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Lisandro Martinez image 6

Lisandro Martinez Argentina flag

2023-24 Performances


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5.7 Season Average Rating
Appearances
12
Clean sheets
2
Goals
0
Assists
1
Yellow cards
4

criticalanalysis

Full Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
6,358
AWB has our most interceptions through reading the game and positioning himself to do so. He's a very aggressive player. Equally making a lot of tackles requires reading whats going to happen else you'll foul the player. So this makes no sense whatsoever. Being aggressive and trying to win the ball has no bearing on whether a player who is strong with positioning and reading the game. In fact AWB's tackling success relies a lot on positioning himself correctly to make an opponent try to take him on, reading that and putting his foot in to win the ball.
Agree. It's such a simplistic take but let's be honest is it a surprise who said it? The constant petty jabs and lowering of Martinez's qualities since last year is something else. Indirectly trying to say Martinez is aggressive only and doesn't read the game or has great positioning.

With that logic, some players are always available and have lower risk of injury because their strength is brilliantly reading the game to avoid contact, tackling or getting involved. I'm definitely not talking about Lindelof btw. No correlation there.
 

Musclehead

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 24, 2023
Messages
44
Agree. It's such a simplistic take but let's be honest is it a surprise who said it? The constant petty jabs and lowering of Martinez's qualities since last year is something else. Indirectly trying to say Martinez is aggressive only and doesn't read the game or has great positioning.

With that logic, some players are always available and have lower risk of injury because their strength is brilliantly reading the game to avoid contact, tackling or getting involved. I'm definitely not talking about Lindelof btw. No correlation there.
My take on both, AWB is not what you would like on the ball handling, but one of the best defenders in the league. Rarely does anyone get around him and his slide tackle technique is better than pretty much anyone. Martinez is a quality center back. His stature is a little limiting however he has a huge heart, wants to win and his ball possession is incredible. Whoever watches games and think in some way these players are part of the problem, think again. This squad has too many passengers and those passengers start most games. How ETH doesn't see this week in and week out, and/or hasn't been able to improve is anyone's guess, but shows ETH perhaps is not the manager for this team.
 

Pscholes18

Full Member
Joined
Jul 21, 1999
Messages
8,366
Location
Fresno, CA
One of the fan YT channels apparently has a "source" and said that Martinez wasn't following the medical teams advice on recovery and was going on his own ideas and may or may of not been told not to leave for Argentina but did anyways.
 

A-man

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
6,359
AWB has our most interceptions through reading the game and positioning himself to do so. He's a very aggressive player. Equally making a lot of tackles requires reading whats going to happen else you'll foul the player. So this makes no sense whatsoever. Being aggressive and trying to win the ball has no bearing on whether a player who is strong with positioning and reading the game. In fact AWB's tackling success relies a lot on positioning himself correctly to make an opponent try to take him on, reading that and putting his foot in to win the ball.
It’s not really that controversial to believe that someone who plays aggressively also has a higher risk of impact injuries. Not always true of course. We have Maguire who plays fairly aggressive and has been relatively free from injuries and we have Varane who plays less aggressive and depend more on other qualities, and he has one of our most injured players. He however depends on other physical attributes such as speed.

Of course some players can have several attributes and be both aggressive and good at positioning as example, that goes without saying. AWB is however not an example of that. His positioning is often poor and he is easily dragged out his position. Having good tackling skills to be able to position oneself for a tackle is not “good positioning”.

(I’m not saying that aggression for sure is the reason why Martinez is injured all the time. Could be he’s extra injury prone, bad luck or any other reason)
 
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NinjaZombie

Punched the air when Liverpool beat City
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
10,198
My take on both, AWB is not what you would like on the ball handling, but one of the best defenders in the league. Rarely does anyone get around him and his slide tackle technique is better than pretty much anyone. Martinez is a quality center back. His stature is a little limiting however he has a huge heart, wants to win and his ball possession is incredible. Whoever watches games and think in some way these players are part of the problem, think again. This squad has too many passengers and those passengers start most games. How ETH doesn't see this week in and week out, and/or hasn't been able to improve is anyone's guess, but shows ETH perhaps is not the manager for this team.
On the ball. Off the ball, he's cost us a lot of times.
 

sugar_kane

Full Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
3,539
One of the fan YT channels apparently has a "source" and said that Martinez wasn't following the medical teams advice on recovery and was going on his own ideas and may or may of not been told not to leave for Argentina but did anyways.
Sounds made up but whatever the story is there, the club shouldn't have allowed it.

