Lionel Messi

Revan

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It's Barca fans who are intoxicated with hero-worship giving a player, however, great support against their own club.
To be fair Sults, Barca fans seems to despise the current Barca’s leadership more than United fans despised Glazers at the peak of LUHG campaign. I am sure that many fans would have sided with SAF back then if he went against Glazers and wanting to leave as a sign of protest.
 

murali_red

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"Barca behaved professionally" and now you have completely lost the plot. Barto had instructed the offices to not answer ANY phone calls, they had been ghosting Messi's camp for weeks. All season long Messi told them he wanted to leave and they ignored or brushed him aside. He was never going to terminate the contract by June 10 due to the season still being in play. You complain about throwing the team chaos, but if Messi terminated his contract in the middle of the season everything would go belly up.

Why did Madrid accept less than Ronaldo's billion euro clause? But they did because he wanted to leave so they negotiated a 100M exit with Juventus. Barca hasn't the slightest clue with any direction or vision for several seasons now. Extremely poor hirings (Abidal was a legacy hiring, never ever a good technical director, he had zero experience). The problem is Barca didn't even want to attempt to negotiate with City for any fee. And what good is 150 million? It's very good in a rebuild year. What good was 222 million for Neymar? It's good when you don't squander the money with one moronic signing after another. To even begin to attempt to say the board behaved professional is an absolute joke. And the board was always trying to spin this as Messi being difficult. They are made up of politicians after all. Another user posted a great breakdown of all the things the board have done wrong in recent years, but yes, according to you, Messi is the bad guy here. The letter Mesi's father sent was a letter based on the contract and rejecting the fact that La Liga and Barca didn't see it as valid. He didn't need to mention compensation for a trasnfer fee bcause that wasn't in the original contract. They always wanted Barca to get some sort of compensation for his transfer but when Barca won't even begin to negotiate in good faith, it was never going to happen.


To even begin to attempt to defend the board in this situation show's how little you know, with all due respect. Check this out for how appalling of a job they hve done at running things. They are literally one of the least professional boards in the world for a major football club:

https://webcache.googleusercontent....tting_the_cardinal/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca
See I am one talking about this incident, everyone knows they mismanaged by looking at their transfers. Messi need not leave by June 10, he should inform as prescribed in the contract, if verbal doesn't count it doesn't count. He can leave after the season once he informs. You are talking about millions of money, saying verbally I've been shouting is childish, he has his agents, managers, lawyers, interested clubs, someone should have seen the contract!! There is always a chance board can not honor your verbal agreement, they have also acted in good faith to allow Messi for free every season but Messi shot himself with his own clause. Why should the board accept calls, when it is clearly written on paper.
Anyone one on the Barca board will see the Messi leaving as a loss, so it's unless Messi gets the deal Barca wants they won't budge, if he didn't get an offer, stop moaning and blaming.

I'm adding the lines from Sid lowe article

He could even have said that he wanted to benefit the club, help them economically but he did not do that either: insisted he was within his rights to rescind his contract and walk for free. Only one thing had stopped him: the risk of ending up in court. Nothing else.

https://amp.theguardian.com/footbal...barcelona-things-will-never-be-the-same-again
 
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amolbhatia50k

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He's asking to leave on a free transfer because he thinks his team mates are too shit. Not exactly fighting for the colours.

They've spent a fortune, he can't question their ambition.
He isn't asking to leave on a free transfer. He had an understanding with the club which Bartemeu went back on. It was something he was given assurances on and now isnt. If he'd himself come up with some loophole nobody was aware of to get out on a free that would be different. This is clearly something they were all in on but feel differently about in the present moment.

Also I don't think he's questioning ambition but competence.

With Argentina, sure.
Absolutely
 
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amolbhatia50k

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It's Barca fans who are intoxicated with hero-worship giving a player, however, great support against their own club.
They're supporting their greatest ever over an incompetent president, Sults. I'm sure we'd support Sir Alex over an even more useless version of 1st year End Woodward. It's an easy choice between their most iconic footballer who has carried them for years, and leadership that has made a mockery of the club.

This thread appears to me to clearly be full of the the anti Barcelona /pro Ronaldo bias you find on redcafe. There's an irrational hatred which I guess stems for the losses against Barcelona and then the Messi Ronaldo rivalry where a section of United fans cared far too much for an ex player.

