in 2006. And no, he wasn't just the best 18 year old in the world, he was a starter on the best team in the world. He was already a difference-maker at the highest level. On a particularly good night he outshined ronaldinho
Btw, the argument regarding whether Mbappé is already world class or not is simple: how many players have been performing as well or better than him in 2017? Whether you believe it's too early or not, it is a fact that Mbappé has been performing at a WC level in 2017.
He doesn't have the ability in small spaces that Messi or Maradona had but why should that matter? He's not that kind of player and to be one of the greatest of all time you don't need to play a certain way. There's a lot more to football than the player's talent and how good they look on the ball. With space and on the counter he's a lot more dangerous than them for example.
From what we've seen so far, he definitely has the talent and personality to become one of the greatest ever. He may or may not fulfill that potential but it's pretty obvious we're witnessing something very special.
You do IMO. Well not a certain way but being able to beat 4-5 defenders is a common theme amongst the greatest footballers of all time. And rightfully so. They're less reliant on service than others. How good they "look" on the ball? When Maradona beats 4 defenders he does more than look good. He takes players out of the game on his own and opens up the game. It's one of those qualities you see in a sport every 15-20 years.
He does look a special talent. I'm just not sure he's shown enough yet to say he's going to be a tier 1 player.
Cristiano Ronaldo doesn't have that kind of ability either, didn't stop him from matching up Messi's 5 Ballon d'Ors.
Yeah and he's not as good as him. Let's move on from that miserable topic.
Well we disagree then. I don't think you need to be able to beat 4-5 defenders, it's a good thing if you can but there's plenty of other ways to make a big difference in football. If someone like Inzaghi in the future manages to score 2000 goals by averaging an hattrick per game and leading his team to all sorts of trophies can't he be one of the greatest too?
When I said 'how good they look on the ball', I meant 'how good they are on the ball'. Thought it meant the same thing, language barrier problems. Fair enough anyway, I'm a huge fan of Mbappe and really think he'll turn out to be one of the greatest of all time but it's best we just wait and see.
Sure ageee to disagree.
Back to Mbappe. I didnt "get" what made him special earlier. It's very clear now. Going to follow him more closely for sure.
Yeah let's move on from the point that totally destroys your argument, sure.
Oh my. Such destruction. Balon Dor. What an "argument".
Jog on to that childish thread to carry on this boring crap.
Back to the relevant topic, what do people think will end up his best position? Is his hold up play strong enough to be a CF?
Well, I don't care about the comparisons. I also think Messi is the more talented of the two, but then I think Ben Arfa is more talented than Benzema, doesn't change who accomplished more. At the end of the day, it's the accomplishments people remember, not the talent. And Messi is at risk of ending up second-best to a less talented player in terms of achievement, and that alone proves your point wrong that you don't need to be Maradona and dribble through 4-5 players to be an all-time great.
He'll be remembered as the better player because he is the better player. Team achievements will keep fluctuating as they do cyclically among the big boys.
I think we're done on this topic. It doesn't belong here.
I think he'll be able to play in all positions across the front three, Cavani is 30 so he might end up taking his place in a few years. He doesn't have the hold up play of traditional strikers but it won't matter.
Great pass for Draxler's goal, which was an incredible volley. The one thing about Mbappe is that I feel he is being too passive so far in his start at PSG. I think the ego clash between Neymar and Cavani gave him things to think about. I see him looking to pass much more than scoring, which is fine for now because they are winning and he's always having an impact on the game, but I want him to be more aggressive and chasing goals a bit more.
He's clearly a generational talent. Dembele, Martial, Asensio and co. are all good players with world class potential, but Mbappe is arguably already better than they will ever be.
I think that he is easily the best 18 years old player I have seen in my life (I don't remember Luis Ronaldo), and by a distance better than Messi when he was 18. Saying that, Messi kind of exploded when he was 19, so let's see if Mbappe can match that.
I think that he is easily the best 18 years old player I have seen in my life (I don't remember Luis Ronaldo), and by a distance better than Messi when he was 18. Saying that, Messi kind of exploded when he was 19, so let's see if Mbappe can match that.
Cold-blooded finish, I think this was pretty much his first clear chance in the game and he put it away like a veteran.
Cavani coming off, Mbappe will spend some time at CF now.
Assist
Goal
Goal
Those players are 20, 21 and 21 respectively. It;s ridiculously early to make that comment.
Mbappe walks any team in Earth. It is far from certain that they will reach that level.
I was more referring to the current one, who plays more like Mbappe does (wide forward). He used to be a winger whose primary aim was to beat a man and get a cross in and the decision making is a different mindset for that.
It's actually very good, go watch a highlight of his touches against Dortmund in the CL midweek, or the matches against Bayern or Juve in last year's CL. Aside from the finishes and getting into great positions, he's very good at passing and running into space, or dragging players away with him when he needs to. It's what makes him so productive. Yeah every now and then he tries to go it himself and fails, but that's just the selfishness top players have.