Nowhere near their level is just plain wrong. If they are so much better they would do that much better but frankly the result on the pitch is similar. Better, sure but another level? I don't think so.
Luis Suarez - Barcelona Player
- Thread starter Pexbo
- Start date
well the results are much better - Barca could be 7 points ahead if they win their game in hand. and each of these teams are defined by their front 3. also, statistics aren't everything, you can just tell by watching that Barca's 3 are far above. they're the 3 best players in the world.
Praise the lord he moved away from Liverpool. Praise again they wasted his transfer money.
Surely Real will come up with something crazy big to match the Barca trio.
Surely Real will come up with something crazy big to match the Barca trio.
They can try but I don't see how they can match that kinda chemistry coupled with individual ability.
you always get the sense with MSN that they're playing within themselves and just having fun.. whereas the Real trio are playing to the max of their abilities. It isn't even close in terms of ability.. Barca surpass them in terms of skill, charisma, telepathy, vision.. you name it they have it.
This will sound blasphemous, but there's no player (besides Messi) I'd rather watch than the buck-toothed cnut. And it's been that way for several years.
I dont think there is any player in world football playing at their level, much less two!
Messi,Saurez and Neymar are the three best footballers around for me.
You could argue that Suarez is currently the best in the world
eugh. my fingers hurt from typing that
Amen brother!
I'm sure the Caf Reds would back me up but I really enjoy his extended highlights in his last season in the Premiership. It was the first time I followed the player that closely but it seemed obvious he should be involved in every debate of the world's best player. Sometimes great players simply have only 1 or 2 memorable seasons but I'm always blown away by his workrate, quality & versatility. Doesn't appear to have need of any instruction, just let him get on the pitch
Enormous player and absolutely rises to the occasion in the biggest matches, I really see him as a legend of the game in his own right and damn easy to overlook due to Messi & Neymar
Enormous player and absolutely rises to the occasion in the biggest matches, I really see him as a legend of the game in his own right and damn easy to overlook due to Messi & Neymar
I'm not disagreeing that they are the best, it's just that for someone that are by far the best they sure don't look like it on paper.
His last season at Liverpool was incredible. I can't think of another player who has transformed a big team in EPL to such an extent. Henry and Ronaldo were fantastic but they relied on great squads. When Cantona arrived at United, they were already one of the best teams around. The way in which Suarez transformed a midtable team into a genuine title challenger was very imprressive.
That front 4 of Suarez, Sturridge, Coutinho and Sterling was such a menace.
Goals aren't the only indicator. It's also about when they come, the contribution to the buildup and the interplay in the final third. Barcelona are potentially 7 points ahead in a league where 7 points is absolutely huge, and that's despite Madrid having (IMO) a better midfield. Barca's front three, while scores a similar amount, is miles ahead in terms of playmaking (Messi), dribbling (Messi and Neymar) and a better level of understanding (all three), team work and selflessness. Madrid's better threat from midfield from Modric, Kroos, Isco and in particular, James, bridges the gap, to an extent, but evidently not enough. There's definitely a real gap beween the two front 3's.
Nah. Better season than Messi, sure, but mostly because of Messi's injury.
Suárez is great but Messi is the king.
Barca basically only need to attack with 3 players, they only have 8 different scorers, of which one has more than 1 goal and less than Messi, and ~90% of their goals and assists are from those 3. The two teams approach the attack very differently. Real score more goals but are less consistent scorers. More different goalscorers and more players contributing to the attack effectively. Despite that their front 3 are racking up the same goal numbers.
To me it's very similar to the Messi vs Ronaldo debate. Arguments are similar, some say that Messi is by far the better player yet Ronaldo manages to keep up. Same thing here, one front 3 is supposedly miles better but still the other keeps up. For me it's about the end product since the game is about scoring more goals than the other team and if you can do that effectively and just as well that means you are as good. That's just not exactly the case this season any more than the last which is why Barca will get that 7 point lead and probably clinch the title with a win against Real at Nou Camp with 7 games left to play.
Madrid have better individual quality in midfield but Barca have more balance in it. This current Real Madrid team is just a string of superstars lumped into the starting XI and told to play football. They are severely imbalanced in throughout the pitch and their defence are exposed against any good opposition. They have no hope of winning anything this season.
That's why football isn't played on paper.
