Liverpool 2018/19

[roonster09]

Not gonna bother looking at the numbers, but here are my thoughts - Zidane broke the transfer record for €77m in 2001, Buffon went for €52m the same summer, which was a monstrous sum for a keeper and two thirds of the world record. Allison went for €75m, only a third of the current world record set a year before. Or half of the record signed by a club that is not PSG (coutinho).

It's a hefty fee, but not totally out there for a keeper who could be one of the best in the world (fingers crossed). The bigger oddity really is that Buffon's record fee stood for 17 years.

See point is simple, Liverpool signed very good GK and paid huge money. Klopp also spend shit loads since he took over, it's not a crime to spend. If Liverpool stop their mental gymnastics to prove how Klopp didn't spend much or how Alisson didn't cost much, there won't be any arguments.

ManUtd spend money and we agree with it. Not sure why Liverpool fans are embarrassed by it.

 

[Rossa]

Proof of this ever happening?

Erik Thorstvedt, former Tottenham and Norways National team goalie argued that he was in hvis last Southampton season.

 

[roonster09]

Of course it tells you something. There is no way we would be able to spend this kind of money if we hadn't had to sell guys like Coutinho.

It doesn't tell the whole story of course - wages is a big part of that too. But it does say more than gross spend which is even more misleading in isolation, as it ends up telling stories like barcelona strengthening themselves to the tune of 250m with the signings of Coutinho and Dembele and Real about the buff their team with Hazard for 150m - as if the sales of Neymar and Ronaldo played no part.

Neither Net nor gross spend will tell you how much of an investment Sanchez was for you.

So Klopp was gifted with player like Coutinho who was worth 150 million, he sold him and signed 3 players for around same price and his spend is 0.

Jose takes over at Manutd and there aren't any players worth so much, so he spends money to sign players.

Conclusion is Klopp works with tight budget but Jose is checkbook manager, even though Klopp spent 380 million since taking over in October (and Liverpool spent 110 million in that summer).

 

[B20]

See point is simple, Liverpool signed very good GK and paid huge money. Klopp also spend shit loads since he took over, it's not a crime to spend. If Liverpool stop their mental gymnastics to prove how Klopp didn't spend much or how Alisson didn't cost much, there won't be any arguments.

ManUtd spend money and we agree with it. Not sure why Liverpool fans are embarrassed by it.

I quite agree. Except to say there will still be united fans arguing with the of klopp's past quotes for years to come.

 

[B20]

So Klopp was gifted with player like Coutinho who was worth 150 million, he sold him and signed 3 players for around same price and his spend is 0.

Jose takes over at Manutd and there aren't any players worth so much, so he spends money to sign players.

Conclusion is Klopp works with tight budget but Jose is checkbook manager, even though Klopp spent 380 million since taking over in October (and Liverpool spent 110 million in that summer).

I am not making either conclusion. My main conclusion is basically just that we don't have the same spending power as the manchester clubs overall and saying "look at how much klopp has spent" (gross) is not an accurate reflection.

I am not sure I agree with there "there aren't any assets like that" assessment. I doubt many would have, at any point in time, said that our squad had more value than yours. You got to keep De Gea for example, while we sell Coutinho. That's a difference.

Of course looking only at net spend is not accurate either. We may have been in net minus before this summer, but we are still shopping in significantly more exclusive shops than lesser teams with similar net spend, since we are shifting heavier assets and can pay higher wages than them. Our spending power gives us far more latitude in our transfers than 'net spend' alone tells you.

But we won't have many summers where we spend more than you. Even though it is nice to have one.

 

[roonster09]

I quite agree. Except to say there will still be united fans arguing with the of klopp's past quotes for years to come.

Sure, I will among the first to always point that out. He made a statement where he could have just said "he is not his player, so he wont comment", or "he has nothing to say". Made a laughable and pathetic comment and then paid record sum for CB and GK, so obviously I will point that out whenever Klopp makes big money signings.

 

[roonster09]

I am not making either conclusion. My main conclusion is basically just that we don't have the same spending power as the manchester clubs overall and saying "look at how much klopp has spent" (gross) is not an accurate reflection.

I am not sure I agree with there "there aren't any assets like that" assessment. I doubt many would have, at any point in time, said that our squad had more value than yours. You got to keep De Gea for example, while we sell Coutinho. That's a difference.

