The majority of the criticism here seem to be subjective, appart from the third goal. Its the fear he has been targeted and this creates problems for the team, not for himself necessarily. I don't know if this perception is correct though.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Clean sheets
- 20
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 10
- Status
Move him to DM and start Varane back there.
It puzzles me that the manager looked at the squad and decided Varane was the weakness and that the solution would be his second choice Ajax CB
I think he was quite solid, could have done better for the 3rd goal but didn't see it as a height issue, more a slip/collective failure. Probably not wise to play him with Fred/Eriksen midfield though, which both is incredibly porous and can't win headers or second balls. Ultimately it comes down to systemic failure not something that is solely on Martinez. Hence why all the players we bring in look dross. Put this guy in Arsenal, City or Pool and he looks great. Because they dominate possession and when they lose it, work as a team to win the second ball.
In any sane team, it would be fine for them to be predictably pinging balls at Martinez because there would be a powerful DM there to either cover or sweep up, plus he wins a fair share of them himself.
He is one of the few players in this team that still has fight in him, and a winners mentality. It's kneejerk to get rid so early. Pair him with Varane and Malacia and he'll do better. Despite the issues with Malacia's height too, which again need to be covered by a decent DM.
In any sane team, it would be fine for them to be predictably pinging balls at Martinez because there would be a powerful DM there to either cover or sweep up, plus he wins a fair share of them himself.
He is one of the few players in this team that still has fight in him, and a winners mentality. It's kneejerk to get rid so early. Pair him with Varane and Malacia and he'll do better. Despite the issues with Malacia's height too, which again need to be covered by a decent DM.
If you don't see a problem with Martinez so far then let's agree to disagree and leave it.
Agreed, thats the best choice. Whether ETH sees it that way remains to be seen. Martinez will be fine. Its ETH fault for dropping him in the deep end and not letting him acclimatise to PL football.
Also ETH made a fundamental error yesterday with his selection of the team and lack of height. Its a baptism of fire for him so far also.
So far I think hes done ok, hes a bit off the pace and needs to adjust to the PL. I think its entirely normal.
A lot of confirmation bias at the moment
I feel sorry for him. The narrative has been set and whether it's true or not he'll be one of the first to get it in the neck if things go wrong for us.
The only goal where Martinez's height/physicality was an issue was the 3rd goal, yet I've seen plenty go on like he's cost us the game.
We need a commanding goalkeeper and a defensive midfielder in before we can fully assess him. A better right back too. These defenders don't stand a chance with the fannies they have around them. It was the same last season.
The only goal where Martinez's height/physicality was an issue was the 3rd goal, yet I've seen plenty go on like he's cost us the game.
We need a commanding goalkeeper and a defensive midfielder in before we can fully assess him. A better right back too. These defenders don't stand a chance with the fannies they have around them. It was the same last season.
Well how many duels did he win because he played for 45 minutes before getting subbed in one of the worst half’s in our history. Just like all 11 players he was fecking rubbish.
It could have been an off day, I’m not here saying he’s a flop but you’re scrapping the barrel trying to find positives out of that display yesterday.
no he didn't
you need to stop drinking while watching games. he lost 1 duel all half which was the goal, that's barely repeatedly is it?
I don’t think the idea with targeting him with long balls is to score direct goals. It’s an easy way to play through/over our press and establish the game on our defending half. If Brentford don’t win the first ball they win the second. Or get a throw in.
Even when they lose the ball, they apply pressure to our back line and create chances from that.
It will be an absolute indictment of Manager and Club if we start playing him at DM. Not happening.
He’s literally the only indication of the manager being backed by the club. If he’s what ETH wanted, he needs more players that facilitate him at CB.
He’s literally the only indication of the manager being backed by the club. If he’s what ETH wanted, he needs more players that facilitate him at CB.
Has to get better, team has to he's a footballing CB the Premier league is the toughest he will have to learn quick. Vidic and Evra had to learn quick can this guy learn he can, but there are others there who will drag him down to there level.
But he did win the ball and second ball in many occasions. So the point stands, the biggest issue on that side was actually Shaw and to an extent Fred
Folk blaming Maguire for any probs Martinez has?
