Louis Van Gaal - Conference - Falcao and Blind unveiled - 11.09.14

[Mockney]

A dramatic improvement at the same age as Welbeck. I mean, it wouldn't be surprising at all if the same thing happened with Danny. Footballers often "get it" at that age but still, seeing him become massively more productive in an Arsenal shirt would suck.

I do definitely agree 23/24 seems to be the age where strikers come into their own. What Danny's "own" means in this case though remains to be seen. 20 goals? 30 goals? Depends on who you ask it seems.

Okay, I agree with what your saying in that first part but it doesn't really change that Rooney didn't play on the left most of the time when Ronaldo was here, as your post implied. I guess you could argue that he was played out of his favoured position, 10, but not sure its the same as Welbeck's situation. You'd have a hard time convincing anyone that Rooney's goalscoring record was especially good pre 23 because we forced him to play as a striker which somehow limited his goalscoring.

It's not really relevant anyway. It's pretty clear that even if Welbeck had played striker he would have got nowhere near Rooney's record which is no real criticism considering Rooney was pretty much the archetypal wonderkid. I guess I just wanted to point out Rooney didn't play left that much.

I could well be wrong, but my memory of 2007-2010 is of Rooney on the left hand side of the Ronaldo/Tevez/Berbatov attack? Not every game, no. But then Danny hasn't played every game stranded out on the left like some kind of pariah either.

But yeah, you get the general point.

 

[Minimalist]

Van Gaal's comment is harmless and makes perfect sense.

I looked forward to Welbeck fulfilling his potential as much as anyone but the fact is, he didn't look likely to become a great player at all. It's a risk selling him but hardly a massive risk that some people seem to be suggesting.

His goal record for us, the chances he's missed over the years and his lack of look & body language of a clinical striker makes it perfectly easy to see why Van Gaal wouldn't rank him too highly in comparison to RVP and Rooney.

 

[REJE]

Obviously, there might be something lost in translation but his comments about Welbeck are kind of stupid.

"He doesn't have the same record of Van Persie or Rooney. That is the standard. That is why we let him go."

He's comparing two world class strikers in their prime with a young up and coming striker who hasn't even been given a decent run of his games in his preferred positions. Apples and oranges.

Why are they stupid? He's below the level both strikers were at when they were his age. No excuses.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

You're really getting on board with this giving our new striker a chance shit aren't you? Where's your usual "everyone's being a grumpy sod and underrating our boys" schtick?

He scored his first professional goal at 14. So I'd say whatever league he was playing in, his development was pretty good.

Eh? Only talking about his record as a young 'un. Obviously his record as an adult speaks for itself. It's exceptional. He's an exceptional striker. Happy now?

 

[DWelbz19]

Didn't know you are an Arsenal supporter.
Lolz

Hey, I wasn't even that cut up about Welbeck in comparison to everyone on here. Ask my good pal @Ramshock

 

[Nogbadthebad]

Why are they stupid? He's below the level both strikers were at when they were his age. No excuses.

The more telling part was that he mentioned 'our youth' in that part as well in relation to welbeck.

In other words, hes spent time with them both, and thinks Wilson is a better prospect. I like Danny, great to have th local lad around as well, but I have to say, I think Wilson has real potential too, way beyond what danny has.

 

[itso 7]

Listen, I was trying to be sarcastic

My bad, but it's getting rather frustrating to see people turn Welbeck turned into this wronged boy hero. It's heartbreaking to us all but a decision was taken by those employed to run this club and this club will not die as a result if this decision.

 

[Rams]

The thing that got my attention was that I thought Van Gaal showed his class by A) pouring Blind & Falcao a glass of water at the start of the conference and B) pointing out how impressive it was that Falcao is willing to answer back in English.

 

[Mockney]

Eh? Only talking about his record as a young 'un. Obviously his record as an adult speaks for itself. It's exceptional. He's an exceptional striker. Happy now?

Yeah, thanks. It's just a bit tiring when you can provide conclusive evidence that all our strikers are or were better than Danny Welbeck and people will still use it as a reason why losing him is the worst thing ever. In a thread anouncing our new signings no less. I can't wait until the games start again and everyone can start to get over it.

 

[Deleted member 78215]

Falcao is saying all the right words, but every picture I see of him, he looks completely not bothered, about anything.



A strong contender for "least bothered about signing for United", a title held by Nick Powell, indisputable champion of not being bothered.

Also rivals Shaw for the "Oldest Looking 18-Year Old" award.

 

[Phil]

I don't think anyone's getting over it anytime soon. Just wait until he scores.

 

[matherto]

RVP is fitter than ever?

Proof that he's past it then?

I don't think anyone's getting over it anytime soon. Just wait until he scores.

It's Welbeck, we'll be waiting a while.

 

[Ekeke]

I was over selling Welbeck right away, its just a bit weird selling him to Arsenal especially when he's a good fit to solve their issues of not having a player to compete with Giroud or cover his current injury. If we had sold him to someone like Everton I doubt I'd have given it a second thought.