Of course looking only at net spend is not accurate either. We may have been in net minus before this summer, but we are still shopping in significantly more exclusive shops than lesser teams with similar net spend, since we are shifting heavier assets and can pay higher wages than them. Our spending power gives us far more latitude in our transfers than 'net spend' alone tells you.

But we won't have many summers where we spend more than you. Even though it is nice to have one.

Yeah, it's a balanced post. Disagree with bits and pieces, especially wages. In 2017 report, Liverpool spent 69% of their turnover on wages, Manutd spent 45%.

 

[Paul Martin]

So Klopp was gifted with player like Coutinho who was worth 150 million, he sold him and signed 3 players for around same price and his spend is 0.

Jose takes over at Manutd and there aren't any players worth so much, so he spends money to sign players.

Conclusion is Klopp works with tight budget but Jose is checkbook manager, even though Klopp spent 380 million since taking over in October (and Liverpool spent 110 million in that summer).

Point missed here is Coutinho wasn't BOUGHT for a huge fee. He developed into that player at Liverpool (also Suarez & Sterling). Utd were spunking money on high cost players who depreciated in value and were sold at a loss so it wasn't as if Utd hadn't spent huge money on the squad in the post-Fergie, pre-Jose years. They'd spent considerably more money then Liverpool in those years to arrive a the "no players of any value to sell" situation.

 

[Random Task]

The facts are there to back up that 'net spend' is an absolutely ridiculous concept invented by football fans on the internet which was cottoned onto by lazy, clickbait-hunting 'journalists'. It's a meaningless, pseudo-metric which tells us nothing, and if Liverpool spending hundreds of millions is what it takes to finally see the idea die then it's absolutely worth them having a good team...as long as they don't win the league.

Amen to that!

 

[automaticflare]

Not necessarily imo. We have to push forward though. Get closer to the top in the league, and go deeper in the cups.

We need to continue developing. Show that we're able to compete with the best. If we can do that it's a good season. Silverware would be fantastic obviously, but it doesn't make or break the season imo.

What a crock of shit how much deeper in cups can you go than getting to finals and losing. Winning??

 

[Speedy30]

I don't give a damn how much we've spent. We've had gaping holes in our squad for a long time and we have finally addressed the majority of them. Everyone on the planet could see that we needed a GK. This means that anyone with a half decent keeper is going to raise their price knowing how desperate we are/were.
Klopp has got every single one of his big money signings bang on so far. If spending £67m on a keeper that will do a job for us for the next decade is needed, then so be it. No guarantee that Alisson will work out but I'd rather take a £67m risk with him, than a £30m risk with a lesser keeper just to have to spend another large amount in 2 years time if he proves not to be good enough for what we need.

 

[Oga on top.]

I actually feel sorry for some of the opposition midfielders Keita will be playing against next season! he's an absolute boss player. Well done for this one boss.

 

[Halds]

What a crock of shit how much deeper in cups can you go than getting to finals and losing. Winning??

Are you aware, that there are more cups than CL? One of them is the FA Cup. Another has had different names, but is often referred to as the League Cup.

Or did you actually think, that I was talking about CL, when I said, that I expected us to go deeper in the cups?? If that's the case, you should check yourself to find the crock of shit.

 

[Random Task]

I actually feel sorry for some of the opposition midfielders Keita will be playing against next season! he's an absolute boss player. Well done for this one boss.

It's coming home?

 

[Oga on top.]

It's coming home?

Have you seen him play before? Let's just wait until August.

 

[roonster09]

Point missed here is Coutinho wasn't BOUGHT for a huge fee. He developed into that player at Liverpool (also Suarez & Sterling). Utd were spunking money on high cost players who depreciated in value and were sold at a loss so it wasn't as if Utd hadn't spent huge money on the squad in the post-Fergie, pre-Jose years. They'd spent considerably more money then Liverpool in those years to arrive a the "no players of any value to sell" situation.

Point missed. I'm talking about Klopp vs Jose, not ManUtd vs Liverpool.

 

[Random Task]

Have you seen him play before? Let's just wait until August.

I have never watched him play. He sounds like quite a guy though, that must count for something.

 

[TheReligion]

I actually feel sorry for some of the opposition midfielders Keita will be playing against next season! he's an absolute boss player. Well done for this one boss.

He was dire in the CL. Steady on! I know he's been good though in your pre season against Tranmere, Bury and Blackburn though

 

[Klopper76]

He was dire in the CL. Steady on! I know he's been good though in your pre season against Tranmere, Bury and Blackburn though

Players perform differently depending on the manager they’re playing for.

