He was two times better than both Shaw and Maguire. ETH took him off to get him out of this shit show, after 20 minutes of this shit show he looked absolutely broken.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Clean sheets
- 20
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 10
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I don't agree. In my opinion Maguire and Lindelof aren't half the player Martinez is. They are just taller. Lindelof is not excellent on the ball at all. He may look excellent on the ball next to Maguire, but that's hardly an accomplishment. Maguire and Lindelof are only better players if you just compare them on defending set pieces. Sure, in that department they'll be better just because height in that department surely is a factor. However, there's much more to football than defending set pieces. You should prevent having to defend them in the first place.
You are right United needed a DM, but United also needed a CB. Varane and Bailly were United's only 2 proper CB's and they are always injured. A team is built from the back and United didn't have any decent defenders that aren't injured every other week. I do think United overpaid for Martinez, but in the end United signed Ten Hag as a coach. You can't sign Ten Hag as a coach and then expect that he will play Mourinho-ball. He's going to implement his philosophy and get players that suit that philosophy. That's also why he was signed by the club. Martinez is a good player in his philosophy, a much better one than Maguire or Lindelof. He has shown at Ajax that he can handle a high level. He's been doing fine in CL, against better teams than Brighton or Brentford. He can't however do it on his own.
I’m sure he’s probably a decent player and good on the ball etc but just seems like needlessly making life harder for yourself dropping 50m on this guy rather than just going with normal size centre backs, makes him inevitably another for the dross pile if it ends bad with ETH.
I saw the first half only and aside from the goal where it seems he had to backtrack too much to challenge the man I thought he was clearly our best defender. Not sure why people are going so overboard with him.
It’s going to be a long time before United can get 60+% possession and he’ll get broken playing CB in a back 4 in the meantime. I think he’s probably got to play MF with Rabiot and another either side of him if he’s not going to be another waste of money. That would mean you stop playing Bruno as a 10 and go to a 4-3-3. Bruno is a liability now, anyway and just brings pressure onto MF and DF.
Hmm maybe we agree to disagree. Lindelof is an excellent passer of the ball, Maguire prior to last season (where a lot of English players got little rest and looked terrible post Euro final) looked great for us in 2020/2021.
Lisandro might have done okay in the CL, but what does that entail? 2 group stage exists and a R16 exit? 6 games a season against Besiktas, Sporting and a really weak Dortmund side. The season prior you went out to Midgyland, Atlanta and Liverpool, and before that out to Lille, Valencia and Chelsea.
The point is whilst Brighton and Brentford aren't CL calibre teams, the league is packed with similar teams that attack with pace and technical forwards that Lisandro won't be used to. Even mid table teams like Palace have forwards like Zaha and Eze who could play in the CL. I said that signing Lisandro would do nothing and he'd be repeatedly exposed - Varane doesn't suddenly go from being very good for France and Real to being exposed for United last season - it's the lack of a DM and a midfield that's the issue. As such the signing of Lisandro really is just a waste of £50m for us.
So your immediate reaction is that Martinez sucks while the whole team fumbles?'
Was i that one tracccked mind when Evra signed? If so slap me.
He is not ready for PL yet. Need to give him some time to adapt.
I really hate this forum mentality that we have to pick who to blame and by extension absolve others of criticism.
I very much doubt anyone questioning Martinez has anything positive to say about Maguire Dalot and Shaw. All 3 of them are dreadful and I think at this point everyone is bored of pointing out how dreadful they are. But this is the Martinez thread. When you spend £50m on a centre back and people are questioning his physicality all summer and immediately he starts getting targeted by the opposition then questions have to be asked.
"Well Maguire is worse" is not really a defence of a player.
Good thing that wasn't my defence. Like I said I saw the first half and the one goal aside (which I'll have to see again as it was a mess in terms of marking at the back post) I thought he played well attacking the ball when needed and controlling the attackers. People whinging about him all summer is not really relevant to the players performances. He'll need time and everyone knows that.
The club spent 57 million on him with the expectation that he improve the defense. Maguire being crap doesn’t excuse Martinez for his poor play too.
I’m not going to give up on him, but his height and lack of pace were red flags, and they seem to be legitimate issues that he will need to overcome.
the issues at the club go way, way beyond Martinez and ETH, but it shouldn’t be too much to ask for our new signings, especially our most expensive one, to at least be some of our better players, even if the team isn’t functioning well. Martinez being a weak link is the type of confidence-shaking start that ETH really needed to avoid.
People aren't really questioning him as much as they are slating him and saying he was awful, which just really isn't true.
Fair enough.
For me, I was against the signing because I thought he didn't have the physical attributes to be an elite centre back in this team. If I see signs that those concerns are true then we have to be able to voice those on a discussion forum.
That may yet be true, but it seems like people are trying to just will it so at the moment, anything that happens anywhere near to him on the pitch is somehow related to him not being 6'4".