Guys you can stick whoever you like next to him. He'll still be 5ft 9 and 11 stone.
Guys you can stick whoever you like next to him. He'll still be 5ft 9 and 11 stone.
It would be which is why it's unlikely to happen. But if we changed manager tomorrow for anyone else in the PL I doubt any would play him CB.
Apart from maybe the mee goal he was the only defender holding his own. Think its clear to those who aren't super reactionary that he will be part of the eventual solution for implementing ten hags tactics.
He's currently won zero aerial duels this season.no he didn't
he lost 1 duel all half which was the goal, that's barely repeatedly is it?
By comparison, Dalot and Maguire have won 5 each, McT 4...
Obviously there are mitigating factors... But we can't pretend he's been a dominant in the air so far or anything.
Yesterday our single biggest problem in defence (individual errors aside) was our inability to play out from the back and beat the opposition press. Given that, I'm not sure why it would puzzle you that ETH brought in Martinez, who is now the best of our CBs in that regard. Yesterday was proof that ETH was correct when he identified that as a key weakness given that even with that upgrade it is still killing us.
Because unfortunately Martinez alone isn't enough to fix that area of our game. Particularly when he's still adapting to the league. The goalkeeper, midfielders and his fellow defenders need to step it up too. Hell, even adding the target man CF ETH did in Ajax would help, giving us another out-ball.
Do you mean midgetgating factors ?
If the club changes managers shortly after giving him £50m+ for a very specific skill set and style, all senior management should resign.
Most do not play the system Ten hag wants so I dont think you're making much of a point there.
I agree; I don't really blame him for the third goal being 3-5 inches taller wouldnt have helped
They don't play short CBs for a reason.
Do you think Ten Hag brought him because hes short?
Play him in defensive midfield he'll do well there. Having small CB's in the EPL is taking the piss.
Martinez? Not according to Fbref.
As per them he competed for 1 aerial duel yesterday and 1 aerial duel against Brighton, winning both.
Now obviously that's a flawed stats as there are other incidents involving aerial ability that don't get included, but still.
Seems to on here with some of the Cafs certified football experts
According to the Premier League:
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/aerial_won
Guess it depends on how they measure what consits of a duel.
Good job he only cost 55m to do a job at CB isn’t it.
The Dutch league is so fecking bad. Lindelof would be without a doubt one of the best CB’s in that league and look world class.
I know why he's bought him but we're miles away from a team where we gain from his quality in possession more than we lose from his weaknesses.
Well that is clearly not true if you even watch 5 minutes of the games. I can distinctly remember him beating both Toney and Mbuemo in the air yesterday.
That side mauled nobody. Think you forget how wack we were under Van Gaal.
Thats not his fault. If Maguire gives suicidal passes, DDG makes clangers, or Dalot goes out hacking the opposition to give away dangerous free kicks (which led to the corner of their goal), that tells me there are 100 problems in the team before we look at Martinez.
We needed a left footer for Ten Hags system and Martinez makes up for his height in many other facets. Dont buy the Gary Neville dogshite and shit British punditry who find it easy to say 5'9 that must be the problem. fecking let in 3 other goals that had feck all to do with him.
The highest praise possible.
Their manager literally came out and said they targeted him as their out ball. Clearly it worked.
There are loads of other problems but instead of fixing them with recruitment in the summer so far, he's just added an extra one.
It might well work out once we get a functioning midfield defensively, better full backs and binning De Gea, but short term it's going to be painful while we don't have those things.
He won some balls absolutely, but the point is that it does not necessarily translate to winning back possession. There were times when this was the easy way for Brentford to move the ball from their goalie /backline in to our half.
Their manager said a lot of things beyond that. He said it was the mistakes by the goalkeeper that let them in the game in the end.
And by the way, their breakthrough into the game had feck all to do with him. Nor did the second goal. The third goal was a bundle in the box.
It's not as simple as who made the mistakes that caused the goals. How did the goals come about? How did they move up field so that we're under pressure in our own half?
They weren't beating our press with intricate play at the back, they were launching long balls up field, the type they wouldn't bother with if they didn't think they had a good chance of winning them. That's a problem.
Exactly. Yes, he was beaten for the setpiece goal but the how the feck did it even reach there ?
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