Letting him fly halfway across the world beyond the scrutiny of our medical staff when still recovering is far more unforgiveable than bringing him on for the last 20 minutes of a game (if he wasn't ready to make a cameo in case of an emergency ie. Lindelof getting injured, he shouldn't have been on the bench in the first place)
 

DomesticTadpole

Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.
Joined
Jun 4, 2011
Messages
101,629
Location
Barrow In Furness
Sounds made up but whatever the story is there, the club shouldn't have allowed it.

Letting him fly halfway across the world beyond the scrutiny of our medical staff when still recovering is far more unforgiveable than bringing him on for the last 20 minutes of a game (if he wasn't ready to make a cameo in case of an emergency ie. Lindelof getting injured, he shouldn't have been on the bench in the first place)
Isn't this been a problem for years, that the people at the club have not put their foot down with regards to certain situations. To be fair ETH has tried to assert some authority, but some of these players have been far too used to doing just as they like.
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
32,004
One of the fan YT channels apparently has a "source" and said that Martinez wasn't following the medical teams advice on recovery and was going on his own ideas and may or may of not been told not to leave for Argentina but did anyways.
Stopped reading here.
 

Bondi77

Full Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
7,379
One of the fan YT channels apparently has a "source" and said that Martinez wasn't following the medical teams advice on recovery and was going on his own ideas and may or may of not been told not to leave for Argentina but did anyways.
Next time you watch it just check if you can find the source and see if it is worth posting.
 

Semper Fudge

Apt Tagline
Joined
May 3, 2021
Messages
3,849
One of the fan YT channels apparently has a "source" and said that Martinez wasn't following the medical teams advice on recovery and was going on his own ideas and may or may of not been told not to leave for Argentina but did anyways.
Famously reliable outlets.
 

Herschel Krustofsky

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I will agree on the ball, but really can't bring to mind when it hurt off the ball? 1 v 1 he is rarely beat. Dalot on the other hand?
I think he meant the difference between 1v1 and when he isn’t defending 1v1 - eg wandering around aimlessly, letting someone on the other side of the pitch waltz through the offside trap.

The way it was worded didn’t make sense to me otherwise?
 

NinjaZombie

Punched the air when Liverpool beat City
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
10,198
I will agree on the ball, but really can't bring to mind when it hurt off the ball? 1 v 1 he is rarely beat. Dalot on the other hand?
I think he meant the difference between 1v1 and when he isn’t defending 1v1 - eg wandering around aimlessly, letting someone on the other side of the pitch waltz through the offside trap.

The way it was worded didn’t make sense to me otherwise?
Yeah what I meant was he is good one-on-one but when his positioning, concentration and reading of the game when he needs to defend spaces is abysmal. The latest example was Brentford's equaliser in that last game.
 

Andycoleno9

matchday malcontent
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
29,236
Location
Croatia
Last year he played 3/4 of season and got injured on crucial part of the season. This season he missed basically all.
He was also part of defence when biggest trashings of the season happened (Pool, Brentford and City).

Yeah, i wouldn't call him as great signing.
 
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Murder on Zidane's Floor

You'd better not kill Giroud
Joined
Jun 11, 2015
Messages
29,025
Last year he played 3/4 of season and got injured on crucial part of the season. This season he missed basically all.
He was also part of defence when biggest trashing of the season happened (Pool, Brentford and City).

Yeah, i wouldn't call him as great signing.
Agree, he's all bark, no bite
 

Fobal

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Mar 13, 2023
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Liverpool
Last year he played 3/4 of season and got injured on crucial part of the season. This season he missed basically all.
He was also part of defence when biggest trashing of the season happened (Pool, Brentford and City).

