He wouldn't even be in the conversation for me, but seems spurious not to acknowledge that he is (or was) for many others... After this win, I think that Messi's status as the greatest of all time will become the majority opinion among football fans.Anyone trying to edge Ronaldo into the Messi-Pele-Maradona debate is an absolute cringe merchant.
What small margin?Yup. I thought that Sporting poster made a fair point about Martinez having a vital save at the end, just like Eder provided a vital goal for Portugal in 2016. Small margins.
Undoubtedly Ronaldo is one of the best natural goal scorers of all time, he was the complete package but his narcissism is outrageous and a complete turn off for a lot of people, though it’s probably what attracts Piers Morgan to him.He wouldn't even be in the conversation for me, but seems spurious not to acknowledge that he is (or was) for many others... After this win, I think that Messi's status as the greatest of all time will become the majority opinion among football fans.
The difference is too big as Ronaldo never had the technical. creativity, playmaking abilities at the GOAT level or never considered a GOAT level dribbler.I don't know what to say about that, it's not like Ronaldo won underserved Ballon D'ors. The competition was so high between them in their prime that it was very difficult to choose in some cases. Ronaldo had seasons when he scored 60+ goals.
The fact that Modric(imo a little underserved) and Benzema won them after Ronaldo's departure does not detract from his merits. Messi had a great team around him also that helped him shine.
Overall, I think the difference between them is not that big but overall Messi is the better player, no doubt. Also, maybe Messi has another year or two left to achieve even more, whereas Ronaldo seems finished.
Argentina might have challenges as a country now.Pele > Messi > Ronaldo > Maradona
The real takeaway is that the Argies have produced two of the top four footballers of all time. Incredible, especially for a country which has as many challenges as Argentina does.
Well Ronaldo actually was far better than Xavi, Modric and a lot of other players in terms of dribbling and technical qualities when he was younger, did you even saw him play for Manchester United?The difference is too big as Ronaldo never had the technical. creativity, playmaking abilities at the GOAT level or never considered a GOAT level dribbler.
He cannot be compared to creative playmaking geniuses like Maradona, Cruyff, Messi, Xavi, Modric etc. as he simply lacks those skills..
The only reason he was involved in the conversation is his goals output, and Messi easily matches him in that while at the same time being one of the greatest playmakers, creators, dribbles ever..
To be honest I hate this term goat. Everything now is goat this goat that. Someone praised Modric calling him a goat which apparently meant goat midfielder. fecksake.The difference is too big as Ronaldo never had the technical. creativity, playmaking abilities at the GOAT level or never considered a GOAT level dribbler.
He cannot be compared to creative playmaking geniuses like Maradona, Cruyff, Messi, Xavi, Modric etc. as he simply lacks those skills..
The only reason he was involved in the conversation is his goals output, and Messi easily matches him in that while at the same time being one of the greatest playmakers, creators, dribbles ever..
If Gerd Muller played in this social media age, he would definitely be seen as a GOAT too with what he did.. Ronaldo owes a lot to the presence and power of social media..
Are you seriously telling me he is in the same technical universe as Modric and Xavi, I mean really??Well Ronaldo actually was far better than Xavi, Modric and a lot of other players in terms of dribbling and technical qualities when he was younger, did you even saw him play for Manchester United?
Let's be honest.. Ronaldo is not comparable to Maradona for the big majority of football fans, it is a different level.. I have never seen Ronaldo being compared to Pele or Maradona.. As for Cruyff, again, Ronaldo is no match in terms of talent..He's style surely changed with the years but let's be honest, Ronaldo imo is a far better player than Maradona or Cruyff, nevermind the others you mentioned.
Was he?Well Ronaldo actually was far better than Xavi, Modric and a lot of other players in terms of dribbling and technical qualities when he was younger, did you even saw him play for Manchester United?
He's style surely changed with the years but let's be honest, Ronaldo imo is a far better player than Maradona or Cruyff, nevermind the others you mentioned.
Messi is the best ever, that I have no doubt about.
Please stop talking nonsenseJust to remind everyone that this thread is to celebrate Messi, not about bringing other legends from the past and giving them "GOAT" arguments. There are no more arguments for others as GOATs, only subjective opinions.
