Lionel Messi

[The holy trinity 68]

If 51 goals and 19 assists in 50 games doesn’t win you the player of the year award then you might as well give up as an attacker.

Argue against an individual award all you want because VVD won the CL. But them individual stats by Messi have been matched less than 10 times in the last 30 years in the top 3 leagues, by anyone not named Messi or C.Ronaldo.

 

[Jimmy_Bond]

Yes and no because if you have a 3-0 lead and a 4-0 lead as an example you as "the best player in the world" should take the game by the scruff of the neck and end any possibility of an embarrassment like the ones that happened. Back to back the same result and its also the body language he begins to sulk and waddle around the pitch. That to me though is not even my biggest Jibe. After losing a penalty shootout in a final for your country where you missed the penalty that causes your team to lose you then quit from your national team and say "feck it I quit". I don't care what anyone says that is weak and shows a lot about his mental fortitude. Not everyone is born with that mindset I mean look at Brady who is not even the most talented QB ever but he is undoubtedly the best QB of all time and it all stems from his mental fortitude.

Messi is fecking brilliant and a joy to watch but to me he is the second best.

Second best to whom?

 

[Oly Francis]

Yeah, he really should've swapped positions with Pique and cleared that corner from Arnold. If I'm not mistaken he also still hasn't found a cure for cancer yet, the lazy little shit. I bet he won't prevent Trump's re-election either. Such a disappointment.

Messi doesn't make the smallest effort in defense so we can only judge him by he's contribution in offense. And it's sad if you can't see a pattern for a couple of years in away games in CL (Suarez is even worst). Terrible against Liverpool, terrible against Roma the year before, terrible against juventus the year before (and against PSG, he can thank Neymar...), pretty bad against Atletico the year before... At one point some people will have to accept that Messi chokes every year in CL since their victory in 2015.

Now you can argue that he scored a lot of league goals, that's great, but he has his ENTIRE team playing for him (litteraly, Valverde doesn't have another gameplan) and at one point, you have to win beside your local championship.

 

[Pow]

Messi doesn't make the smallest effort in defense so we can only judge him by he's contribution in offense. And it's sad if you can't see a pattern for a couple of years in away games in CL (Suarez is even worst). Terrible against Liverpool, terrible against Roma the year before, terrible against juventus the year before (and against PSG, he can thank Neymar...), pretty bad against Atletico the year before... At one point some people will have to accept that Messi chokes every year in CL since their victory in 2015.

Only so much one man can do. Gave dembele a sitter to make it 4 0 and set up suarez at anfield who missed the chance to get the away goal.

 

[Pocho]

He doesn't defend?? That's the argument?? Solid.

 

[Oly Francis]

Only so much one man can do. Gave dembele a sitter to make it 4 0 and set up suarez at anfield who missed the chance to get the away goal.

I would agree had it happened once or twice. 4 years in a row is a pattern.

 

[Daysleeper]

Yes and no because if you have a 3-0 lead and a 4-0 lead as an example you as "the best player in the world" should take the game by the scruff of the neck and end any possibility of an embarrassment like the ones that happened. Back to back the same result and its also the body language he begins to sulk and waddle around the pitch. That to me though is not even my biggest Jibe. After losing a penalty shootout in a final for your country where you missed the penalty that causes your team to lose you then quit from your national team and say "feck it I quit". I don't care what anyone says that is weak and shows a lot about his mental fortitude. Not everyone is born with that mindset I mean look at Brady who is not even the most talented QB ever but he is undoubtedly the best QB of all time and it all stems from his mental fortitude.

Messi is fecking brilliant and a joy to watch but to me he is the second best.

So where was Ronaldo’s mental fortitude in those CL finals where he was a ghost outside of 2017? Juventus were heavy favourites to Ajax and still fell short. Why didn’t Ronaldo carry them then?

Messi was still the best CL player this past season, and created EVERY chance Barca had in the second leg against Liverpool.

 

[Oly Francis]

He doesn't defend?? That's the argument?? Solid.

I think you forgot to read the rest of the sentence. Some attackers can save their bad game in offense by having a great defensive contribution and a huge role in the team balance. Messi cannot.

