That settles it.
Lionel Messi is OFFICIALLY the Greatest Player of all Time (CONFIRMED OFFICIAL)
- Thread starter Pexbo
- Start date
He wouldn't even be in the conversation for me, but seems spurious not to acknowledge that he is (or was) for many others... After this win, I think that Messi's status as the greatest of all time will become the majority opinion among football fans.
What small margin?
The difference is Messi actually played in the final scoring 2 goals, initiating the other goal, creating many clear cut chances in the final unlike Ronaldo who has not played for more than 15 minutes in the EC final and the supposedly weak Portuguese team "without Ronaldo" won the EC in Paris against France so that he could get all the credit in the end..
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Undoubtedly Ronaldo is one of the best natural goal scorers of all time, he was the complete package but his narcissism is outrageous and a complete turn off for a lot of people, though it’s probably what attracts Piers Morgan to him.
Both were great to watch at the peaks especially as they had opposite approaches to the game, one would beat players in a slalom and the other for just sheer pace. Though I’ve personally always believed Messi was better purely because he too could post huge numbers and could also contribute to the team more than Ronaldo would.
Either way it’s like comparing a scalpel to a chainsaw.
The difference is too big as Ronaldo never had the technical. creativity, playmaking abilities at the GOAT level or never considered a GOAT level dribbler.
He cannot be compared to creative playmaking geniuses like Maradona, Cruyff, Messi, Xavi, Modric etc. as he simply lacks those skills..
The only reason he was involved in the conversation is his goals output, and Messi easily matches him in that while at the same time being one of the greatest playmakers, creators, dribbles ever..
If Gerd Muller played in this social media age, he would definitely be seen as a GOAT too with what he did.. Ronaldo owes a lot to the presence and power of social media..
Argentina might have challenges as a country now.
But the massive european influence in the early days of football clearly helped them to set the difference comparing to their neighbors Peru,Ecuador,Chile, Paraguay, etc
Well Ronaldo actually was far better than Xavi, Modric and a lot of other players in terms of dribbling and technical qualities when he was younger, did you even saw him play for Manchester United?
He's style surely changed with the years but let's be honest, Ronaldo imo is a far better player than Maradona or Cruyff, nevermind the others you mentioned.
Messi is the best ever, that I have no doubt about.
To be honest I hate this term goat. Everything now is goat this goat that. Someone praised Modric calling him a goat which apparently meant goat midfielder. fecksake.
But yeah what separates Messi from the footballers I've seen (as I can't compare him to one's I havent) is that he's elite at playmaking, goalscoring and dribbling (and trophy count if it matters). It's just absurd to be that good at so many things. Which is why it may a decade or so till we see another.
Are you seriously telling me he is in the same technical universe as Modric and Xavi, I mean really??
At United, he was an explosive player exciting to watch, this is not the same thing as technique..
Let's be honest.. Ronaldo is not comparable to Maradona for the big majority of football fans, it is a different level.. I have never seen Ronaldo being compared to Pele or Maradona.. As for Cruyff, again, Ronaldo is no match in terms of talent..
Ronaldo is more comparable to Gerd Muller than any of these geniuses..
Was he?
Please stop talking nonsense
Love it
I agree. But i truly think it will be the debate of the next decade
He is only better than Ronaldo because he has the robe.
#Robed
#Robed
No way.
Imagine seriously "arguing" that C. Ronaldo of all players ( ) is a better talent and footballer than Lionel Messi let alone that he has had a better career resume.
I can only think of Portugal supporters (I would imagine that even most of them deep down already know and recognize that Messi is the better player and talent), fanatical RM fans the likes of Tomás Roncero and his insufferable likes that had to suffer from Barça's and Messi dominance and in the process numerous spankings in head to head games like never before and the most uncritical and deluded pro-CR7 fanboys among the Man Utd fanbase (given the recent events I imagine that this percentage is tiny nowadays). I can't think of anyone else.
Even on a Man Utd and English/UK/Irish dominated forum like this one, 80-90% (from what I can see) rate Messi far higher and have done so long before the 2022 World Cup.
No point even mentioning what the majority of the football greats (players and managers alike) and football experts think in this debate and that was also the case for a very long time.
The greatest legacy of C. Ronaldo will be that he was even in the conversation for this long, although this was mostly a media created conversation as any sane football fan should be able to see (easily) who the better and more talented player is and has always been.
Anyway the GOAT debate is pretty much over. The worst that can happen for Messi is that his biggest critics will rate him alongside the other 2 widely established greats in Pelé and Maradona.