When Pele and Maradona played (especially Pele) game was still amateur. When Maradona played, game elevated to a more serious competition but you could still smoke cigs and play. Today you can barely skip a training session and be ready for the game.
Love itGoing by that logic, winning Champions League for RM was easier since they already had 9 before Cristiano came while Barcelona had only 1 before Messi came, therefore Messi CL achivements are more difficult than Cristianos.
I agree. But i truly think it will be the debate of the next decadeHaaland is a monster, but the big question mark with him is whether or not he will customarily deliver in massive games, because he hasn't played in any thus far. With Mbappe, we already know that he's a Billy Big-Time with bells on.
He’s absolutely dismantled you there @SportingCP96Going by that logic, winning Champions League for RM was easier since they already had 9 before Cristiano came while Barcelona had only 1 before Messi came, therefore Messi CL achivements are more difficult than Cristianos.
No way.To be replaced by Mbappe one day probably
The game has changed but it's also become a lot easier for attacking players to flourish now and get more goals and assists. Players are protected more these days. It's no coincidence that in the last 15 years we've started to see players regularly get close to 40+ goals a season for large periods of their career (Messi, Ronaldo, Lewandowski, Suarez, Mbappe, Haaland, Salah). This used to be a rarity in the 70's, 80's and 90's. Maradona and Pele played on terrible pitches (compared to today's) and were also subject to physical assault on a regular basis.Just to remind everyone that this thread is to celebrate Messi, not about bringing other legends from the past and giving them "GOAT" arguments. There are no more arguments for others as GOATs, only subjective opinions.
When Pele and Maradona played (especially Pele) game was still amateur. When Maradona played, game elevated to a more serious competition but you could still smoke cigs and play. Today you can barely skip a training session and be ready for the game.
I want to see how he responds to this checkmateHe’s absolutely dismantled you there @SportingCP96
Game, set and match.Going by that logic, winning Champions League for RM was easier since they already had 9 before Cristiano came while Barcelona had only 1 before Messi came, therefore Messi CL achivements are more difficult than Cristianos.
Mbappe v C.Ronaldo will actually become a good debate at some point. I reckon Mbappe will surpass Cristiano eventuallyDifferent type of players. Mbappe v Ronaldo would be more apt. Personally I can't put Ronaldo in the same bracket as players like Messi, Maradona or Pele. Way different skill sets in what I enjoy more in a player. Mbappe the same which isn't to say he's not a great player.
@IFC 1905 , @RacingClub ?Messi is undisputed GOAT but for Argentines, Maradona is still their saint, I think
How old are you?Well Ronaldo actually was far better than Xavi, Modric and a lot of other players in terms of dribbling and technical qualities when he was younger, did you even saw him play for Manchester United?
He's style surely changed with the years but let's be honest, Ronaldo imo is a far better player than Maradona or Cruyff, nevermind the others you mentioned.
Messi is the best ever, that I have no doubt about.
Are you seriously telling me he is in the same technical universe as Modric and Xavi, I mean really??
At United, he was an explosive player exciting to watch, this is not the same thing as technique..
Let's be honest.. Ronaldo is not comparable to Maradona for the big majority of football fans, it is a different level.. I have never seen Ronaldo being compared to Pele or Maradona.. As for Cruyff, again, Ronaldo is no match in terms of talent..
Ronaldo is more comparable to Gerd Muller than any of these geniuses..
I wrote this in response to a post (Pre semi final I think) asking would Messi be recognized as Maradonas equal (or higher) if he were to win the world cup but I think it applies here.
Of course, The only real metric is in winning everything that the entire sport has to offer. And, if you're going to nit-pick, doing it it in such a way that is utterly jaw-dropping, exemplary and crossing that rare threshold where a sport turns into art .It's hard to argue against it even deep down Piers know who is the Goat.
Depends if Messi decides to do an interview with Piers Morgan.So for argument's sake let's say Messi has played 863 games for club and country, while Ronaldo has played a total of 951 games overall.
Arguably it's only been in Ronaldo's last 30-40 games that people have felt confident proclaiming Messi as the undisputed GOAT while saying Ronaldo is a complete liability.
Let's also say Messi has a decent rest of the season but then next year - when he gets nearer to Ronaldo's game total - falls off a cliff in terms of performance.
