Leicester - the title is still theirs to lose.

If Leicester maybe winning the premier league isn't the kick up the arse the big teams need to get their act together then nothing will be, it's a great story, but all it does is expose how utterly crap the so called big teams are this year, plus they'll likely get hammered in the CL next year, and that along with Spurs probably not doing great, and Arsenal doing the usual, is really going to put the 4th CL spot under pressure, and rightfully so imo.

Why do you assume that Leicester City will get "hammered" in the CL next season? And why do you assume that Spurs probably wouldn't do well when we reached the QFs in our previous outing?

You imply that the reason Leicester top the league is because all the "big teams" have become crap. But the fact that last season's top 4 have all done worse this season points to a common factor - something much more than just random coincidence. I'd suggest that the common factor is that the improvement in most of the other teams due to their increased income and/or improved management. In other words, the "big teams" have been found out - exposed by the fact that there are now very few automatic gimme wins in the Prem. It's become more competitive.
 
Not sure why people are getting hung up on the idea that Leicester City winning the league exposes the quality of the league. Can't we just all enjoy a fairytale season without worrying about what it all means?
 
They have had 31 matchdays this season. If you add the last 7 from last season, you get this:
24 wins, 10 draws, 4 losses = 82 points.

My god, how is that possible. :lol:
 
And why do you assume that Spurs probably wouldn't do well when we reached the QFs in our previous outing?
I don't think something that happened five years ago with a completely different squad will factor into how you do next season.
 
I don't think something that happened five years ago with a completely different squad will factor into how you do next season.

Fair enough, except that we now have a better squad than last time - as our league position shows - and will likely improve it further this summer, So question still stands.
 
Fair enough, except that we now have a better squad than last time - as our league position shows - and will likely improve it further this summer, So question still stands.
Your higher league position now is largely due to poor quality of Premier League and especially top sides. You would not be that high if United of 2011 or even Chelsea from back then were still in the league.
 
Not sure why people are getting hung up on the idea that Leicester City winning the league exposes the quality of the league. Can't we just all enjoy a fairytale season without worrying about what it all means?

Because people are miserable bastards who can't enjoy anything.
 
Fair enough, except that we now have a better squad than last time - as our league position shows - and will likely improve it further this summer, So question still stands.
Your league position doesn't prove that. Unless you believe the likes of Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool are as good as they were then.
 
Your higher league position now is largely due to poor quality of Premier League and especially top sides. You would not be that high if United of 2011 or even Chelsea from back then were still in the league.

No, the quality of the Premier league as a whole - which is much wider than just the "top sides" - has improved, making it more competitive and reducing the number of automatic gimme wins. This is because all of the clubs now have access to more money from TV rights and some of them have appointed good managers. The "top sides" haven't been able to handle this and have been found out.

The proof of the pudding is that all of last season's top 4 are doing worse this time around. Your explanation relies on some mysterious "co-incidence" as to why they've all declined together at the same time.
 
Your league position doesn't prove that. Unless you believe the likes of Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool are as good as they were then.

There are other teams in the league besides those three - and most of these other teams have improved since then, making them more difficult to beat. So it's swings and roundabouts.

It's laughable how the league table never lies ... except when most of "top clubs" aren't doing so well.
 
There are other teams in the league besides those three - and most of these other teams have improved since then, making them more difficult to beat. So it's swings and roundabouts.

It's laughable how the league table never lies ... except when most of "top clubs" aren't doing so well.
There are. And none of them are as good as United and Chelsea were then. Clearly evidenced by how shit our clubs have been in Europe in comparison.

Nobody's saying the league table is lying and that Spurs aren't currently one of the best teams. Just that the best teams in this league aren't as good as they once were so being second now isn't evidence you have a better team than one that finished fourth amongst better teams.
 
They have had 31 matchdays this season. If you add the last 7 from last season, you get this:
24 wins, 10 draws, 4 losses = 82 points.