The story of Messi is not over though. Although it might be unrealistic, I would love to see him try to compete for the Copa América in 2024 and the World Cup in 2026. It would be such a shame and an incredible waste of talent if he went to the MLS next summer. Although it is unlikely to happen, I would love for him to return to Barça next summer. The way he was forced to leave was criminal (thanks to arguably the worst club president and junta in football history) for the greatest performer at a single club in football history and after 21 years of unmatched service.
) is a better talent and footballer than Lionel Messi let alone that he has had a better career resume.I can only think of Portugal supporters (I would imagine that even most of them deep down already know and recognize that Messi is the better player and talent), fanatical RM fans the likes of Tomás Roncero and his insufferable likes that had to suffer from Barça's and Messi dominance and in the process numerous spankings in head to head games like never before and the most uncritical and deluded pro-CR7 fanboys among the Man Utd fanbase (given the recent events I imagine that this percentage is tiny nowadays). I can't think of anyone else.
Even on a Man Utd and English/UK/Irish dominated forum like this one, 80-90% (from what I can see) rate Messi far higher and have done so long before the 2022 World Cup.
No point even mentioning what the majority of the football greats (players and managers alike) and football experts think in this debate and that was also the case for a very long time.
The greatest legacy of C. Ronaldo will be that he was even in the conversation for this long, although this was mostly a media created conversation as any sane football fan should be able to see (easily) who the better and more talented player is and has always been.
Anyway the GOAT debate is pretty much over. The worst that can happen for Messi is that his biggest critics will rate him alongside the other 2 widely established greats in Pelé and Maradona.
The story of Messi is not over though. Although it might be unrealistic, I would love to see him try to compete for the Copa América in 2024 and the World Cup in 2026. It would be such a shame and an incredible waste of talent if he went to the MLS next summer. Although it is unlikely to happen, I would love for him to return to Barça next summer. The way he was forced to leave was criminal (thanks to arguably the worst club president and junta in football history) for the greatest performer at a single club in football history and after 21 years of unmatched service.
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Do we have an annual top ten award on the caf for insane comments? How about this one?
“When Pele and Maradona played (especially Pele) game was still amateur.”
“When Pele and Maradona played (especially Pele) game was still amateur.”
The game has changed but it's also become a lot easier for attacking players to flourish now and get more goals and assists. Players are protected more these days. It's no coincidence that in the last 15 years we've started to see players regularly get close to 40+ goals a season for large periods of their career (Messi, Ronaldo, Lewandowski, Suarez, Mbappe, Haaland, Salah). This used to be a rarity in the 70's, 80's and 90's. Maradona and Pele played on terrible pitches (compared to today's) and were also subject to physical assault on a regular basis.
That's why I don't really believe in a single GOAT. You can't fairly compare different era's.
I want to see how he responds to this checkmateHe’s absolutely dismantled you there @SportingCP96
Game, set and match.
Order of the greats in my opinion.
1. Messi
2. Pele
3. Maradona
4. Cruyff
5. Cristiano
1. Messi
2. Pele
3. Maradona
4. Cruyff
5. Cristiano
Mbappe v C.Ronaldo will actually become a good debate at some point. I reckon Mbappe will surpass Cristiano eventually
How old are you?
If by technical you mean, dribbling or beating a man with the ball at the feet, then yes, I think Ronaldo until 25 was better than Xavi or Modric. Afterwards, his style went into another direction.
I'm not comparing Ronaldo with Maradona or Pele in terms of position vs position on the pitch. My opinion is that Ronaldo, in the history of this sport, will be regarded a better player overall than Pele or Maradona, because of goals scored, team trophies, individual accolades, personal records and so on.
I never seen Pele kick a ball and I've only seen Maradona a couple of times when his career was already declining, maybe I'm wrong.
I wrote this in response to a post (Pre semi final I think) asking would Messi be recognized as Maradonas equal (or higher) if he were to win the world cup but I think it applies here.
I think he will be a lot closer (especially with the younger generations who are more critical of Maradonas flaws) but ultimately most will favor Diego due to reasons that are hard for non Argentines to understand.
I wasn't born in Argentina, I just reside here (for my sins) so it took me awhile to appreciate what Maradona means to the Argentine people.
I'd frequently get into "debates" with friends and family who would ignore pretty much any stat I could give that would show Messi's superiority over Maradona etc but year on year I grew to appreciate the fact that while you can attempt to quantify their rationale (The world cup) the love/ appreciation they have for Diego Maradona is unquantifiable.
It's emotional and spiritual and although he was one of the finest footballers In the history of world football it's nearly secondary to the feelings of hope that he gave an entire nation in bleak times.