 

[Daysleeper]

I'm not sure anyone in Argentina or in Liverpool agrees with this statement. As usual he failed to deliver in CL in an important away game, as usual he failed to deliver for his national team.

And yet he has 4 CL trophies and multiple league titles that were against another team that won CL’s

What a stupid argument coming from a PSG fan who are historical bottlers

 

[Zehner]

Messi doesn't make the smallest effort in defense so we can only judge him by he's contribution in offense. And it's sad if you can't see a pattern for a couple of years in away games in CL (Suarez is even worst). Terrible against Liverpool, terrible against Roma the year before, terrible against juventus the year before (and against PSG, he can thank Neymar...), pretty bad against Atletico the year before... At one point some people will have to accept that Messi chokes every year in CL since their victory in 2015.

Now you can argue that he scored a lot of league goals, that's great, but he has his ENTIRE team playing for him (litteraly, Valverde doesn't have another gameplan) and at one point, you have to win beside your local championship.

There isn't a single player in history who did what you expect him to do. But who cares, right? Whatever suits your argument.

 

[Daysleeper]

I think you forgot to read the rest of the sentence. Some attackers can save their bad game in offense by having a great defensive contribution and a huge role in the team balance. Messi cannot.

Neither is Ronaldo, how many phenomenal attackers were truly great defensively? Even when Messi doesn’t score or assist (like against city) he still can have a legendary game.

 

[Pocho]

I think you forgot to read the rest of the sentence. Some attackers can save their bad game in offense by having a great defensive contribution and a huge role in the team balance. Messi cannot.

If you create every goal play for your team you can defend a lot less than the others, simple.

 

[Daysleeper]

So if Barcelona just drop Messi and play on the counter attack in key CL away games, no problem?

They won't lose 4 0 to Liverpool B, 4 1 To Roma, 4 0 to psg, 3 0 to Juve?

Messi doesn't suit a team that don't want the ball. He's a liability in fact as can't run enough.

Argentina result against Mexico was interesting as well. Are they better without the big stars in the team? More balanced and more of an actual team.

Be interesting to see what Barcelona do for big away CL game, if they have big lead already like last two years.

Terrible arguments all around

Argentine beat Mexico in a FRIENDLY.

Have you seen Barca and Argentina’s record without Messi? Funny how you don’t bring that up. Here’s a clue,
Their records without him are piss poor

 

[Pocho]

Mexican players were in a Cabaret the night before thay played against Argentina, they didn't give a feck about that game.

 

[Oly Francis]

There isn't a single player in history who did what you expect him to do. But who cares, right? Whatever suits your argument.

A player that did what? Managed to score in an away game to pick up his team when it wasn't going in the right direction? I'm sure you can find one or 2 throughout history.

 

[VanKenny]

Messi's votes for The Best: 1)Mane 2)Cristiano Ronaldo 3)De Jong


Cristiano's votes for The Best: 1) De Ligt 2)De Jong 3)Mbappe




As small of a detail as this may seem, it actually tells you a lot about both of them

 

[Daysleeper]

This in fact is tedious and is the definition of murder with words, Messi will go down as the second best players of this generation and that is a great feat in general so hats off too him.

The most wrong statement in redcafe history

Compare the quotes and comments and who says them about Messi vs Ronaldo and Messi wins by a LANDSLIDE. It’s not even close. Hell, even more of ronaldo’s formerTeammates like that obey and di Maria say Messi is better. This subject was already brought up before and the quotes other footballers and managers had about Messi was significantly better than Ronaldo’s

And big whoop, Ronaldo went to the biggest team in Italy who had won the league 8 years in a row and managed to get them their lowest trophy haul in nearly a decade. He also only won la Liga a mere two times out of 9 although obviously his CL record is stellar.

You put Messi on the best team in other countries like a city or Juventus and he’d be doing the same thing if not better.

And Portugal sans Ronaldo are a better well rounded team than Argentina without Messi

Compare those respective teams without Ronaldo and Messi and you’ll see Portugal has the much better record.

Ronaldo has historically had the massive luxury of not even needing to score in a final and his teams still win. Messi barely had that.

 

[Tostao_80]

Hopefully the Ballon d'Or goes the same way. He was a level above anyone else last season.