Don't forget what happened with Evra and his lack of physicality when he first joined. Quality players find a way of adjusting. Granted it was a bad game compounded by the whole team playing badly but he will get better as he settles in and gets on the weights.
Oh what would I give to have a Vidic in our team right now. Poeple talk about Keane a lot but Vidic would whip this lot into shape as well. Do Serbia have any upcoming tough feckers? We can do with a few of them.
No, you have forgotten that teams would play long balls towards Evra at the start of his United career and it would be a tactic that paid off. Heinze's leaping and heading was his advantage and why he would still be an option. Evra developed his game to deal with the ball in the air well and then there was never any reason for Heinze to play. He made Heinze's strength one of his and that was the end of Heinze's chances of starting leftback.
You mean Ben Mee? Well, he slipped.
I personally will never really blame central defenders until De Gea gets replaced.
We don’t have a goalkeeper that is able to help at corners like yesterday as the ball goes/pingsfrom back of goal to the front.
We don’t have a goalkeeper that is able to help at corners like yesterday as the ball goes/pingsfrom back of goal to the front.
I'd imagine it will be quite difficult for ETH to admit making a mistake with this guy. He was after all supposed to be essential for ETH style of play.
Looks like a rookie mistake going for this guy. Very naive from ETH who seems to think EPL is just another league.
Looks like a rookie mistake going for this guy. Very naive from ETH who seems to think EPL is just another league.
Too early to write him off but the early signs are ominous indeed. I'm not a fan of shoehorning players into new positions, but can't help thinking this guy might be better as a defensive midfielder, which in itself would be ridiculous because for 50 million (or whatever we paid,) we probably could've found a better DM.
He was actually a DM shoehorning into a CB at Ajax.
Really? So maybe he could be an option at DM for us. I mean it really can't be worse than Fred/McTominay/Eriksen in that position.
Yes he was and even played as a DM in his first season there. Then ETH thought he's too slow for a DM then converted him to a CB. Same here I also think it'd be better to try him at DM. Yeah can't be worse than our current options.
Still too early to write him off, but yes, there are cause for concerns. Maybe some time away from the spotlight will help him as we don't want his confidence to fall even further.
Quite inaccurate. He was a CB when Ajax bought him. He was converted to DM at Ajax for a brief spell by EtH.
He was a bit of a naive or misplaced signing. Money needed to spent elsewhere and because of all the issues we have he’s not going to get much practice doing what he’s good at but plenty spent (like yesterday) on what he isn’t.
Also any new signing is going to struggle, we’re a shambles.
Also any new signing is going to struggle, we’re a shambles.
Yeah I've checked it again and you're right.
Ole must have been better than people gave him credit for then as there's no way ETH is finishing 3rd or 2nd.
Pau Torres 
The decision makers need sacking by September
The decision makers need sacking by September
No need to go in on him, give him some time. I would like to see him getting paired with Varane.
Need time to adapt. He will be dropped next game, I can feel it
It won't change the result though, unfortunately.
It won't change the result though, unfortunately.
I don't think he's a bad player but his height is definitely a liability in the PL. It's not that the striker always wins headers against him, in fact I don't think that happened once during the time he was on.
But because he's so short, he can't clear the ball (i.e head it away) so it ends up being a tussle for that 2nd ball, and guess what, that's exactly what the opposition want. Sure there are times we may even clear that 2nd ball, but keep sending the ball long towards Martinez' direction and sooner or later you will win the 2nd ball and have a chance to attack our goal.
With a defense that was already leaking goals, this signing just keeps inviting more pressure. So far, a poor and totally needless signing.
But because he's so short, he can't clear the ball (i.e head it away) so it ends up being a tussle for that 2nd ball, and guess what, that's exactly what the opposition want. Sure there are times we may even clear that 2nd ball, but keep sending the ball long towards Martinez' direction and sooner or later you will win the 2nd ball and have a chance to attack our goal.
With a defense that was already leaking goals, this signing just keeps inviting more pressure. So far, a poor and totally needless signing.
Utd had 63% possession against Brighton and 67% against Brentford.
Beyond all the physical stuff it will be up to Martinez to prove that he can make an impact defensively, because while quality on the ball is certainly preferable, it can not come at the expense of defensive ability.
Thought he did well amongst our back four. I hope he gets more chances hopefully with Varane next to him.
It’s a massive step up for him. That takes time and patience.
Yes, and Pau Torres was cheaper.
Bullies. They should pick on someone their own size.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...rgeting-manchester-united-defender-in-4-0-win
https://www.skysports.com/football/...rgeting-manchester-united-defender-in-4-0-win
The lack of any "comedy" video compilations showing the small man being beaten by all the big hard men is surprising. Almost like it didn't happen.
British media is already chewing him up. Feel sorry for him.
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