Both attacks will rack up the goals because there's a big gap in quality between them and the majority of the league. But there's so much more to the Barca attack it's unreal.
Pep was a bit crazy to leave this team tbf. He won't win the CL with Bayern this year and he won't with City either. He should have maxed out this golden period and then done his trip around Europe.
It's not just the gap of quality, it's that they're ruthless. They don't take it easy the last 10 minutes and close out the game that way, the try and score more. Teams that play against them and maybe keep a clean sheer or the game level for 50-60 minutes get mentally broken down when they score. If they then managed to get 2 goals up it's just game over. It's unfair to say that teams roll over to them because they do try but after you're down one goal you have to try and score. By trying you open yourself up more and you can't do that against Barca who've got Messi and Neymar stretched out so wide on either flank and Suarez running every channel that opens up.
That sounds easier than it is. It was reported that one of the reasons that he left was that he was struggling to motivate the players and that they were not responding to his methods and what he was saying as well as they were before. The team could have stagnated under him for all we know and perhaps getting a new manager, with new ideas and methods was for the best. Not everyone can do what Ferguson did, especially at a club like Barcelona or Madrid where there are a lot of politics involved and players have more power.
Agree.
Except they don't keep up, and the game is not simply about goals. That's a silly way of looking at it. The game is also about controlling games, dribbling skill that opens up space for others, doing great things when it really matters, team work and developing/displaying an understanding. Dumbing all of that down to "equal goals means as good" is wrong imo. Neymar, messi and Suarez are quite clearly out performing their Madrid rivals.
Agreed.
The season before, van Persie had helped a fairly average team (by our standards) win the league comfortably, but you're right that Suarez almost got a team used to finishing 6th, 7th and 8th (not that RAWK would have you think that by the way, with their 'return to normality' posts) to within a Gerrard slip of the league.
Exactly what I was about to say. Iniesta and Biscuits have one goal and eight assists between them this season, yet I'd struggle to name anyone better in central midfield at the moment and their contributions can't be measured by numbers. The front three is about way more than the stats and you actually have to watch the games to see why people think they're the best ever. Don't get my wrong, Madrid's front line is very good but it just doesn't feel like there's the same connection.
Ronaldo might be able to 'keep up' in terms of goals (and will probably outscore Messi again this year), but Messi will rightly be remembered as the better player by the vast majority of people I think. There was a period of about 6 months to a year where Messi struggled with injury and you could say Ronaldo was playing better, but that aside Messi has been a superior player since won his first Ballon d'Or.
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Controlling the game, opening up spaces and all that is all part of scoring more goals than the opponent and keeping it that way. The Real trio have delivered as many goal in total but not at as consistent level. They've got 3 goalless draws this season in the league which is keeping them behind but the margins are still slim.
Well yes but that's also my point. Messi is vastly considered better and he's also talked about as the greatest ever yet still Ronaldo manages to hold his own compared to that and that's basically what I feel like when comparing the two teams at the moment as well.
Cristiano doesn't hold his own against Messi and Madrid's front three don't hold their own against Barça's. Go beyond the stats and it's clear to see.
feck, even just look into the stats and it's obvious there too. Messi and co score when the margins are tight, Madrid's front three haven't been delivering in that area this season.
feck, even just look into the stats and it's obvious there too. Messi and co score when the margins are tight, Madrid's front three haven't been delivering in that area this season.
Didn't see that debate coming again to derail yet another thread
The Real trio is feasting on scrubs. Against Rayo Vallecano, Levante, Malmö etc. Real's trio can rack up the goals as much as Barca's trio obviously and those games make up the majority of a season (80 % of total games played in a season if not more). So if you just compare total number of goals scored without context the numbers might seem similar to Barca's trio. What separates men from boys and delivers trophies are games against the tougher opponents and that's where Madrid's trio sees no light against Barca's trio.
Barca's current top scorer vs. Madrid's current top scorer.
Total numbers without context: 23 vs. 21 goals.
With context:
Suarez: 14 goals against the top half of the table.
Ronaldo: 4 goals against the top half of the table.
Suarez: 9 goals against the bottom half of the table.
Ronaldo: 17 goals against the bottom half of the table (8 goals against just 1 team)
There is a reason why Barca's trio have won ever single game against Atletico (arguably the fiercest defense in Europe) whereas Madrid have won only 2 of their last 10 games against Atletico.