The Cristiano fanboys on here would be in meltdown. Theyve been banging on about personal awards for the longest. Imagine if Leo makes it 6-5, as he has done with WPOTY, they will move the goalposts. Stay bitter. All hail Leo, WPOTY 2019

 

[Daysleeper]

The Cristiano fanboys on here would be in meltdown. Theyve been banging on about personal awards for the longest. Imagine if Leo makes it 6-5, as he has done with WPOTY, they will move the goalposts. Stay bitter. All hail Leo, WPOTY 2019

Ronaldo is good for his age but even he wasn’t on messi’s
Level this past season. No one was.

Liverpool were an amazing TEAM, Barca were a one man show.

 

[SCP]

Absolutely deserved.

 

[wr8_utd]

Its not based on a season its based on a calender year. Excellent up until the CL semi's, his team since has gone off the boil, lost the Copa del Rey, Messi had a pretty poor Copa (one goal - a penalty), he's been injured for the start of this season.

You can still make a case for him but I think VVD would be a reasonable winner given Liverpool's excellent form this year. He deserves it as much as Modric did IMO.

VVD probably wasn't the best defender in the CL final (Matip was) and he's been off his own very high standards since then so yeah, they've both not been themselves since the second leg at Anfield.

Messi still did score more goals and continued to be Barca's only threat even after the 2nd leg at Anfield and he's just started playing this season. Liverpool have kept lesser clean sheets than Everton and United this season?

 

[SportingCP96]

Best player last season without a doubt and deserved. VVD winning would of made as much sense as Modric last season...in other words no sense.

Congrats Messi well deserved !

 

[Casanova85]

Sanity has returned.
Best player of the year; titles are not everything. VVD was the best defender of the season, but, best player worldwide?? C'mon.

Messi had 14-15-like numbers, unfortunately, Anfield happened. But this award mirrors his 18-19 stats.

Valverde out.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Messi's votes for The Best: 1)Mane 2)Cristiano Ronaldo 3)De Jong


Cristiano's votes for The Best: 1) De Ligt 2)De Jong 3)Mbappe




As small of a detail as this may seem, it actually tells you a lot about both of them

They never vote the favorites over the years, and the favorites to win the competition this year is VVD, follow by Messi himself.

 

[Charles Miller]

Sanity has returned.
Best player of the year; titles are not everything. VVD was the best defender of the season, but, best player worldwide?? C'mon.

Messi had 14-15-like numbers, unfortunately, Anfield happened. But this award mirrors his 18-19 stats.

Valverde out.

Apparently VVD got more votes among journalists. So he could win the balon d'or in december.

 

[Son]

VVD would be a worthy winner but Messi is just the best player in history on his day. Which is most days tbh.

I’ve never seen a footballer come close to his ability. The way he creates even from deep when forgetting his goals is something football has never seen before.

He was already the best player of all time by 2012 in reality. No player has ever reached that standard as a striker in a single season. It was insane when u take into account his dribbling and passing too.

 

[kouroux]

They never vote the favorites over the years, and the favorites to win the competition this year is VVD, follow by Messi himself.

Yeah but Ronaldo took it one step further

 

[Jimmy_Bond]

Messi's votes for The Best: 1)Mane 2)Cristiano Ronaldo 3)De Jong


Cristiano's votes for The Best: 1) De Ligt 2)De Jong 3)Mbappe




As small of a detail as this may seem, it actually tells you a lot about both of them

It really does. Pathetic by Ronaldo.

 

[Mb194dc]

Terrible arguments all around

Argentine beat Mexico in a FRIENDLY.

Have you seen Barca and Argentina’s record without Messi? Funny how you don’t bring that up. Here’s a clue,
Their records without him are piss poor

Barcelona haven't played that many games without Messi, maybe 5-10 a season at most in recent years, he's averaging 50 odd games a season over last 5 years. Plus at home, at the Camp Nou, where the ball is dominated it's pretty obvious Messi is a very important player for the team.

Away from home though, against good sides in the CL, with Messi in the team, results have been shocking in recent years.

Surely you should be asking why? From a Barcelona fan perspective, what do you think the team should do different this year in the big CL away games?

Argentina haven't won anything with Messi in the team, bar an Olympics 11 years ago?