I watch the terrible ESPN FC diaucssions where Sid Lowe is one of the only insightful pundits and an expert on Spanish football. I believe he has his allegiances with Madrid but maybe I'm wrong. However you see the balance and how he's spoken about this whole issue and it's like comparing an adult (him) and children (redcafe) on this issue. He's speaking about people, about issues, about issues etc and here we have "traitor! Coward! Bitch!". It really is amusing to see the level of discourse. It's like a matchdagly thread FFS and we all love those :lol:
 

Sultan

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They're supporting their greatest ever over an incompetent president, Sults. I'm sure we'd support Sir Alex over an even more useless version of 1st year End Woodward. It's an easy choice between their most iconic footballer who has carried them for years, and leadership that has made a mockery of the club.

This thread appears to me to clearly be full of the the anti Barcelona /pro Ronaldo bias you find on redcafe. There's an irrational hatred which I guess stems for the losses against Barcelona and then the Messi Ronaldo rivalry where a section of United fans cared far too much for an ex player.

I watch the terrible ESPN FC diaucssions where Sid Lowe is one of the only insightful pundits and an expert on Spanish football. I believe he has his allegiances with Madrid but maybe I'm wrong. However you see the balance and how he's spoken about this whole issue and it's like comparing an adult (him) and children (redcafe) on this issue. He's speaking about people, about issues, about issues etc and here we have "traitor! Coward! Bitch!". It really is amusing to see the level of discourse. It's like a matchdagly thread FFS and we all love those :lol:
I've said my piece on the president, Amol Ji. He was voted in by club members and there is a scheduled election coming up when members will be able to oust him. United fans don't have the opportunity to rid of the clubs' owners, however much they make a mess of the club.

My stance on Messi is simple. You're a player you get paid to play and do your best on the pitch. If he wants to leave the players are always in control. The problem for Barca is him wanting to leave for free and pocket substantial/obscene amounts of money for himself rather than any transfer fee going to the club. No club or business would allow this to happen however much Messi has carried Barcelona over the years. To be fair on that point as much as Messi has carried Barcelona the club has also given him the platform to perform and a lifestyle, adulation from fans and wealth to match. Works both ways.

PS: I have never got in any debate ever about Messi v Ronaldo. Both great players in their own rights and as football fans, we've been fortunate to have been blessed with the opportunity to watch them both play.
 

Gasolin

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I am not necessarily Messi's biggest fan, but I think he's the greatest player. And seeing him in the league would have been phenomenal, even at 33. La Liga and Barcelona just didn't want to live a Neymar or Ronaldo type of loss and decided to bother Messi's camp. Which is a bit childish in my opinion. Sure the contracts says end of the season and the end of the season is "defined" as 6/10 in the contract somewhere, but this is a covid year. All dates should have had an extra buffer.

In 2018/19, the CL final was played on 6/01. And 6/10 was 10 days later.
Since the CL final was played on 8/23 this year, it would be reasonable to extend any date in the contract that was 6/10 to 9/01.

I find it strange that Messi cannot challenge that through UEFA, which has given that extension.
 

Redcy

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UEFA have nothing to do with it. They gave allowance in terms of their accepting contracts, etc, they have no legal standing. Which is what this is about, messi has a contract that states one thing, and Barca are enforcing it, as is their right. Contracts however are only a matter of two people signing an agreement, whether that agreement is legal is a lawyer/court issue.

barca clearly believe the courts would side with them, I guess messi believes it too or at least it’s 50/50. He was naive to think Otherwise.

personally I still think it might be a power play, but not sure what the direct evidence is otherwise.
 

padzilla

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Isn't it simply the case that it would take months and months for this to go through the courts and there would be zero chance of this being resolved before the new season kicks off? Why waste all that time, money and energy when he can walk away for free at the end of the coming season anyway?
 

clarkydaz

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Isn't it simply the case that it would take months and months for this to go through the courts and there would be zero chance of this being resolved before the new season kicks off? Why waste all that time, money and energy when he can walk away for free at the end of the coming season anyway?
i assumed going to court would drag across most of the season, of which he can leave at the end anyway. So why go through it with all the grief and damage it would cause
 

The Man Himself

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So, has he shown up for covid tests today before joining tomorrow or because he is Messi he is assumed immune? Also, where was his tail? Between his legs?
 

Zlaatan

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I never realised how much people disliked Messi until I read this thread.
The Barcelona board wasted their money by hiring that PR firm to talk shit about their players. They could've just waited a while and copied parts of this thread to print on a bunch of flyers instead.
 

trims

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Isn't it simply the case that it would take months and months for this to go through the courts and there would be zero chance of this being resolved before the new season kicks off? Why waste all that time, money and energy when he can walk away for free at the end of the coming season anyway?
Because we need to keep creating negative narratives about Messi. Ignore that before this announcement people were calling him a traitor and slating him for potentially taking Barca to court. We now need to change it up to him being a pussy and weak for not taking the club that gave him so much to court over a case that would be difficult to win and would take many months. Messi is just mentally weak. If this was Ronaldo his "sheer will to win" would drive him to finish law school in weeks and then win the case single handedly, ripping his suit off and screaming SIU in the middle of the court, that's why he's the GOAT.
 