My god, how is that possible. :lol:
Incredible achievement
 
No, the quality of the Premier league as a whole - which is much wider than just the "top sides" - has improved, making it more competitive and reducing the number of automatic gimme wins. This is because all of the clubs now have access to more money from TV rights and some of them have appointed good managers. The "top sides" haven't been able to handle this and have been found out.

The proof of the pudding is that all of last season's top 4 are doing worse this time around. Your explanation relies on some mysterious "co-incidence" as to why they've all declined together at the same time.

Arsenal are the same they were, City are worse, United are much worse and Chelsea do not really need to be explained. Top sides quality has gone downhill as evidenced by European performances, not even up for debate.
 
Nothing miraculous about them not winning it. They are still Leicester and the remaining games are difficult games.
No more difficult than the run ins Spurs and Arsenal have. And if Leicester is still Leicester with your complete disregard of their performance this season, then Tottenham and Arsenal are still what they are, usual 3-4th spot contenders. So I take it you are expecting all the front 3 to falter leaving a title race between City and us?
 
Arsenal are the same they were, City are worse, United are much worse and Chelsea do not really need to be explained. Top sides quality has gone downhill as evidenced by European performances, not even up for debate.

The point is that the quality of the league overall has improved, for the reasons I gave. Last season's top 4 can't handle it ... they've melted like butter in a frying pan when the slightest heat has been switched on. It's a new reality, so best you learn to deal with it.
 
The point is that the quality of the league overall has improved, for the reasons I gave. Last season's top 4 can't handle it ... they've melted like butter in a frying pan when the slightest heat has been switched on. It's a new reality, so best you learn to deal with it.

Utd, City and Chelsea will be back at the top next season, Tottenham will be chasing Arsenal for 4th spot
 
The point is that the quality of the league overall has improved, for the reasons I gave. Last season's top 4 can't handle it ... they've melted like butter in a frying pan when the slightest heat has been switched on. It's a new reality, so best you learn to deal with it.
To anyone who wonders why people don't want Spurs to win the league...
 
The point is that the quality of the league overall has improved, for the reasons I gave. Last season's top 4 can't handle it ... they've melted like butter in a frying pan when the slightest heat has been switched on. It's a new reality, so best you learn to deal with it.

It has not improved much over the last year or two. It's something people keep saying but there isn't much evidence to that. Are Norwich, West Brom and Palace really better than mid-table teams from 5 years ago? How?

Last season's top 4 were not great teams aside from Chelsea who were very good. Their decline was mostly down to the turmoil they were in at the start of season. City are still struggling against anyone decent, Arsenal are Arsenal while United are in the exact same position as a year ago, struggling to make top 4. Point is there is much less quality than there used to be. Put a half decent European side in this league and they'd be laughing. There are at least 5-6 teams outside England who'd walk PL now.

BTW can you make a point without the bullish stuff? 'Learn to deal with it' :lol:
 
It has not improved much over the last year or two. It's something people keep saying but there isn't much evidence to that. Are Norwich, West Brom and Palace really better than mid-table teams from 5 years ago? How?

Last season's top 4 were not great teams aside from Chelsea who were very good. Their decline was mostly down to the turmoil they were in at the start of season. City are still struggling against anyone decent, Arsenal are Arsenal while United are in the exact same position as a year ago, struggling to make top 4. Point is there is much less quality than there used to be. Put a half decent European side in this league and they'd be laughing. There are at least 5-6 teams outside England who'd walk PL now.

BTW can you make a point without the bullish stuff? 'Learn to deal with it' :lol:

I really think you're under estimating the change in the PL over just about the last decade. Now, don't get me wrong, the teams are not "better", it's that they are harder to beat, top to bottom. I've talked about this before, but there is such a marked difference between the way the game is played in England now, and how it is played in Germany, Spain and even Italy.

In Germany and Spain there is an optimistic openness to the game, even the shite teams try to play. As a result they tend to get blown apart by the really big teams. In England? Nobody plays like that, and worse, they now have the money to go out and buy the players tailor suited to the systems almost everyone runs against the stronger teams.