Generally speaking I don’t worry as much about Klopp’s signings because he seems to be quite good at getting the best out of them.

He’s the first Liverpool manager to make me feel like that since I’ve been supporting the club.

 

[shaky]

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Man, these Liverpool fans/journalists are something else.

De Gea who was signed for 18 million in 2011 is equivalent to 79 million in today's market but Suarez who was signed for 25 million in 2010-11 season was equivalent to 53 million. Funnily enough Fellaini who was signed nearly after 3 seasons for 27 million was worth 53 million after adjusting to inflation.

The new levels these Liverpool fans/journalists stoop is just

If De Gea cost £18m in 2011, and that's the equivalent of £80m now, I assume that means when they signed Andy Carroll in the same year, it was for the equivalent of £160m today, almost 75% of the ridiculous Neymar fee?

 

[Minimalist]

Just looked at the Tomkins table. Feck me, none of that makes sense at all. I mean the general idea holds that the money has changed but some of the figures don't follow at all.

Don't think this has been reviewed by actual statistician at any point.

 

[Can23]

He was dire in the CL. Steady on! I know he's been good though in your pre season against Tranmere, Bury and Blackburn though

He wasn't dire at all, he just didn't live up the lofty expectations of the previous year. He scored 2 goals in 4 and half games before he got injured not bad at all. And he was in the Europa League team of the season .

 

[Oga on top.]

He wasn't dire at all, he just didn't live up the lofty expectations of the previous year. He scored 2 goals in 4 and half games before he got injured not bad at all. And he was in the Europa League team of the season .

Pretty much this! Besides @TheReligion if you look at the group RB Leipzig had I still think they including Keita performed well, and as Can23 stated he got into the Europa team of the tournament. He has not played a meaningful match but trust me we are onto a winner with him. Even watching him last season when he dropped off a bit I still couldn't make out whether he was better at attacking or defending as he was very good at both in the matches I saw him play in. But the Premier League is different so we will see.

 

[montpelier]

After intensive research (wiki) I've got the respective reasonably obvious first choice XI both coming in at a purchase price of very close to £ 405 Million.

If I've added up wrong or you prefer Smalling to Jones or Hendo to Wijnaldum, there might be a 10 M swing some way or another.

It cocks off net spend obviously & doesn't differentiate the source of any money but it does reward good management for the development of TAA & persisting with players for some time (Young, Valencia). And shrewdly acquiring Alexis Sanchez for free, obviously - .

But not a lot in it, given the team choosing isn't that difficult, surprisingly enough. It isn't like everyone is fighting for their place to any great extent. Only other conclusion is that Liverpool's team is newer.

 

[montpelier]

Oh yeah.

The value of money as money doesn't alter according to Football transfer inflation. And as you never know quite what you're getting for what amount. I'm gonna argue that altering fees on this basis of fee / time, is a load of cobblers. You could do it on a per million per trophy won & sustain a viewpoint from a particular agenda if you wanted to - for example. But THAT carefully calculated value of the transfer would never actually exist either would it?

 

[Superfirmino]

Liverpool fan here. We're not signing Fekir, that's pretty much our business done regarding purchases. Our business herein will likely be sales. The first of which is Danny Ward to Leicester for approximately £12.5 million. My forecasts are for the others are Markovic, Ings and Orgi to all go permanently. Youngsters will also depart on loan.

My overall forecast is that Klopp could hit the £300 million mark regarding sales, taking his overall net spend to £92 million. His current sales figure us £255 milliin and has up to and including yesterday spent £392 million.

 

[Claude Cat]

Liverpool fan here. We're not signing Fekir, that's pretty much our business done regarding purchases. Our business herein will likely be sales. The first of which is Danny Ward to Leicester for approximately £12.5 million. My forecasts are for the others are Markovic, Ings and Orgi to all go permanently. Youngsters will also depart on loan.

My overall forecast is that Klopp could hit the £300 million mark regarding sales, taking his overall net spend to £92 million. His current sales figure us £255 milliin and has up to and including yesterday spent £392 million.

Think we're setting unrealistic price tags for Markovic stopping him being able to leave. I reckon he'll be stuck here for a year not playing then be released when his contract is up next year.