VorZakone

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Such an anti climax to the saga. He really should have left this summer.
 

Baneofthegame

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Their board are shocking, whoever has been in charge of their transfers outside of FDJ have been shocking.

Really, since Neymar left, they have lost the plot.

Their top three players probably have the combined wage bills of a lot of clubs.
 

Wedge

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nope, just deluded fans who haven’t got the slightest clue what is going on. If Messi did call the shots the managers and players would be very very different. Not even saying he’d do a good job doing it, probably wouldn’t, but it sure as hell wouldn’t be what the board has done in recent years
I guess it could be down to hes the captain and they the board and manager seek his opinion, so for some they'll see that as messi influencing squad decisions etc.
 

Lennon7

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We should try get Pique if he’s leaving that shit show
 

Acheron

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I think some United fans hate Messi more than Real Madrid and Espanol Barcelona fans
In the case of Real Madrid this works great as Messi is talking shit about his board, I do think he's not exempt of criticism in this whole thing and how he has handled everything but it's clear their board straight up lied to him and they're the main culprits in Messi having so much influence and power within the club. Also is pretty likely this isn't going to be the end of this inner fight so the collapse is far from over.
 

Gandalf Greyhame

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I wonder how many years Messi has left in his tank. He would have been competing with Lewa for the Balon D'or this season, for instance, and the 'decline' is nowhere in sight. If he moves to City next season, I think he can go on for another 3-4 years of being world class, honestly.
 
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Do people really hate Messi because of those two finals? :lol:

If anything, I take solace in the fact that we were denied two CL titles by the greatest club side we've ever seen and the greatest player of all time.
Agreed. If not as if he did a Maradona or a Henry (vs Ireland). We were beaten fair and square.

It’s more the pathetic Messi vs Ronaldo thing.

I love Ronaldo, and he was sensational for the last 2/3 years at the club. I also love watching Messi.

I don’t understand why people can’t watch both, and love watching both.
 

Acheron

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Yeah, it's due to a lingering attachment to Ronaldo and those two finals.
Ronaldo still gets more irrational hate though but now all the attention is on Messi. This year just keeps getting crazier. :lol:
 

kouroux

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I wonder how many years Messi has left in his tank. He would have been competing with Lewa for the Balon D'or this season, for instance, and the 'decline' is nowhere in sight. If he moves to City next season, I think he can go on for another 3-4 years of being world class, honestly.
He's been in decline for a while but his top level was so ridiculious high that his "ok" level is still easily among the best in the world.
 

Adisa

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The lingering Ronaldo attachment that you right mention, should never affect people like that
Very bizarre. The man virtually said we were enslaving him.
I am seeing posts calling Messi a disgrace...I don't get it.
 

LucasXXII

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I never realised how much people disliked Messi until I read this thread.
I think it's similar to why lots of people prefer Batman to Superman or Iron Man to Captain America. Messi has a cookie-cutter public personality that tries to do no wrong and has no edge to it - that's enough to make a lot of people dislike him.

In most mainstream TV shows nowadays the main protagonists tend to have many flaws (like someone you'd met in real life often does) and are quite often antagonistic and combative. In contrast, the public personality of Messi (or shall I say lack thereof) can often be seen as fake and pretentious these days.

The dynamics between opinions on Messi and Ronaldo is also far from being just about an ex-United star player and someone who led the team that defeated United twice in a UCL final. The key point is that people often root for underdogs. A lot would say that Ronaldo is the underdog between the two, because football fans traditionally value passing and dribbling brilliance so much, and for this reason Ronaldo will never be as appreciated as Messi from a traditional viewpoint. The fact that Ronaldo completely revamped his way of playing and astonishingly clawed back a 1-4 deficit in Ballon d'or count is enough for his fans to view him as the greatest of all time, and desparately root for his continued success so that he can finish what he started and decidedly surpass Messi.

Yet, no matter what Ronaldo has and will accomplish, it may still not be enough to persuade the football traditionalists, simply because Messi is just too good on the ball for their opinion to be swayed. Some may also view Messi as the underdog due to his past problem with body height.
 

