Liverpool - 2017/18

[RedRom]

By all means you should be confident of winning, but there's still Mane and Firmino, maybe 1 of Lallana or Oxlade-Chamberlain. A random set piece or a Pogba handball. Anything can happen in a game.

It would be foolish to dismiss us as just stop Salah and you win, and 1 thing Jose isn't is a fool, as shown by his setups at Anfield.

I never get why fans can never contemplate defeat in a game, especially in a top 6 game. Both United and Liverpool this season have proven they can lose and drop points to poor teams, let alone against each other.

How many goals has Mane got this season? Same for any of the other players that you mention (Lallana, and Chamberlain)?

Yes they will still pose a threat, but so do any team on their day, however when looking at their team, the big standout player is Salah, and his stats compared to the rest of the team show this.
Firmino is also a danger, but not in the same sense, after those two, the players that could score do not have good records for doing so.

Could we get beat, of course we could, so not sure why you are saying that I am not thinking that is an impossibility, when any team can get beat by any other team, but it would be a very disappointing result if we were to do so.

 

[TheLiverBird]

They have Coutinho to thank for a fair chunk of points before he left, now that he has gone, they have not exactly been on fire picking up points have they?

Salah is their main threat, with Firmino a bit behind in second place, but after that it really is slim pickings.

Yes any one player on their day could cause damage to any team, but in general terms, it really is just Salah that is the big and main threat, subdue him, and you take away a huge threat from them, and make it a lot easier to beat them.

Beaten Man City

Had a 3-0 comfortable win

Drew against a strong Spurs side

Only game we've collapsed in is the Swansea game but we've picked up since

Not doing too bad without him

(not that I'm glad he gone, or don't miss him, I'd have to be mad to say that)

 

[ShadesOfTomato]

But both were dangerous situations that should have been prevented. The second one lead to a goal

Beaten Man City

Had a 3-0 comfortable win

Drew against a strong Spurs side

Only game we've collapsed in is the Swansea game but we've picked up since

Not doing too bad without him

(not that I'm glad he gone, or don't miss him, I'd have to be mad to say that)

.
Could include the Burnley away win too.

 

[Empathy 2020]

They have Coutinho to thank for a fair chunk of points before he left, now that he has gone, they have not exactly been on fire picking up points have they?

Salah is their main threat, with Firmino a bit behind in second place, but after that it really is slim pickings.

Yes any one player on their day could cause damage to any team, but in general terms, it really is just Salah that is the big and main threat, subdue him, and you take away a huge threat from them, and make it a lot easier to beat them.

Actually you are wrong.
Liverpool got more points per game WITHOUT Coutinho in the team.
It think it is highly simplistic to assume Liverpool are about any one player

With Coutinho

Played: 14
Won: 6
Goals: 30
Points per game: 1.8
Goals per game: 2.1

Without Coutinho

Played: 9
Won: 7
Goals: 20
Points per game: 2.4
Goals per game: 2.2

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Beaten Man City

Had a 3-0 comfortable win

Drew against a strong Spurs side

Only game we've collapsed in is the Swansea game but we've picked up since

Not doing too bad without him

(not that I'm glad he gone, or don't miss him, I'd have to be mad to say that)

You also got knocked out of the FA Cup at home by West Brom.

I'd say that was a pretty bad result.

 

[TheLiverBird]

You also got knocked out of the FA Cup at home by West Brom.

I'd say that was a pretty bad result.

I'd agree

hurt that one did

 

[JamesO]

How many goals has Mane got this season? Same for any of the other players that you mention (Lallana, and Chamberlain)?

Yes they will still pose a threat, but so do any team on their day, however when looking at their team, the big standout player is Salah, and his stats compared to the rest of the team show this.
Firmino is also a danger, but not in the same sense, after those two, the players that could score do not have good records for doing so.

Could we get beat, of course we could, so not sure why you are saying that I am not thinking that is an impossibility, when any team can get beat by any other team, but it would be a very disappointing result if we were to do so.

I just thought you were coming across as very dismissive of us by saying Salah is our only half decent player. I apologise if that wasn't your intention.

I believe Firmino has 20 goals and Mane 9 for the season, so Firmino certainly matches up well as as big a threat to you as your forwards are to us. Mane is having a very up and down season but 9 goals is still a decent return at this stage of the season.

Anyway, I guess we'll find out next month. Personally I hate the Liverpool/United games. Rarely good games to watch lately mainly cos it seems everyone is afraid of losing the game rather than going out to win it.