Yeah, i wouldn't call him as great signing.
Man, injuries have hampered what could have been the best signing ETH did and God knows I didn't want him to go to United with this current line up, yet he suprised me of how he really fast adapt and become a leader on the pitch.

I know I fecking like the dude and I'll support him from not precisly the most objective point of view, mainly because I trully want him fit to replace Otamendi in the NT, so i'm all for him. In my defense, this desire comes from watching him play since day one of his carreer and digging his talent and character.
I admitt that, but come on, in the way he played in such a chaotic side not only in the last line but with the type and style of players in mid nowadays United has, plus the way Man Utd losts the ball uprfront, he was playing really really great.
You are pushing the overrated tag or non good enough tag on Licha too harsh, while also thinking that Dalot is underrated, to each to it's own but let's just hope he has a more functional side in the future and an injury free season instead of trying to push an agenda among one of the few that showed the level of talent required for sucha Top club.
 

Andycoleno9

matchday malcontent
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Mar 4, 2017
Messages
29,236
Location
Croatia
Man, injuries have hampered what could have been the best signing ETH did and God knows I didn't want him to go to United with this current line up, yet he suprised me of how he really fast adapt and become a leader on the pitch.

I know I fecking like the dude and I'll support him from not precisly the most objective point of view, mainly because I trully want him fit to replace Otamendi in the NT, so i'm all for him. In my defense, this desire comes from watching him play since day one of his carreer and digging his talent and character.
I admitt that, but come on, in the way he played in such a chaotic side not only in the last line but with the type and style of players in mid nowadays United has, plus the way Man Utd losts the ball uprfront, he was playing really really great.
You are pushing the overrated tag or non good enough tag on Licha too harsh, while also thinking that Dalot is underrated, to each to it's own but let's just hope he has a more functional side in the future and an injury free season instead of trying to push an agenda among one of the few that showed the level of talent required for sucha Top club.
I clearly said earlier that he is good enough for United. But i don't rate him as a top class.
And as a signing; he missed more games than he played for us so far. I can't say that he is "great signing" so far, can i?
I do hope that this season is just one big bad luck for him regarding injuries. Lets see what will happen next year.
 

The Oracle

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Jun 22, 2020
Messages
1,115
Genuine question...

Are we missing a trick with this guy?

It's my opinion that his small height is a hindrance to the team in the Premier League, especially with him being a centre-back.

He is really good on the ball though, he's also tenacious, and his work rate is excellent.

So why don't we look into developing him into a number 6 defensive midfielder, to sit in front of the back four to offer us some protection, and to stop our midfield being bypassed game after game?
Think about it, he could be that defensive midfielder we've been crying out for, and because he's so good with the ball at his feet, he can also be the player to bring the ball forward and transition our play from defence into attack.

Martínez's height means I would much prefer to have the likes of Maguire and Varane at centre-back because of their excellent aerial ability - even if Maguire's lack of pace means we are unable to play a high line.

What do you think, do we actually already have the defensive midfielder that we have been longing for, for so long in Martínez?
 

E-mal

Full Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2017
Messages
3,959
Genuine question...

Are we missing a trick with this guy?

It's my opinion that his small height is a hindrance to the team in the Premier League, especially with him being a centre-back.

He is really good on the ball though, he's also tenacious, and his work rate is excellent.

So why don't we look into developing him into a number 6 defensive midfielder, to sit in front of the back four to offer us some protection, and to stop our midfield being bypassed game after game?
Think about it, he could be that defensive midfielder we've been crying out for, and because he's so good with the ball at his feet, he can also be the player to bring the ball forward and transition our play from defence into attack.

Martínez's height means I would much prefer to have the likes of Maguire and Varane at centre-back because of their excellent aerial ability - even if Maguire's lack of pace means we are unable to play a high line.

What do you think, do we actually already have the defensive midfielder that we have been longing for, for so long in Martínez?
He doesn’t have the instinct or skills of a midfielder. Doesn’t scan like a MF
 

Licha-Vidic

Last Man Standing 2 finalist 2023/24
Joined
Jan 9, 2023
Messages
1,383
Genuine question...