For lack of a better term, virtually all the mid table and lower teams play Mourinho ball, and they are backing it up with very direct, very athletic players. They tend to be very strong, fast and organized in defense and they are playing for the counter. They have very strong, direct forwards to exploit this, and they come straight at you. How is this different than say 7 years ago? The personnel has changed because the money is better.

I really think that Memphis is a perfect example of this. Memphis plays in the Dutch league and he is a physical monster, his athleticism complimented by his skills saw him tear that league apart. He comes to the premier league and he looks slow, pedestrian, awkward and clumsy at times. Now, I know that the Eredivisie isn't Germany or Spain, but the level of athleticism is more comparable between those three leagues than it is with England.

This isn't saying this wins you games, but it makes it VERY difficult for stronger teams to beat you. These teams are using the tried and true Mourinho style, and it's a style that can be summed up as "not playing to win, playing not to lose". As we've seen with the money the PL teams have to throw around, the quality of players that can succeed in that system is constantly increasing. It's a style that is designed to minimize risks, and exploit to the maximum degree any mistakes the other side make. It's a style that tends to get the most out of the players, it's very effective and the rest of Europe doesn't seem to have seen it adopted whole-sale in their leagues.

This doesn't mean that Madrid or Barcelona or Bayern München wouldn't come in and win the league here, it means that they'd have a harder time winning those games than normal, and they'd occasionally get done in by a bottom half team that parked the bus and exploited the counter.
 
I really think you're under estimating the change in the PL over just about the last decade. Now, don't get me wrong, the teams are not "better", it's that they are harder to beat, top to bottom. I've talked about this before, but there is such a marked difference between the way the game is played in England now, and how it is played in Germany, Spain and even Italy.

In Germany and Spain there is an optimistic openness to the game, even the shite teams try to play. As a result they tend to get blown apart by the really big teams. In England? Nobody plays like that, and worse, they now have the money to go out and buy the players tailor suited to the systems almost everyone runs against the stronger teams.

For lack of a better term, virtually all the mid table and lower teams play Mourinho ball, and they are backing it up with very direct, very athletic players. They tend to be very strong, fast and organized in defense and they are playing for the counter. They have very strong, direct forwards to exploit this, and they come straight at you. How is this different than say 7 years ago? The personnel has changed because the money is better.

I really think that Memphis is a perfect example of this. Memphis plays in the Dutch league and he is a physical monster, his athleticism complimented by his skills saw him tear that league apart. He comes to the premier league and he looks slow, pedestrian, awkward and clumsy at times. Now, I know that the Eredivisie isn't Germany or Spain, but the level of athleticism is more comparable between those three leagues than it is with England.

This isn't saying this wins you games, but it makes it VERY difficult for stronger teams to beat you. These teams are using the tried and true Mourinho style, and it's a style that can be summed up as "not playing to win, playing not to lose". As we've seen with the money the PL teams have to throw around, the quality of players that can succeed in that system is constantly increasing. It's a style that is designed to minimize risks, and exploit to the maximum degree any mistakes the other side make. It's a style that tends to get the most out of the players, it's very effective and the rest of Europe doesn't seem to have seen it adopted whole-sale in their leagues.

This doesn't mean that Madrid or Barcelona or Bayern München wouldn't come in and win the league here, it means that they'd have a harder time winning those games than normal, and they'd occasionally get done in by a bottom half team that parked the bus and exploited the counter.

Good post.
 
Question

Do people think players like Drinkwater and Huth and Morgan would improve any other team in the top half or do they just act well.in that set up ?
 
The point is that the quality of the league overall has improved, for the reasons I gave. Last season's top 4 can't handle it ... they've melted like butter in a frying pan when the slightest heat has been switched on. It's a new reality, so best you learn to deal with it.

Are you back off your pills again?
 