 

[RedRom]

I just thought you were coming across as very dismissive of us by saying Salah is our only half decent player. I apologise if that wasn't your intention.

I believe Firmino has 20 goals and Mane 9 for the season, so Firmino certainly matches up well as as big a threat to you as your forwards are to us. Mane is having a very up and down season but 9 goals is still a decent return at this stage of the season.

Anyway, I guess we'll find out next month. Personally I hate the Liverpool/United games. Rarely good games to watch lately mainly cos it seems everyone is afraid of losing the game rather than going out to win it.

Yeah I am not too much of a fan of these games, far too much tention and emotion involved in them!

But I will say that Firmino is a threat to go alongside Saiah, but after that, it really is much of a muchness with goals hard to come by for the rest of the team, so whilst of course it is certainly not an impossibility to see others scoring, it is just that there is significantly less likelihood of them doing so, kind of like the likelihood of Pogba or Sanchez scoring is much more likely than Jones or Shaw, but it doesn't mean that the latter could not score (if they were to be involved in the game).

Each team has their main threats, it is just we have the possibility to do so from more people, whereas it is most likely from just Salah and Firmino for Liverpool, the rest have to rely on being lucky or having a very very good day themselves (or playing above themselves).

 

[shaky]

Will be interesting to see how they cope with the Champions League starting up again. No great surprise that Liverpool's best run of form this season coincided with the European Football interval. After winning only 1 of the 6 league games following their CL group ties, it's possible that a prolonged CL run this season could hurt their chances of qualifying for it next season.

 

[JamesO]

Yeah I am not too much of a fan of these games, far too much tention and emotion involved in them!

But I will say that Firmino is a threat to go alongside Saiah, but after that, it really is much of a muchness with goals hard to come by for the rest of the team, so whilst of course it is certainly not an impossibility to see others scoring, it is just that there is significantly less likelihood of them doing so, kind of like the likelihood of Pogba or Sanchez scoring is much more likely than Jones or Shaw, but it doesn't mean that the latter could not score (if they were to be involved in the game).

Each team has their main threats, it is just we have the possibility to do so from more people, whereas it is most likely from just Salah and Firmino for Liverpool, the rest have to rely on being lucky or having a very very good day themselves (or playing above themselves).

Yeah that's fair enough. Certainly if you stifle our starting 11 then we don't have the goalscoring threat off the bench to change things up, whereas you will in all likelihood have 1 of Martial/Rashford to bring on at the bare minimum.

Last post for today so seems as good a place as any to leave this discussion.

 

[haram]

They are not ahead of us tactically

How many times does their defensive side have to capitulate before people realise that team is majorly flawed.

 

[Rafateria]

Top 6 results

Vs spurs (A) - L 1-4
Vs city (A) - L 0-5
Vs Chelsea (H) D 1-1
Vs arsenal (H) W 4-0
Vs united (H) D 0-0

Vs spurs (H) D 2-2
Vs city (H) W 4-3
Vs arsenal (A) D 3-3

Overall P8 W2 D4 L2 GF15 GA18

Even the top 6 results have been poor this season

You think breaking even pointswise is poor ? OK then.

 

[Rafateria]

You also got knocked out of the FA Cup at home by West Brom.

I'd say that was a pretty bad result.

A bad result that could actually end up playing a part in helping us to Top 4. We are now likely to have the least amount of games left to play this season (assuming we don't go t to the CL final !) out of the Top 6 teams and with our small squad that could give valuable rest time that could be of vital importance.

 

[Thunderhead]

Actually you are wrong.
Liverpool got more points per game WITHOUT Coutinho in the team.
It think it is highly simplistic to assume Liverpool are about any one player

With Coutinho

Played: 14
Won: 6
Goals: 30
Points per game: 1.8
Goals per game: 2.1

Without Coutinho

Played: 9
Won: 7
Goals: 20
Points per game: 2.4
Goals per game: 2.2

hate stats like this, doesn't take into account so many different scenarios.

 

[The sonarp red]

What goes around comes around. Alli , kane and lamela all fell easy last night. Just like sterling, gerrard, suarez and a lot of other liverpollplayers have done. Finnaly they got what they deserved. Justice in a strange way.

 

[Liver_bird]

Will be interesting to see how they cope with the Champions League starting up again. No great surprise that Liverpool's best run of form this season coincided with the European Football interval. After winning only 1 of the 6 league games following their CL group ties, it's possible that a prolonged CL run this season could hurt their chances of qualifying for it next season.

