Such disrespect. Just trying to get famous off Ronaldo's name.
Lionel Messi | PSG Watch
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Had great fun getting into it during lockdown, especially being able to watch games in a rough chronological order and seeing certain styles and approaches go in and out of fashion.
Although personally speaking I can't rate two players from distinct eras against each other, and while he's been criticised for his stance, I can see why Cyberman would resort almost purely to achievements rather than appraising the player on performances when it comes to Pele/Messi. When there's a half dozen decades separating the two it can be hard to meaningfully compare and contrast exactly what they did on the pitch
It’s not a lot of games but if you watch Pele’s World Cup performances you can see him over a 12 year period, from 18 to 30, at the highest level. Highs and lows, from all-time great goals in the final to being kicked out of the tournament. I think you’d find it difficult to argue it paints an unrepresentative picture of him if you watched it yourself and lined it up with how he’s described in written reports at the time. It definitely doesn’t give you a one dimensional perspective covered in gloss.
It’s obviously true that unless you lived in São Paulo you saw less of Pele than the average football fan has seen of Messi over the last decade. That‘s true of the people who watched Pele live in the 60s, just for those moments in the World Cup, and came away thinking it’s the greatest player they’ve ever seen. It’s true for people who watched Maradona in the 80s and chose him as their hero.
Those judgments were based on incomplete information but I don’t think you should discard them. I don’t think you need to see that much of Messi to think he’s unbelievably good. Very casual footballs that only watch some of the World Cup games and some of the CL knockout games can see that. I think that’s true for people watching Pele, Maradona and many others back in the day.
You can’t be sure their views are that reliable. But then that’s not really what it’s about, is it? When people say Messi’s the best ever, most of the time it’s not a carefully weighted opinion based on thorough analysis. It’s an emotive thing. Same thing with people in the 80s saying Maradona was the best ever, di Stefano doesn’t come close. It’s mostly just a celebration and recognition of the joy they’ve brought them, and how it’s unparalleled.
What a fantastic asisst. Turned Gvardiol inside out multiple times. Solid penalty too. At the age of 35 he's had an impeccable WC.
Good post.
Finally it has paid off to him to be on a weak link were he could rest the last season in order to turn on for the most important tournament in his career. He's nothing like the Messi we all remember at his prime in Barcelona but now he's appearing on crucial moments when the games are close and he isn't choking his penalties.
Now his age and expierence are showing up and he still has his amazing balance to carry the b
Now his age and expierence are showing up and he still has his amazing balance to carry the b
Yes agree and to reply to @Pogue Mahone I think there’s a lot of footage out there for Pele to draw a rough image even if you didn’t necessarily grow up in an era to see a lot of his games, it’s the same exact thing with George Best I only needed to see a few full games and clips documentaries matched with the stats we have for him to know he was probably the greatest British player ever. Even with now how many players have several goals where they are running through 4-5 players on the way to score a goal or make an assist, some things are rare in any era.
To bring it back to now, we do have greater access to football and players now, but how many people actually sit through a season and watch La Liga football every week week in week out of every season, I know I certainly don’t and it’s the exact same thing with Messi at PSG.
For a lot of us we might actually sit down and watch Messi maybe 5-15 times a season and a lot of those games would have been big games like El Classico CL and World Cup. I think I actually watched more La Liga in the 90’s and early 00’s because it got to a point where it became so predictable in regards to Barcelona Messi and Madrid and Ronaldo that you almost could afford to miss a game and go back on highlights and clips on Twitter.
That’s how a lot of this new generation consume football, which is why there is always debates about making the game shorter for the new audience who are more palatable to taking information in short clips and doses, hence we have Tik Tok and the likes.
There is a greater access to books for example than any generation, you’ve got them in the library but also online but does that mean we read more? No I would say we read books far less than generations gone past it’s just the consequence of the new generation, saying that there is enough footage and information to get a rough picture of how players played like, what level they played at and so on.
Of course we don’t see the bad parts and games but even now our memory has a way of forgetting that for current players anyways, few of us will remember every season and every game in detail, De Bruyne for example started last season slowly but that’s already etched a lot of our minds by the time it comes to the end of the season, if a scout for example needed to watch a 100 games of Pele and Messi to know they are genius players they probably wouldn’t be in their job.
CR fans on redcafe down bad with this quote
If he wins this final I think the Messi or Ronaldo discussion is done and dusted and the next discussion is Maradona or Messi. Maradona is the best I’ve seen in my lifetime but given Messi’s achievements ( if he wins) and his longevity it will be a toss up between the two with Messi perhaps coming out on top. I remember Pele but not enough to watch him live .
nah, regardless of Sunday he is the GOAT. Just absurd what he is doing.
The GOAT. I know we are shite, but when they played us, the rest of the Argentina squad looked very average but he was just running rings around us, we couldn't even get close to him. Really did show the levels. Ridiculous that he's still so good at his age.
Wake up hon, you're in 2014.
Messi surpassed him like a decade ago.
No one sensible continues the Messi Ronaldo debate
The scary and odd thing is, he is. Which to me is mind blowing given how poor he looked the season before at PSG.