Welbeck did have plenty of games up front, he could have done with a few more in a row to get a run of games more often but part of getting that is earning it through impressing enough on the training pitch. And when he played up front with Rooney his goal return was not that great.

We've seen enough from Welbeck to say there's a chance he'll come good on his goalscoring record at Arsenal, in fact he seemed to be a bit more clinical last season. But then he'd still go back to falling over when he has a good chance to run through and while thats partly being unlucky, it happens more with him than any of our other players.

Will he ever be on Rooney, Falcao or Van Persie's level?

Not a chance. There never was a chance. He simply isnt that kind of talent.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Any news on rojo?

 

[Sheikhy]

Any news on rojo?

He has his permit and should be available for selection. we will find out tomorrow at the pre game presser.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

He has his permit and should be available for selection. we will find out tomorrow at the pre game presser.

Cheers

 

[NJM78]

But was he played on the left like Welbeck in his previous two seasons? Then, it's not a fair comparison. We should compare with a striker who wasn't played in his position and only then, we will even consider if we can accept the comparison.

Completely pointless.

The comparison may not be fair but why was he playing left...because he could not get a starting position up front. Same as Hernandez they obviously did not show enough in training or in games to warrant a starting place. Luckily for Danny he is really quick and strong and did a job out wide so got plenty of game time. I guess if he starts week in week out as central striker for Arsenal he can prove a lot of doubters wrong and good luck to him. The thing is though three different managers have thought he was not good enough based on the players at their disposal, at a lesser team maybe he would have been but not for us.
LvG is basically saying that not about whether his stats would be a lot better if he played centrally as no doubt they would improve with the more chances he'd have.
Falcao though is in a different league, not only his goals record but the fact he scores with either foot and head with a ridiculously good conversion rate.

 

[The Red Thinker]

He's a ego maniac.

So was Fergie, so is Mourinho. Ego maniacs make good managers. Though one could easily misunderstand ego for confidence.

 

[Iron Stove]

We better win the next game, because the negativity and lack of patience on this site does my head in at times. Even during our league winning seasons people were moaning. feck right off with that shit after 3 PL games under a new manager taking over a team that finished 7th last year.

Welbeck-gate is especially annoying. RVP and Rooney haven't really lived up to their reputations recently, but they have proven it in the past. But rather than relying on them and on Welbeck having a surprise breakthrough season at 24 years of age, at a point in his career where should be playing every week which he wouldn't get at United, we brought in one of the world's finest strikers in Falcao. And since it looks like we'll be playing with two strikers we need a total of four... which due to the sale of Welbeck opens up a spot for another very promising homegrown 18 year old player in Wilson who's at the point in his career where he can have patience and doesn't need to play every week but will still get games to prove his worth.

Give it another couple of months before you judge the project, because even if it was never gonna be smooth sailing this season, there are a lot of reasons to be positive about how the team is shaping up.

I expect us to be playing top class football after the injured key players come back and the new arrivals start adapting to the league and all of them adapt to the... "philosophy".

 

[Devil may care]

Watched the presser, very much focused on Falcao and he handled it very well. LvG is like Fergie, his answers are at times deadpan and then he'll make a joke and the journos laugh nervously.

It was good to hear LvG talk about developing the juice, I just wish he'd talked about which ones he felt were the juiciest right now and ready to be squeezed into the first team.

 

[RedStarUnited]

My take from that was;

A) He thinks Wilson is the better striker.
B) He couldnt/Welbeck didnt want to be converted to another position.

Welbeck then felt disrespected that LVG thought Wilson was better and demanded to be sold rather than a loan.

 

[The United Irishman]

Moan moan moan...

 

[Empire]

Why doesn't somebody total up all of Welbeck's games he has played centrally and the goals he has scored.

We have Falcao, Rooney, RVP and Wilson.

In five years time:

Falcao = 33 going on 34.
Rooney = 33 going on 34.
Wilson = 23 going on 24.

We could play one up top therefore 3 strikers is fine and it is possible Wilson leading the line with Rooney and Falcao in reserve could be good and that's without buying, it's likely we will buy somebody to be a second choice striker so Falcao / Rooney third choice should also be good.

This way we increase our chances of winning a premier league and even champions league in the next 3 years whilst still being in a good position 5 years from now.

United 5 years from now:

GK - De Gea (28)

LB - Luke Shaw (24)
CB - Rojo (29)
CB - Jones (27)
RB - Rafael (29)

CM - Strootman (29)
CM - Herrera (30)
CAM - Mata (31)

LW - di Maria (31)
ST - Wilson (23)
RW - Januzaj (24)

And that's buying only Strootman and then there is our juice who will also produce quality.

 

[Hoof the ball]

EVEN if you accept the fact that Welbeck was played out of position in a forward left or left wing position, you still have to account for why he has managed only EIGHT assists in his entire career. If he's not in a position to score, he should be good enough to assist. He's neither scored enough nor assisted enough....

and the big kicker is this. He's had as many yellow cards as he has had assists..........eight.