It no doubt will. Having fresh legs to bring off the bench is imperative. We don't have the quality of depth without suffering a drop off.

 

[Finn MacCool]

It no doubt will. Having fresh legs to bring off the bench is imperative. We don't have the quality of depth without suffering a drop off.

Utd-Liverpool is 4 days after we play 2nd leg v Porto and 3 days before Utd play 2nd leg v Sevilla. Not sure who, if either side, thats suits better.

 

[shaky]

Utd-Liverpool is 4 days after we play 2nd leg v Porto and 3 days before Utd play 2nd leg v Sevilla. Not sure who, if either side, thats suits better.

I reckon it probably benefits Utd more for the league game, but it's a negative for us in terms of the Seville tie, so I'd probably prefer to be in Liverpool's situation instead, and have the CL game out of the way beforehand.

 

[Halds]

The saltiness of the Liverpool fans on twitter is something to behold. This mentality that everyone is out to get them and every loss is a complete conspiracy against them is baffling. Think it all really started with Suarez and the club circling it's wagons when he was accused of racial abuse that time. I thought that was disgraceful as he clearly did it but they went into complete denial.

It's just gone into over drive since. Being a Spurs fan from London I didn't care that much about them over the years, apart from the glory hunting Liverpool fans from London that popped up in the 80's at school. Since the Suarez incident especially I've lost all respect for the club and it's fans. Even on Instagram all you see are their fans commenting on Lamela's photos saying lovely stuff like 'I hope your kids burn in hell'. Just absolutely despicable.

After Spurs beat United last week I saw no such reaction from United fans. One of the reasons why I like reading and posting on Redcafe.

Oh, come on ffs.. Reading a few quotes from some idiots, and then you lay it out like it's the entire fanbase behaving like that

 

[Hugh Jass]

Oh, come on ffs.. Reading a few quotes from some idiots, and then you lay it out like it's the entire fanbase behaving like that

This. Naive Realism.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

A bad result that could actually end up playing a part in helping us to Top 4. We are now likely to have the least amount of games left to play this season (assuming we don't go t to the CL final !) out of the Top 6 teams and with our small squad that could give valuable rest time that could be of vital importance.

I can see you're trying to put a positive spin on the defeat but I'm not sure going out the FA Cup at home to west Brom ever has any positives.

Last season you played fewer games than most of the other top 4 rivals and you still had to scrape into top 4 on the last day. Would doing the same again this season really represent improvement?

Unless you win the Champions League, which looks very very unlikely, this is the longest spell without a trophy you've had since Shankly arrived.

 

[Liver_bird]

Utd-Liverpool is 4 days after we play 2nd leg v Porto and 3 days before Utd play 2nd leg v Sevilla. Not sure who, if either side, thats suits better.

They have a huge squad. Unless we have a 1week break that week?? Even still we knackered by 60 as we often did in the latter stages of last season . It's not a good position for us either way.

 

[melatonin]

Lallana losing the plot in an under 23's game

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[livs]

Yeah I am not too much of a fan of these games, far too much tention and emotion involved in them!

But I will say that Firmino is a threat to go alongside Saiah, but after that, it really is much of a muchness with goals hard to come by for the rest of the team, so whilst of course it is certainly not an impossibility to see others scoring, it is just that there is significantly less likelihood of them doing so, kind of like the likelihood of Pogba or Sanchez scoring is much more likely than Jones or Shaw, but it doesn't mean that the latter could not score (if they were to be involved in the game).

Each team has their main threats, it is just we have the possibility to do so from more people, whereas it is most likely from just Salah and Firmino for Liverpool, the rest have to rely on being lucky or having a very very good day themselves (or playing above themselves).

Bases on stats this season there is no clear evidence to show Man UTD have a better chance of scoring in more areas, there just isn't enough goals scored by individuals to see it as a valid point.

 

[BarcaSpurs]

Lallana losing the plot in an under 23's game

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He'll get a proper ban for that right?

 

[Ireland]

I be Liverpool fan long time we seem always two or three players short win premier league plus money waste on bad players down years we need other playmaker and forward and goalkeeper

 

[clarkydaz]

Not sure I can see where I said 'the entire fanbase' is like that?

What I will say is in general United fans accepted the defeat last week with some grace. The Liverpool fans, in general, are taking the view that the manner of this draw somehow shows the deep rooted anti Liverpool agenda that referees/linesmen/The FA etc etc etc has against them. If you don't believe that have a trawl through the Liverpool related accounts on Twitter.

united fans on here after a defeat tend to go a bit crazy but its usually saying which players were poor and useless. Liverpool fans blame everybody else on the planet

 

[Halds]

Every set if fans will be furious, if they lose or draw a tight important match with one or two dodgy pens awarded against them at home..