Apparently Endrick had a post on Twitter praising Messi, but had to delete it after being abused by Madrid fans
Deflected into the goal? If so then the assist would have been Messi's. He stands a good chance of finishing as top scorer and top assist maker in the this tournament
Messi is an anomaly in football's history, we're going to go back to normal viewing now. I like that tbh
Yep we won’t see another R9 type for a good while too, him Messi and maybe Ronaldinho stylistically are the freaks of their generation.
Very mature performance. If only Messi was used like this in the past, he probably would've won more WC.
I wonder why opponent don't just stick one player dedicated to mark him out, just like Gentile with Maradona.
I wonder why opponent don't just stick one player dedicated to mark him out, just like Gentile with Maradona.
I think I legit confused you with @Sayros maybeI'm not a PSG fan. Why would you say such a thing? I'm a United fan.
Apologies man! No wonder you were confused AF
Of course performances are important too, obviously with these level of players you're naturally assuming they have played an important part in getting their team to the final and having a role to play in the final too even if they don't necessarily be the best player in the actual final. Naturally most things will flow through this ilk of player i.e. Pele, Maradona, Di Stefano, Cruyff, etc
Reason why no one can take Pele's argument lightly let alone Diego, is the sheer number of GOATs in the 1970 World Cup alone... Beckenbauer, Burgnich, Facchetti, Charlton, Muller, Banks, Cubillas, Moore... he was past his prime and still showed why he was the King of Football.
Messi needs a win and a solid performance in the final to give himself the best possible chance of putting forward a strong argument... to have played well against Netherlands/France, two solid sides IMO under utmost pressure, as well as besting the best CB of the tournament and possibly best CB of the next generation, thats a pretty impressive legacy.
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Not true. That was up for debate until around when Ronaldo joined united which was a disaster move on both parties since the both ruined each other. If he would have joined a club competing for honors it might have been a different story. Ronaldo still has all the stats but Messi getting a World Cup will finish it.
No, anyone watching football knew back in 2015 onward (if not earlier it was Messi). His and Ronaldo’s goal scoring numbers were comparable but Messi’s playmaking was what always had him be a class above
Many people don't have any sense. They are simply in love with CR7 and will defend him no matter what (see Piers Morgan).
This has to be one of the most straightforward cases of small man syndrome ever.
I really hope he doesn't go to America. It would be a complete waste.
He can go to Argentina in 2 or 3 years
He can go to Argentina in 2 or 3 years
Messi has as many goals, significantly more assists, and has always had the superior technical ability when it comes to dribbling, ball control, and flair. He's always been the better footballer.
Modric will not be invited for dinner.
I have no idea what you're on about, njred, but you are wrong.
It's not HIM losing the final (if they do lose), it's the TEAM. I hate this narrative that a player has to win a trophy to prove this or that, when it heavily relies on 10 other players turning up and playing well too
terrible post..
How does Ronaldo have all the stats when Messi has won more Ballon D'ors (7-5), Golden Shoes 6-4), IFFHS World's Best Playmaker awards (4-0), International Tournament MVP awards (5-0),? Messi surpasses Ronaldo in almost every key dimension as a GOAT level playmaker+dribbler+ goal scorer vs Ronaldo as a pure goal scorer, mostly poacher.. For neutrals and most football fans, there has never been a debate.. Messi can easily match or surpass Ronaldo in goal scoring (and beauty of goals). In creativity, playmaking, passing, vision, dribbling, Ronaldo can only dream of things that Messi, Maradona type of players can do as his technique is poor.
Ronaldo's WC record alone (0 goals, 0 assists in 8 knock-out games in 5 WC editions) makes it ridiculous to put his name along all time greats..
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It's only applicable to Messi.
These few remaining Ronaldo fans still believe Ronaldo won Euros (despite playing 15 mins in the EC final against France) and not Portugal, imagine the level of hypocrisy
That's Ronaldo eating alone then.
Piers Morgan isn't in love with Ronaldo he is just a bottom feeder
Well Modric can kiss his relationship with Ronaldo goodbye. In all honesty anyone who understand how the game is played and isn't wearing tinted glass knows Messi is the goat.
It always baffles me how can so many people argue CR7 and Messi at the same level, now this might help explain it. Most CR7 fans are probably fans of Madrid and Man United, which happen to be two of the biggest clubs.
Reminds me of when Marcelo called Messi the best player ever and Ronaldo threw a tantrum as a result.
Modric doesn't have tinted glasses. He played with Ronaldo for several years when Ronaldo was at his best and knows Messi was a level higher.
Whether Ronaldo reacts poorly to this, is something I doubt Modric cares one iota about.
Didn't think I'd be sat here perfectly happy to see Messi win the world cup, but I am. He deserves to.
Messi has to win this world cup to cement his GOAT status. Just getting there isn't enough. We can all sit here and say it's a team sport and a lot also depend on his teammate but Messi is special enough to will his team to victory against a superior team. No one said it was going to be easy which is why being seen unanimously as the GOAT isn't easy.
Messi just need Argentina to do their job defensively, hold France for him and give him enough to produce magic to carry them to a World cup.
Messi just need Argentina to do their job defensively, hold France for him and give him enough to produce magic to carry them to a World cup.