 

[Member 5225]

juice

 

[FromTheBench]

Also rivals Shaw for the "Oldest Looking 18-Year Old" award.

That African dude at Lazio who has a thread in FF about him is unbeatable on this count.

 

[Redo91]

Obviously, there might be something lost in translation but his comments about Welbeck are kind of stupid.

"He doesn't have the same record of Van Persie or Rooney. That is the standard. That is why we let him go."

He's comparing two world class strikers in their prime with a young up and coming striker who hasn't even been given a decent run of his games in his preferred positions. Apples and oranges.

I'd agree with you if Danny was only 19 or 20 but he is nearly 24. He will be hitting his prime in a year or two so there isn't much room for improvement. The finished article won't be much better than what you see now. Rooney and RVP were in different league entirely at the same age. I'm genuinely baffled at some of the anger at seeing Welbeck go. I've been saying it for ages that he simply wasn't, and never will be, good enough for us. LVG was spot on. He isn't Manchester United quality. He was cut so much slack just because he is an academy graduate and a local lad. But for this there wouldn't be half as much anger over seeing him go. Wilson will turn out to be a far better player.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

No, because the bloody media never asked him about it.

thats so annoying! inseatd of getting the obvious answer about falcao, we may have acually lerned about van gaals plans.. press are rubish!

 

[Sixpence]

The thing that got my attention was that I thought Van Gaal showed his class by A) pouring Blind & Falcao a glass of water at the start of the conference and B) pointing out how impressive it was that Falcao is willing to answer back in English.

And he is always listening very closely to what his players are saying in these interviews. Most managers just switch off when it's not their turn to answer.

 

[FromTheBench]

Van Gaal has really stuck his neck out re Welbeck. Strange.


Guess we'll get more injury updates tomorrow.

 

[Trizy]

Falcao is saying all the right words, but every picture I see of him, he looks completely not bothered, about anything.



A strong contender for "least bothered about signing for United", a title held by Nick Powell, indisputable champion of not being bothered.

Falcao's first interview he was chuffed, really happy to be here. He seems quite shy though, that's what you're mistaken for not being arsed. As for Powell, he's either too cool or not bothered, I hope its the former of the two because that won't effect his career where the latter will.

 

[Minimalist]

Van Gaal has really stuck his neck out re Welbeck. Strange.


Guess we'll get more injury updates tomorrow.

It's easy for a manager without conviction to stay silent on why he sold a player to avoid criticism. Strong-minded and authentic managers will have no such qualms explaining their decisions.

I genuinely think Van Gaal is the sort of man who fully expects to see that he made the right decision but also couldn't give a toss if Welbeck went on to become a prolific goalscorer.

 

[Chorley1974]

In summary Wellbeck has a shit scoring record, a shit assists record, and wants to play as a central striker, and isn't happy being 4th choice striker, which is fair enough. He gets to play the main man at Arsenal, and develop his career, and we get a few quid back. Put in context that we got RVP for £20m, as a proven prolific striker I don't see what the fuss is about in many respects. The other aspect is that he's a manchester lad and come through the academy from an early age, it's a pity he's chosen to go, but sometimes circumstances dictate, and we really need a proven very high scoring striker if we are to get anything out of this season.

 

[Amethyst]

Anyone know if Jamie Jackson turned up to this after posting that van Gaal picture?

 

[ottosec]

Looks to me that LVG is having a different approach than Sir Alex. Fergie liked to keep a big squad with a lot of good players and basically only a few top ones, I think LVG is trying to build a very strong first 11 and complete the squad with young players.

Basically LVG got rid of the so called squad players and replaced them with youngsters. In Fergie's last years it was basically impossible for young players to break in the first team because of the many average players in the squad, now their chances are much higher, imo.

 

[Fully Fledged]

We sold David Beckham, I got over it and moved on. We sold Ronaldo, I got over it and moved on. Compared to those two being sold, Welbeck doesn't even register. Yes he was a good local lad who was good running with the ball and was willing to track back when we lost possession. But he was never in the same league as DB and CR7.

I really can't understand all the consternation about his being moved on to make way for more young talent. I know that Wilson is from Staffordshire and not from Manchester but he is an exciting young talent that has got loads of top professionals talking.

Please let's move on.

 

[gulli_G]

we have plenty of juice, wilson flavour, januzaj flavour and so on.

 

[Vidic_In_Moscow]

I really enjoy the response LVG gives to journalists and their stupid questions. He cuts them down brilliantly, even better than Fergie in my view who was more intimidation based. LVG shows them to be what they are - fools.

 

[Ish]

we have plenty of juice, wilson flavour, januzaj flavour and so on.

But....but...PSG has kebab flavour!

 

[Ole's_toe_poke]

Finally got to watch it.

Juice education.