 

[RedRom]

Bases on stats this season there is no clear evidence to show Man UTD have a better chance of scoring in more areas, there just isn't enough goals scored by individuals to see it as a valid point.

Now let's see we have Lukaku, Rashford, Martial, Sanchez, Pogba, Mata, and Lingard who can chip in with goals when required, Liverpool have Salah, Firmino, and at a big push Mane, so yeah I can see where you are coming from when you say that it is about equal!

 

[GlastonSpur]

He'll get a proper ban for that right?

Yep, should be 3 games for violent conduct.

 

[Santos J]

Lallana losing the plot in an under 23's game

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What a bellend

 

[GlastonSpur]

Spurs U23 1 - Liverpool 0.

Llallana sent off for violent conduct and this is a comment from Rawk: "Kicked us all over the pitch second half, Ref gave them everything".

 

[Halds]

Now let's see we have Lukaku, Rashford, Martial, Sanchez, Pogba, Mata, and Lingard who can chip in with goals when required, Liverpool have Salah, Firmino, and at a big push Mane, so yeah I can see where you are coming from when you say that it is about equal!

So you count in Rashford with 4 goals in PL, Pogba and Mata with 3.. And you think counting Mané in with 6 goals is a big push??

 

[Klopper76]

Lallana losing the plot in an under 23's game

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Completely lost his head there over nothing.

 

[RedRom]

So you count in Rashford with 4 goals in PL, Pogba and Mata with 3.. And you think counting Mané in with 6 goals is a big push??

Fair enough then, add Mane to the list of Salah and Firmino, that still makes it just the three players, when compared to our more numerous players.

 

[Halds]

Fair enough then, add Mane to the list of Salah and Firmino, that still makes it just the three players, when compared to our more numerous players.

Yeah.. You have a few more strings, but you can't play them all at the same time.

You have some good options from the bench when needed though, where we have none. An injury to Salah, Firmino or Mané, and we're screwed. I am not sure why we let Sturridge go, as he is way better than what we have as replacements now.

 

[ValenciasDrilledCrosses]

Fair enough then, add Mane to the list of Salah and Firmino, that still makes it just the three players, when compared to our more numerous players.

And yet they're only 5 points behind us. Klopp sets up their attack very well and they will always blow teams away with the way they press. Thankfully their defensive discipline and setup is poor which is why we've pulled ahead of them for now.

 

[BobbyManc]

He'll get a proper ban for that right?

Only for reserve games though. Same as when fellow English strongman Jack Wilshere tried to act like he isn't about 5'1 when he kicked off against someone on City's youth team.

 

[RedRom]

And yet they're only 5 points behind us. Klopp sets up their attack very well and they will always blow teams away with the way they press. Thankfully their defensive discipline and setup is poor which is why we've pulled ahead of them for now.

They will always blow teams away? Really? Ask West Brom, or Swansea, or Spurs if they blew them away, as I certainly don't believe that they did.

The fact that they are five points behind us is more due to the fact that we dropped points in matches where we really should not have done so, then anything special on their behalf.

I can see them struggling now until the end of the season, same as they always have done under Klopp from round about this time period, as they have a tiny squad, and be asks far too much of them on s consistent basis.

 

[ValenciasDrilledCrosses]

They will always blow teams away? Really? Ask West Brom, or Swansea, or Spurs if they blew them away, as I certainly don't believe that they did.

The fact that they are five points behind us is more due to the fact that we dropped points in matches where we really should not have done so, then anything special on their behalf.

I can see them struggling now until the end of the season, same as they always have done under Klopp from round about this time period, as they have a tiny squad, and be asks far too much of them on s consistent basis.

I'm saying they'll always win lots of games during the season by blowing teams away, not that they do it every match. Our approach is much more controlled and we've built on our solid defensive base from last year by being more potent up front and turned a lot of draws into wins. Liverpool have built from the front and their team gets worse the farther back you go. I mean Wijnaldum, Henderson and Milner in midfield is dire. Looks like with Keita and Van Dijk (despite some early struggles he's a good CB) they're actually trying to revamp the midfield and defence but as long as Klopp keeps setting up so naively at the back they will have some struggles.

And take off your United-tinted glasses for a second. The 'dropped points we shouldn't have' excuse can be used for every big team. In the end it balances out.