 

[TheReligion]

Pretty much this! Besides @TheReligion if you look at the group RB Leipzig had I still think they including Keita performed well, and as Can23 stated he got into the Europa team of the tournament. He has not played a meaningful match but trust me we are onto a winner with him. Even watching him last season when he dropped off a bit I still couldn't make out whether he was better at attacking or defending as he was very good at both in the matches I saw him play in. But the Premier League is different so we will see.

He's a good player no doubt but as you say last season he was a shadow of the player he was the previous. His discipline will also be interesting, much like Fred, as it has been questionable to say the least.

 

[Name Changed]

Since the Net Spend argument no longer favours Liverpool, will it be replaced by the inflation argument?

Who cares what they spent? Who gives a damn what Klopp has said before about not spending big money? We cannot talk. United play huge transfer fees and huge wages.

 

[Name Changed]

They'll be lucky to finish 3rd.

No, they won't.

 

[Random Task]

Who cares what they spent? Who gives a damn what Klopp has said before about not spending big money? We cannot talk. United play huge transfer fees and huge wages.

Okay, thanks for the input.

 

[Name Changed]

Okay, thanks for the input.

You're welcome. United fans moaning about other teams spending money is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[DonnieDarko]

There will be some interesting friendlies coming up. Salah and Mane are back from holiday, probably we'll see them + Keita and Fabinho playing against decent opposition.

 

[TheReligion]

Who cares what they spent? Who gives a damn what Klopp has said before about not spending big money? We cannot talk. United play huge transfer fees and huge wages.

Of course we can talk. Half the Liverpool fans here can eat humble pie after the trash we got about buying Pogba etc.

 

[Random Task]

You're welcome. United fans moaning about other teams spending money is absolutely ridiculous.

That's not at all what this discussion has been about. But don't let that get in the way of you jumping on your high horse for no apparent reason

 

[Hoof the ball]

Watched a bit of Keita in the last two L'Pool games. He was literally all over the pitch. It was Kante-esque how often he was winning balls all over. A good assist too for him. It may prove to be an excellent signing for them.

 

[DannyCAFC]

A lot of money for a 'keeper but I don't think it's extortionate in today's market, considering they are likely getting £12.5m back for Danny Ward as well.

Assuming Anfield isn't actually some sort of cursed ground for GK's and he doesn't turn to shite, he will be a massive upgrade. Statistics wise he was up there with the best GK's in Europe last season.

Getting him, Fabinho and Keita (kind of) all in one window is a real signal of intent, they are building a top quality side.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

It’s fantastic to only have to worry about City this coming season. I still think they will have to much for us over a 38 game season but I think we will run them close.

Your username is rather apt. You've barely scraped fourth the last two seasons yet having had a good transfer window you're dismissing the teams finishing ahead of you?

I actually think (on paper) you've done fantastically and should improve. I think we should be very wary of making too many assumptions about a side based on them 'winning' a transfer window though.. as I well know. You can't predict how these signings will do. It takes time for this stuff to click in to place.

You should certainly still be worried about other teams. I'd be surprised if United didn't engage in more business and they were clearly the league's second best last year, Chelsea reignited are unpredictable, and despite not improving (thus far) we will still be up there. To suggest any are no threat to Liverpool based on the hypothetical success of signings is utter folly. Liverpool aren't so strong they can disregard any of the top 6, no matter how impressive your signings.

 

[Name Changed]

That's not at all what this discussion has been about. But don't let that get in the way of you jumping on your high horse for no apparent reason

I've read plenty of stuff over the last couple of days about it.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

United fans can't really moan at another team spending big money. That said though, a lot of Liverpool fans out there are certainly being massive hypocrites right now. I personally know a couple from Uni who would moan endlessly about how United were wasting money/ruining the league by signing the likes of Pogba and Lukaku for huge fees. It's ok when they spend 75m on a CB and 60 odd on a goalkeeper, though.. that's 'the market', apparently.

Every teams fans do it though, to be fair. I bet United fans moaned endlessly at City for their spending, and us Spurs fans constantly moan about other teams spending power. Truth is, everybody complains until their own club does it and then they're delighted to see the signings roll in, that's just the way it is. Nobody really wants their club to be scrabbling around trying to find bargain basement buys, they want to see quality football every week and (generally) you only get that by paying the money.

I don't want to see any of this 'brave underdog' crap from Klopp and Liverpool anymore though. He's built a very expensive squad and must perform accordingly as one of the favourites.