Utd, City and Chelsea will be back at the top next season, Tottenham will be chasing Arsenal for 4th spot

United haven't been back at top for the last 3 seasons: the odds on that suddenly changing just because the Mourinho circus is coming to town are not great. You'll likely toss away some more hundreds of millions, junk half of your current squad and exile most of your young prospects ... all to no great effect except turmoil, bitchy comments about other teams/managers/match officials and the media spotlight being firmly where Mourinho likes it: on himself.

Chelski have big problems if their own - some ageing players and several players who'll want out this summer. I doubt they'll fix that in one summer.

City and Arsenal I'll grant you ... but then they're in the current top 4 anyhow.
 
It feels like Leicester are grinding out wins but Spurs seem in top form. Going to be a pretty exciting run in for both clubs supporters.
 
To anyone who wonders why people don't want Spurs to win the league...

Why are you so precious about the clubs with lots of money - sugar-daddy or otherwise? It is a frustrated sense of "entitlement"? Are you outraged that Leicester City top the league? Does it bug you that Spurs - who've spent virtually nothing in net terms for many windows past - sit in 2nd place?

What this season has shown - contrary to the fond belief of many it seems - is that throwing bucketloads of cash around is far less important than good club management, good scouting and good coaching. And what this season has also shown is that lower and middle-table clubs have generally become a lot harder to beat - because they now too all have a bit of spare money themselves, and will have even more next season.

Things have changed. The cosy assumptions of the past are showing distinct cracks.
 
Why are you so precious about the clubs with lots of money - sugar-daddy or otherwise? It is a frustrated sense of "entitlement"? Are you outraged that Leicester City top the league? Does it bug you that Spurs - who've spent virtually nothing in net terms for many windows past - sit in 2nd place?

What this season has shown - contrary to the fond belief of many it seems - is that throwing bucketloads of cash around is far less important than good club management, good scouting and good coaching. And what this season has also shown is that lower and middle-table clubs have generally become a lot harder to beat - because they now too all have a bit of spare money themselves, and will have even more next season.

Things have changed. The cosy assumptions of the past are showing distinct cracks.

Au contraire, most United fans would love it if Leicester win the league, and piss themselves laughing at Spurs throwing away their best chance at the league in 3 generations.

It would be a travesty if it doesn't happen. They deserve it far more than anyone else.
 
What this season has shown - contrary to the fond belief of many it seems - is that throwing bucketloads of cash around is far less important than good club management, good scouting and good coaching. And what this season has also shown is that lower and middle-table clubs have generally become a lot harder to beat - because they now too all have a bit of spare money themselves, and will have even more next season.
The money has definitely levelled the playing field of your average first 11 player in the PL. I think what we are seeing is the importance of keeping the key difference makers fit.

It's no coincidence that Leicester are doing well when they've barely had an injury and Mahrez, Kante and Vardy have played nearly every minute.

Similar with Spurs, Kane, Eriksen, Alli, Alderweireld nearly always available. If Kane gets injured you'd worry for top 4.

Arsenal have suffered through injuries to Cazorla and Sanchez and others throughout the season.

City have had major problems with Aguero, Kompany, Silva and De Bruyne.

Us and Liverpool have probably had more injuries to significant players than any other team.

Injuries are all part of the game but Leicester and Spurs have had extremely fortunate seasons in that regard.
 
Not going to happen. Talk of their easy run is a little overstated, with City and West Ham away, and even teams like Watford at home, that they just lost to!

They'll probably finish above Tottenham though, many tough games for them.

Leicester are notching these 1-0s off, the games are going down, and their lead remains the same.

5 ahead of Tottenham (if Tottenham win), 11 ahead of Arsenal, having played one more.

That's 11 points ahead!!
We'll see. I think overall Leicester's remaining games are more difficult than Arsenal's. City are knackered now, and Arsenal have had good results against them in the past.