Had Maradona died when I first arrived I wouldn't have understood the significance of the event, after some years here I could empathise with my friends and family members who wept tears of sadness that he was finally gone while crying tears of joy when talking about the impact he had on their lives.
Messi can't do that.
He can't recreate the feeling around Argentina around the fall of the Military Junta and the Malvinas (Falklands) War.
Diego fought for them at their lowest point and won.
Argentina is a beautiful country with a proud people but in many ways the beauty is only skin deep and superficial while the pride is rooted in events that move further away as time passes.
Spend enough time here and you feel the profound sadness, the country feels like an ageing supermodel/movie star desperately clinging onto their youth when they were the best thing around and are now struggling to come to terms with their wrinkles and weight gain.
They long for years gone by.
You see the collapse of a great nation in its older buildings, built to the highest standards years ago during prosperous times but falling into disrepair nowadays alongside signs on stores (abandoned now) when the dollar and peso had parity (it's around 300/1 now).
This country is in desperate need of a hero and I really hope that Messi can do it for all of us here.
If he does he will be second only to Diego IMO but he won't replace him as God around these parts (but to be honest no body could).
Of course, The only real metric is in winning everything that the entire sport has to offer. And, if you're going to nit-pick, doing it it in such a way that is utterly jaw-dropping, exemplary and crossing that rare threshold where a sport turns into art .
The shift in his / Argentina NTs fortunes have been insane. After their 2018 WC exit you'd and all those finals you couldn't have predicted a Copa and an all time WC final win in the space of 3 years.
It's easily between Pele, Messi and Buffon. Pick your poison, basically.
So for argument's sake let's say Messi has played 863 games for club and country, while Ronaldo has played a total of 951 games overall.
Arguably it's only been in Ronaldo's last 30-40 games that people have felt confident proclaiming Messi as the undisputed GOAT while saying Ronaldo is now a complete liability.
Let's also say Messi has a decent rest of the season with PSG but then next year - when he gets nearer to Ronaldo's game total - falls off a cliff in terms of performances.
Will we be okay saying Messi isn't all that just like we're saying about Ronaldo?
white text before anybody takes me too seriously
Arguably it's only been in Ronaldo's last 30-40 games that people have felt confident proclaiming Messi as the undisputed GOAT while saying Ronaldo is now a complete liability.
Let's also say Messi has a decent rest of the season with PSG but then next year - when he gets nearer to Ronaldo's game total - falls off a cliff in terms of performances.
Will we be okay saying Messi isn't all that just like we're saying about Ronaldo?
white text before anybody takes me too seriously
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Depends if Messi decides to do an interview with Piers Morgan.
I saw the white text, but your post does have some point to it based on the way the internet football fan thinks.
I have a sneaky suspicion that the last chapter of both their career's is yet to be written.
Messi has always been the better footballer. One just has to pay attention to their actual performances.
Exactly. Until yesterday, people might have argued that Pele/Maradona were greater players than Messi, despite Messi being way better than them (for example, I think that he is better than Maradona ever was at practically everything and better than Pele at everything except heading).
A bit like how Sir Isaac Newton being the greatest physicist of all time, despite that any modern physicist is way better at physics than him. Or how pretty much any modern general knows more about the warfare than Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan and Napoleon put together. It is the natural way of thinks, but somehow there are people (who usually have never seen Pele and co play) who claim that they were better than the modern robots.
Or take the ‘greatest dribbler of all time’ Garrincha, and check his videos. There is nothing great on those videos if you compare with modern footballers. Most of them are running straight with defenders being 5m away, followed by some crosses in keeper’s hand or Row Z. The likes of Nani or Robben, let alone Messi, dribbled better than him. Or go and check the decision making of the past greats. Massive disappointment.
First Take is a good example — every time I catch some of it, they’re just comparing and critiquing each others’ lists!
If you don't think that Messi is the GOAT, then I will only accept the explanation if you subscribe to the idea that you can't compare players across eras and that Maradona and Pele very well could have been as good if they were born later. But in this case you kind of agree that Messi is the GOAT. It's just that he has to share the spotlight with some other players, which is fair enough.
Any other explanation will just be wrong. Whether you focus on hard data or skill Messi comes out on top.
Any other explanation will just be wrong. Whether you focus on hard data or skill Messi comes out on top.
I am keen to see the response to this. Don't ever underestimate the power of that poster though, he WILL have a spin on it.
A lot of players, managers and pundits have called him the best ever since 2010/2011 including Ronaldo´s ex team mates.
Edit: Damn white text