Which goes to my main point about football. It's about a tactically cohesive team of 11. Team full of stars won't necessarily get you anywhere.

 

[Zehner]

A player that did what? Managed to score in an away game to pick up his team when it wasn't going in the right direction? I'm sure you can find one or 2 throughout history.

No you can't. Nobody did it in every game he played. You're trying to put the blame for comceding four goals to the player with the least defensive responsibilities who also was the CL's gemeral and KO stage top scorer on top of having the best overall contribution of every player in the competition. You're desperate.

 

[Casanova85]

Apparently VVD got more votes among journalists. So he could win the balon d'or in december.

And it would be BS. VVD is a great defender, but he's not Beckenbauer is he?

I'd only give the balon d'or to a top class box-to-box DMF (especially if he links the defense with the CMs and AMFs + long range scoring), but never to a CB.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Yeah but Ronaldo took it one step further

Well did Messi vote for VVD then? who is this year favorite? Truth is both did it over 11 times in past decade (not voting each other), the difference is minimal. Yes it’s first time ever that Messi vote for Ronaldo, but it’s also first time ever Ronaldo won’t pose any threat in winning this. They are both just the same, they won’t vote for the biggest competitor. This year the biggest one is VVD.

 

[kouroux]

Well did Messi vote for VVD then? who is this year favorite? Truth is both did it over 11 times in past decade, the difference is minimal. Yes it’s first time ever that Messi vote for Ronaldo, but it’s also first time ever Ronaldo won’t pose any threat in winning this. They are both just the same, they won’t vote for the biggest competitor. This year the biggest one is VVD.

It still doesn't change what I said, I'm talking about the Messi-Ronaldo relationship here, VVD is irrelevant here. This vote shows the difference in mentality between the 2

 

[RedRonaldo]

It still doesn't change what I said, I'm talking about the Messi-Ronaldo relationship here, VVD is irrelevant here. This vote shows the difference in mentality between the 2

Not really. Are you saying Messi has been pathetic too over past decade for not voting Ronaldo? He is kind to Ronaldo this year as he is no longer a threat to his throne for this year award, but no so for VVD, who is his main competitor. That’s all I am saying.

 

[kouroux]

Not really. Are you saying Messi has been pathetic too over past decade for not voting Ronaldo? He is kind to Ronaldo this year as he is no longer a threat to his throne for this year award, but no so for VVD, who is his main competitor. That’s all I am saying.

You're reading way too much into it what I said, I'm saying Messi didn't mind voting for Ronaldo and Ronaldo never have and never will vote for Messi under any circumstances, whether Messi is a favorite to win it all or not. That's it, this little thing shows a difference in their mentality. Make of that what you will

 

[RedRonaldo]

You're reading way too much into it what I said, I'm saying Messi didn't mind voting for Ronaldo and Ronaldo never have and never will vote for Messi under any circumstances, whether Messi is a favorite to win it all or not. That's it, this little thing shows a difference in their mentality. Make of that what you will

Nah you are reading too much on their relationship. It always been the case of not voting the best competitor. When Ribery is one of strong favorite with real chance of winning, both Messi and Ronaldo not voting for him too. This year strong favorite is VVD and Messi, hence Messi not voting for him, neither do Ronaldo. You are just taking it too personal.

 

[kouroux]

Nah you are reading too much on their relationship. It always been the case of not voting the best competitor. When Ribery is one of strong favorite with real chance of winning, both Messi and Ronaldo not voting for him too. This year strong favorite is VVD and Messi, hence Messi not voting for him, neither do Ronaldo. You are just taking it too personal.

I'm taking it too personal now Whatever you say Sir, the facts are there, Ronaldo never have voted for Messi. This is a fact, I'll just leave it at that.

 

[RedRonaldo]

I'm taking it too personal now Whatever you say Sir, the facts are there, Ronaldo never have voted for Messi. This is a fact, I'll just leave it at that.

Messi never vote for his best competitor and that’s a fact too I’ll just leave it at that.

 

[Treble]

Respect for Messi for putting Ronnie in his top 3. Great gesture.

 

[kouroux]

Messi


Messi never vote for his best competitor and that’s a fact too I’ll just leave it at that.

Which corresponds to what I said, Ronaldo takes this stuff a step further than Messi. Glad we agree