No more difficult than the run ins Spurs and Arsenal have. And if Leicester is still Leicester with your complete disregard of their performance this season, then Tottenham and Arsenal are still what they are, usual 3-4th spot contenders. So I take it you are expecting all the front 3 to falter leaving a title race between City and us?
City and us are out of the title race. Out of Leicester, Tottenham and Arsenal Leicester are imo the most likely to falter. Arsenal are bottlers, when they compete with top teams like United, Chelsea or City (when they were top teams). Arsenal have never bottled a top 4 race, i.e. a race with the likes of Tottenham, Everton, ...etc., and they usually finish the season strongly. We still don't know what Leicester are made of, because they have never been in this situation before, and unless a team can show that they can close it out and win a title, they will not be looked at as champions.

By the way, Arsenal have had many runs in the past when they win 6,7,8 in a row to salvage a top 4 finish. They are capable of making such good runs after such bad runs. It's what have been keeping Wenger in his job for the last 10 years.
 
They fully deserve it, at the start of the season, the questions were asked about how they'd cope long term playing so open and having a dodgy defence. Ranieri has clearly coached them over the last few months to defend better and it's working, 8 clean sheets since the new year, just 3 before.
When they had the run of games of Liverpool, city and Arsenal, they again answered questions and would have won all three games if not for Danny Simpson being dropped on his head as a kid.

Still people are writing them off but their composure and calmness during these last few weeks (considering this is a team that has never won anything) is nothing short of ridiculous.
They're the complete and total opposite of Arsenal, you don't see people like Morgan, Huth , Vardy and Kante, messing about with selfies, beards and haircuts. It's about getting the job done.
Ourselves, city and Chelsea have had shocking seasons but I feel these are three sides in transition, whereas it's Arsenal at their peak and still Leicester are showing more guts than them.


I also think we should get some credit, after all Simpson, Drinkwater and James (ignoring the fact he's not kicked a ball this season) came from our academy. Also if it wasn't for Peter Schmeichel, there'd be no Kasper, so that's sort of academy. Oh and we lost 5-3 to them that one time, that put them on the map and they've not looked back since.
 
Utd, City and Chelsea will be back at the top next season, Tottenham will be chasing Arsenal for 4th spot

No guarantee that Chelsea will suddenly become top 4 worthy again, with a new manager and possibly losing the likes of Costa and Hazard.
 
No guarantee that Chelsea will suddenly become top 4 worthy again, with a new manager and possibly losing the likes of Costa and Hazard.

Who's Costa linked with? Hazard I can see leaving, but Costa, not so much.
 
They fully deserve it, at the start of the season, the questions were asked about how they'd cope long term playing so open and having a dodgy defence. Ranieri has clearly coached them over the last few months to defend better and it's working, 8 clean sheets since the new year, just 3 before.
When they had the run of games of Liverpool, city and Arsenal, they again answered questions and would have won all three games if not for Danny Simpson being dropped on his head as a kid.

Still people are writing them off but their composure and calmness during these last few weeks (considering this is a team that has never won anything) is nothing short of ridiculous.
They're the complete and total opposite of Arsenal, you don't see people like Morgan, Huth , Vardy and Kante, messing about with selfies, beards and haircuts. It's about getting the job done.
Ourselves, city and Chelsea have had shocking seasons but I feel these are three sides in transition, whereas it's Arsenal at their peak and still Leicester are showing more guts than them.


I also think we should get some credit, after all Simpson, Drinkwater and James (ignoring the fact he's not kicked a ball this season) came from our academy. Also if it wasn't for Peter Schmeichel, there'd be no Kasper, so that's sort of academy. Oh and we lost 5-3 to them that one time, that put them on the map and they've not looked back since.

All rubbish, except for last bit. Last bit's so true, Leicester should share their title (if they win) with us really. Not so serious
 
I think they'll win it with two to spare. I don't see Spurs doing enough to stop them, the draw against Arsenal exposed their weaknesses as much as it did the opposition.

Has the international break come at a bad time for them? Not sure, you would bank on them to win the remaining home games.

It's not an overly impressive collection of players, but Leicester have the most competent team in the division.
 
No guarantee that Chelsea will suddenly become top 4 worthy again, with a new manager and possibly losing the likes of Costa and Hazard.

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