Henandez14

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That's just stupid though, he didn't cheat in those finals, he was just better. You can hate him for other reasons but not those
Stupid? It’s a game of emotion. All the fun would be sucked out if the fans were rational or without sentiment. 22 players kicking around a ball is arguably stupid anyway...
 

kouroux

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Stupid? It’s a game of emotion. All the fun would be sucked out if the fans were rational or without sentiment. 22 players kicking around a ball is arguably stupid anyway...
Emotion is understandable a few hours/days/weeks after those finals but not years. People have grown since then, if the same crazy bitterness is still there then something is wrong with the fans in question. We're talking about a decade worth of hatred for a man who rightly bested us. It makes no sense
 

Suedesi

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Without Maradona, Napoli wouldn't have won the Serie A and Argentina wouldn't have won the WC. You know, that beautiful cup that Messi will most probably never lift.



We would have lost against Barcelona in 2008 and 2011 with or without Messi. They were that good.
Yeah, and without Preben Elkjær Verona would not have won the scudetto in 85, doesn’t mean he’s a goat. Lots of “small” teams won the title then, stop buying the narrative.
 

devilish

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Yeah, and without Preben Elkjær Verona would not have won the scudetto in 85, doesn’t mean he’s a goat. Lots of “small” teams won the title then, stop buying the narrative.
As said you're comparing someone who was only great with Barcelona with someone who won the shit with both Argentina and Napoli who had a squad that was far less then perfect + it was playing in a league that wasn't a two horse race.
 

GiddyUp

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I think some United fans hate Messi more than Real Madrid and Espanol Barcelona fans
So what? He's not our player and he d hes like a spoiled little prick.
Why, on a Manchester United fan forum are United fans moaning because Messi's not getting his arse sniffed?
 

kouroux

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So what? He's not our player and he d hes like a spoiled little prick.
Why, on a Manchester United fan forum are United fans moaning because Messi's not getting his arse sniffed?
Bipolar much :houllier::lol: ? Who said anything about "getting his arse sniffed" ? You know there also exists a middle ground I hope.
 

Suedesi

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As said you're comparing someone who was only great with Barcelona with someone who won the shit with both Argentina and Napoli who had a squad that was far less then perfect + it was playing in a league that wasn't a two horse race.
My point is Diego winning two scudettos with Napoli was not by any means an impossible task. Preben Elkjær won the scudetto with Hellas Verona in 1985, so Diego winning with Napoli 2 years later was not the mythical thing people make it out to be. It was an amazing achievement, but it has been overblown. Napoli didn't establish a dynasty, in fact they choked the following season when they were so far ahead of Milan but couldn't keep the pace and lost their last three matches including the decisive match against Milan in San Paolo. The regained the scudetto two years later, just - they still needed FIGC awarding them two points when in Bergamo, an Atalanta fan threw a coin at Alemao's head - which was just enough to regain the title from AC Milan.

Anyways, I am a big of Diego but he had very high highs and some very low lows. Messi has been more consistent in his career overall.
 

devilish

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My point is Diego winning two scudettos with Napoli was not by any means an impossible task. Preben Elkjær won the scudetto with Hellas Verona in 1985, so Diego winning with Napoli 2 years later was not the mythical thing people make it out to be. It was an amazing achievement, but it has been overblown. Napoli didn't establish a dynasty, in fact they choked the following season when they were so far ahead of Milan but couldn't keep the pace and lost their last three matches including the decisive match against Milan in San Paolo. The regained the scudetto two years later, just - they still needed FIGC awarding them two points when in Bergamo, an Atalanta fan threw a coin at Alemao's head - which was just enough to regain the title from AC Milan.

Anyways, I am a big of Diego but he had very high highs and some very low lows. Messi has been more consistent in his career overall.
Napoli won the Serie A twice in their history. They did that with Maradona. Prior to Maradona, Napoli ended up 11th place, 1 point away from the relegation zone. Let that sink in.
 

Suedesi

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Napoli won the Serie A twice in their history. They did that with Maradona. Prior to Maradona, Napoli ended up 11th place, 1 point away from the relegation zone. Let that sink in.
So? In 81 they finished third, and two years later they flirted with relegation. Maradona was signed in 84 and the team was revamped following that purchase. Your explanations are too simplistic.
 

Revaulx

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So what? He's not our player and he d hes like a spoiled little prick.
Why, on a Manchester United fan forum are United fans moaning because Messi's not getting his arse sniffed?
Well I certainly don’t hate him. I think (a) he’s a great player and (b) it’s beyond argument that Barcelona has been abominably run over the past few years.

The fact (as far as I’m aware) that he only went public with his criticisms, however legitimate, when his past-it mate was told he was being let go hardly shows him to be some sort of crusading white knight. And even if it did, I can’t see why United fans should get so emotionally involved.

Mind you, Ronaldo fanboys coming along and labelling him a “coward” based on absolutely nothing are every bit as annoying.