Are we missing a trick with this guy?

It's my opinion that his small height is a hindrance to the team in the Premier League, especially with him being a centre-back.

He is really good on the ball though, he's also tenacious, and his work rate is excellent.

So why don't we look into developing him into a number 6 defensive midfielder, to sit in front of the back four to offer us some protection, and to stop our midfield being bypassed game after game?
Think about it, he could be that defensive midfielder we've been crying out for, and because he's so good with the ball at his feet, he can also be the player to bring the ball forward and transition our play from defence into attack.

Martínez's height means I would much prefer to have the likes of Maguire and Varane at centre-back because of their excellent aerial ability - even if Maguire's lack of pace means we are unable to play a high line.

What do you think, do we actually already have the defensive midfielder that we have been longing for, for so long in Martínez?
Good suggestion but his athleticism will be the main problem. Mobility would be an issue. Not pace but mobility.
 

dutchred

Full Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
1,971
Genuine question...

Are we missing a trick with this guy?

It's my opinion that his small height is a hindrance to the team in the Premier League, especially with him being a centre-back.

He is really good on the ball though, he's also tenacious, and his work rate is excellent.

So why don't we look into developing him into a number 6 defensive midfielder, to sit in front of the back four to offer us some protection, and to stop our midfield being bypassed game after game?
Think about it, he could be that defensive midfielder we've been crying out for, and because he's so good with the ball at his feet, he can also be the player to bring the ball forward and transition our play from defence into attack.

Martínez's height means I would much prefer to have the likes of Maguire and Varane at centre-back because of their excellent aerial ability - even if Maguire's lack of pace means we are unable to play a high line.

What do you think, do we actually already have the defensive midfielder that we have been longing for, for so long in Martínez?
As long as ETH is in charge it will never happen.
 

MadDogg

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Apr 24, 2002
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Manchester Utd never lose, just run out of time
Genuine question...

Are we missing a trick with this guy?

It's my opinion that his small height is a hindrance to the team in the Premier League, especially with him being a centre-back.

He is really good on the ball though, he's also tenacious, and his work rate is excellent.

So why don't we look into developing him into a number 6 defensive midfielder, to sit in front of the back four to offer us some protection, and to stop our midfield being bypassed game after game?
Think about it, he could be that defensive midfielder we've been crying out for, and because he's so good with the ball at his feet, he can also be the player to bring the ball forward and transition our play from defence into attack.

Martínez's height means I would much prefer to have the likes of Maguire and Varane at centre-back because of their excellent aerial ability - even if Maguire's lack of pace means we are unable to play a high line.

What do you think, do we actually already have the defensive midfielder that we have been longing for, for so long in Martínez?
It's a possibility, but unlikely. ETH played him mostly as a DM in their first season together at Ajax, but then moved him into the defence and said that Martinez doesn't have the running power to play in midfield. If ETH felt he struggled at it in the Eredivisie, it's highly unlikely that he sees him as an option in the PL.

Maybe a different manager will come in and think Martinez is an option there in a different set-up.
 

andersj

Nick Powell Expert
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
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4,336
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Copenhagen
What do you think, do we actually already have the defensive midfielder that we have been longing for, for so long in Martínez?
Dont think so. But there is a lot of young managers that play a possession based 343. I think quite a few of them would love Martinez in the middle of that back three. Both due to his aggressive nature and excellent timing when sweeping behind the midfield, and due to his line breaking passes. He could make that setup less «heavy at the back».
 

Red Royal

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Aug 19, 2013
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It's a possibility, but unlikely. ETH played him mostly as a DM in their first season together at Ajax, but then moved him into the defence and said that Martinez doesn't have the running power to play in midfield. If ETH felt he struggled at it in the Eredivisie, it's highly unlikely that he sees him as an option in the PL.

Maybe a different manager will come in and think Martinez is an option there in a different set-up.
I think he is absolutely fine as a cb when fit and his height isn't an issue.
 

Gordon S

Full Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
3,739
Genuine question...

Are we missing a trick with this guy?

It's my opinion that his small height is a hindrance to the team in the Premier League, especially with him being a centre-back.