And to think he almost went to Arsenal!
If only Wenger paid up...
Has become a trend in Ronaldo's career during his time at Madrid, takes the weaker opposition to the cleaners but doesn't do to well against tougher opposition.The Real trio is feasting on scrubs. Against Rayo Vallecano, Levante, Malmö etc. Real's trio can rack up the goals as much as Barca's trio obviously and those games make up the majority of a season (80 % of total games played in a season if not more). So if you just compare total number of goals scored without context the numbers might seem similar to Barca's trio. What separates men from boys and delivers trophies are games against the tougher opponents and that's where Madrid's trio sees no light against Barca's trio.
Barca's current top scorer vs. Madrid's current top scorer.
Total numbers without context: 23 vs. 21 goals.
With context:
Suarez: 14 goals against the top half of the table.
Ronaldo: 4 goals against the top half of the table.
Suarez: 9 goals against the bottom half of the table.
Ronaldo: 17 goals against the bottom half of the table (8 goals against just 1 team)
There is a reason why Barca's trio have won ever single game against Atletico (arguably the fiercest defense in Europe) whereas Madrid have won only 2 of their last 10 games against Atletico.
Then we wouldn't have seen this kind of football. He would have held the holy trinity back with his different tactics. The fundamental tactics aren't that different, but Enrique's Barca is less about possession and more about risks, directness and improvisation. Those three thrive on that.
Here are his goalscoring stats vs top teams in La Liga since he joined Madrid (these are stats from last September).
Cristiano (RM career),
21 goals v Sevilla (in 13 apps) -- 1.62 gpg
15 goals v Atlético (in 22 apps) -- 0.68 gpg
15 goals v Barça (in 23 apps) -- 0.65 gpg
14 goals v Athletic (in 12 apps) -- 1.17 gpg
14 goals v Málaga (in 14 apps) -- 1.00 gpg
9 goals v Valencia (in 13 apps) -- 0.69 gpg
Stats courtesy of @Skorenzy
Those are very impressive statistics. Some of those gpg's are even better than Messi's (who is the best in the world IMO so that is a great achievement). They are impressive by any standards. In the CL for Madrid, he has 9 goals in 12 last 16 matches, 8 in 10 QF matches and 7 in 10 SF matches. Those are very impressive numbers and there will not be many players, if any (probably Messi will be the only one), that will have better numbers than that. So you are factually wrong about Ronaldo struggling against the tougher opposition.
That is not just down to Madrid's front three. The midfield struggles in big games too (as does the defence). Madrid as a team do not perform in big games, which is why the front three struggle. Obviously Barcelona's is better and is more likely to create from nothing, but them having a better front three is not the only reason that they are better in big games. Overall, their team has much more chemistry, is better balanced and is better organised. They are more of a team. Benzema, Bale and Ronaldo have shown in their career that they are without doubt capable of performing in big games and that they are world class and amongst the best in their positions, so the teams struggles in big games are not just down to them.The Real trio is feasting on scrubs. Against Rayo Vallecano, Levante, Malmö etc. Real's trio can rack up the goals as much as Barca's trio obviously and those games make up the majority of a season (80 % of total games played in a season if not more). So if you just compare total number of goals scored without context the numbers might seem similar to Barca's trio. What separates men from boys and delivers trophies are games against the tougher opponents and that's where Madrid's trio sees no light against Barca's trio.
Barca's current top scorer vs. Madrid's current top scorer.
Total numbers without context: 23 vs. 21 goals.
With context:
Suarez: 14 goals against the top half of the table.
Ronaldo: 4 goals against the top half of the table.
Suarez: 9 goals against the bottom half of the table.
Ronaldo: 17 goals against the bottom half of the table (8 goals against just 1 team)
There is a reason why Barca's trio have won ever single game against Atletico (arguably the fiercest defense in Europe) whereas Madrid have won only 2 of their last 10 games against Atletico.
Agree, but this has been Real's problem for a long time now. Why can't they create that same level of chemistry Barca's players have?
I still don't get the obsession of playing Kroos as the deepest midfielder in their 3 man midfield. The guy simply isn't good enough defensively to play that position.
Take out the Perez interruptions and they can work on that. Transfer ban can be a blessing in disguise.