Will we suddenly be saying Messi isn't all that just like we're happy saying about Ronaldo?
white text before anybody takes me dramatically seriously but still keen to post the quesiton
I saw the white text, but your post does have some point to it based on the way the internet football fan thinks.So for argument's sake let's say Messi has played 863 games for club and country, while Ronaldo has played a total of 951 games overall.
Arguably it's only been in Ronaldo's last 30-40 games that people have felt confident proclaiming Messi as the undisputed GOAT while saying Ronaldo is suddenly a complete liability.
Let's also say Messi has a decent rest of the season with PSG but then next year - when he gets nearer to Ronaldo's game total - falls off a cliff in terms of performances.
Will we suddenly be saying Messi isn't all that just like we're saying about Ronaldo?
white text before anybody takes me too seriously
Messi has always been the better footballer. One just has to pay attention to their actual performances.So for argument's sake let's say Messi has played 863 games for club and country, while Ronaldo has played a total of 951 games overall.
Arguably it's only been in Ronaldo's last 30-40 games that people have felt confident proclaiming Messi as the undisputed GOAT while saying Ronaldo is now a complete liability.
Let's also say Messi has a decent rest of the season with PSG but then next year - when he gets nearer to Ronaldo's game total - falls off a cliff in terms of performances.
Will we be okay saying Messi isn't all that just like we're saying about Ronaldo?
white text before anybody takes me too seriously
Exactly. Until yesterday, people might have argued that Pele/Maradona were greater players than Messi, despite Messi being way better than them (for example, I think that he is better than Maradona ever was at practically everything and better than Pele at everything except heading).I suppose if you believe football is generally played to a higher level now than in the past then someone could be the greatest (as in the best footballer relative to their era) without being better than a current day footballer in terms of a direct comparison of skills or level of play.
Like in Chess for example, where you could argue that Gary Kasparov is the greatest Chess player of all time despite Magnus Carlsen having played a higher level of Chess than Kasparov ever did.
First Take is a good example — every time I catch some of it, they’re just comparing and critiquing each others’ lists!Yeah the fact that so many people across the internet / social media, get so worked up and heated when debating who the mythical 'GOAT' is in whatever sport, day after day, month after month etc., in many cases I'm sure getting themselves banned from whatever forums / platforms they're on as well, just seems farcical to me. You see comical exchanges where people get so angry that they cannot convince either other their favourite player is the undisputed GOAT (of course there's no such thing), and just cannot enjoy the fact that those players had an amazing career.
It tennis, I've seen people getting banned and creating multiple accounts on YouTube, reddit etc. to make the exact same arguments that their favourite player is the GOAT. As toxic as debates between fanboys / fangirls of modern day big 3 players have been, the Graf vs. Seles debates on the women's side have been on a whole different level.
I spend a lot of time in the US, and I had to avoid shows such as First Take / the Undisputed (as entertaining as Shannon Sharpe is) after a while, with their obsession with GOAT debates in basketball in-particular (there seemed to be almost daily Jordan vs. Lebron debates and regular all-time top 10 segments) and also the NFL (although the NFL segments are generally better than the NBA ones because more active NFL teams move the needle). When they branched out and discussed other topics, those not involving Lebron, Brady etc., the segments were usually more enjoyable.
I am keen to see the response to this. Don't ever underestimate the power of that poster though, he WILL have a spin on it.Going by that logic, winning Champions League for RM was easier since they already had 9 before Cristiano came while Barcelona had only 1 before Messi came, therefore Messi CL achivements are more difficult than Cristianos.
A lot of players, managers and pundits have called him the best ever since 2010/2011 including Ronaldo´s ex team mates.So for argument's sake let's say Messi has played 863 games for club and country, while Ronaldo has played a total of 951 games overall.
Arguably it's only been in Ronaldo's last 30-40 games that people have felt confident proclaiming Messi as the undisputed GOAT while saying Ronaldo is now a complete liability.
Let's also say Messi has a decent rest of the season with PSG but then next year - when he gets nearer to Ronaldo's game total - falls off a cliff in terms of performances.
Will we be okay saying Messi isn't all that just like we're saying about Ronaldo?
white text before anybody takes me too seriously