He is really good on the ball though, he's also tenacious, and his work rate is excellent.

So why don't we look into developing him into a number 6 defensive midfielder, to sit in front of the back four to offer us some protection, and to stop our midfield being bypassed game after game?
Think about it, he could be that defensive midfielder we've been crying out for, and because he's so good with the ball at his feet, he can also be the player to bring the ball forward and transition our play from defence into attack.

Martínez's height means I would much prefer to have the likes of Maguire and Varane at centre-back because of their excellent aerial ability - even if Maguire's lack of pace means we are unable to play a high line.

What do you think, do we actually already have the defensive midfielder that we have been longing for, for so long in Martínez?
I feel the same. When he is in best possible form it works quite well to have him as a cb. Lots of good qualities.
But there are moments here and there when his lack of size becomes a problem. He is not particularly quick either so it can become a problem.
Ideally i would say that players in the mould of Saliba, Stones, Diaz is what you are looking for in this league.
LvG played a quite similar player in Blind in midfield. Worked out ok iirc. But he lacked a bit of bite and ability to speed things up. Think Licha has what Blind was missing. Wouldn`t mind to try him there. But it would also leave an even bigger hole to fill at CB. We don`t have any CB that fills me with any confidence going into next season if we dont have Licha
 

Bubz27

No I won’t change your tag line
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
21,605
Any post suggesting Maguire over Martinez at CB doesn't deserve listening to.
 

poleglass red

Full Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2015
Messages
3,716
Genuine question...

Are we missing a trick with this guy?

It's my opinion that his small height is a hindrance to the team in the Premier League, especially with him being a centre-back.

He is really good on the ball though, he's also tenacious, and his work rate is excellent.

So why don't we look into developing him into a number 6 defensive midfielder, to sit in front of the back four to offer us some protection, and to stop our midfield being bypassed game after game?
Think about it, he could be that defensive midfielder we've been crying out for, and because he's so good with the ball at his feet, he can also be the player to bring the ball forward and transition our play from defence into attack.

Martínez's height means I would much prefer to have the likes of Maguire and Varane at centre-back because of their excellent aerial ability - even if Maguire's lack of pace means we are unable to play a high line.

What do you think, do we actually already have the defensive midfielder that we have been longing for, for so long in Martínez?
Great post. To me, lack of pace and he's injury prone. Can't rely on him.
 

Sylar

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2007
Messages
40,582
How much has his height been a problem though? It certainly wasn't for the majority of last season. He coped for the most part and we were better with him vs without him.
The issue is rushing him back too soon several times.
 

Ace

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Joined
Feb 22, 2008
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Location
Colorado
Can’t afford to count on him as a starter next season which means we need two, starting, CB upgrades.

Martinez probably could also do a job as an inverted left back. Not sure who is less reliable between him and Shaw though.
 

Sandikan

aka sex on the beach
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
53,569
How much has his height been a problem though? It certainly wasn't for the majority of last season. He coped for the most part and we were better with him vs without him.
The issue is rushing him back too soon several times.
He's surprisingly good at masking any issue height wise individually. But the team always needs 2 or 3 aerially strong players along side him.
Some games you simply need the Maguire, McTom brute strength and height.
 

Sylar

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2007
Messages
40,582
He's surprisingly good at masking any issue height wise individually. But the team always needs 2 or 3 aerially strong players along side him.
Some games you simply need the Maguire, McTom brute strength and height.
Think that's where varane was a good partner for him. Good positioning to help out and they had a good number of games together last season iirc
 

Stadjer

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Apr 5, 2013
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How much has his height been a problem though? It certainly wasn't for the majority of last season. He coped for the most part and we were better with him vs without him.
The issue is rushing him back too soon several times.
Yes. People just come up with the lazy ''make him a LB or DM because he is too short to be a CB''. But he was great when he played as a centre back, he wasnt too short at all. I cant remember a situation where he was too short and it caused problems. He dominated taller strikers. He could lose a duel like any defender can but he would take the ball shortly after anyway

He just need to get fully fit (and not partly fit like before) and show people that they are wrong yet again.