LVG as our DOF

[Footyislife]

I know what you are thinking. Send this guy to the mental institution. But hear me out here. Ignore that knee jerk reaction, take a breath, and try to think through this mini-article of sorts.

LVG isn't a very good head coach in the EPL. Of this there is no doubt. He'll probably be fired as the head coach of the club in the summer (no guarantees, this is the EPL after all).

Despite his struggles at United, there is no doubt that LVG is talented at some aspects of being involved in major footballing decisions. He has a ridiculously keen eye for talent, is good at creating structure /discipline, takes a long term methodical approach termed endearingly as "the process", likes promoting youth, and understands the struggles of life in the premier league.

That sounds a lot like the job posting you'd send out for the DOF position at United?

He has some talent and skills befitting of the managerial position. But he struggles to put it all together and make good quick decisions. He's identified all these good youth players with great potential to turn over our aging overpriced squad. Signed a world class player in Di Maria. But then makes terrible decisions in tactics and man management failing to put these players in a position to succeed every week. His slow methodical approach and inability to adapt a process to fit his players are why his execution is so frustratingly inconsistent. But imagine if he controlled some of the decisions regarding bringing in new players and the youth squad, but didn't control the tactics or player selection in games?

Picture under a different free flowing attacking system, if we played Memphis in behind Rooney. Had Memphis making runs and finding space to operate in and Rooney in this interchangeable role with Memphis where he could drop deep sometimes playing the no. 10. Imagine Martial on the left terrorizing fullbacks, and Di Maria on the right wing. A excellent box to box midfielder (either Herrera or Schneiderlin) with good forward runs and a willingness to run back and tackle. Imagine us buying an actual DM who can cover ground to defend as well as pass. Paired with 2 decent CB's (ie. no Blind), it might be enough to allow our FB's (Shaw and Valencia) to actually cross the midfield in time to contribute to the attack; before the opposition gets in their full defensive shape. And all of this with a monster in goal in De Gea.

To provide squad depth in attack you had Hernandez, Welbeck, or Rashford. Hard working wingers like Lingard and Young running up and down to win those tough away games in champions league. Herrera, Carrick, Fosuh Mensah, Jones, and McNair in the midfield/defense. Solid backups in FB's in Rafael, Varela, and Bothwick Jackson. The tools were almost all there short of maybe a starting DM and CB.

Get a coach who dares to dream with an attacking mindset who is willing creating a system that puts players in the best position to succeed. To complement that have LVG focus on the structure and long term squad management. Fergie was one of a kind being able to do it all by himself, but I think if we split the job and using LVG at his natural position we might pick up where we left off.

 

[Norris]

The idea isn't bad, but he clashed heads with Ronald Koeman when he was a DoF at Ajax, so if a very temperamental manager comes in, it isn't going to be a pretty sight. Also, do you think a man like van Gaal would accept a DoF job at the club that basically might sack him in the summer ?

 

[Someone]

Send this guy to the mental institution.

 

[markorm]

You are off your rocker.

 

[Invictus]

Definitely not enthused by this idea. Repost from January:

Having previously worked together at Barcelona, where Van Gaal was coach and Koeman his assistant, the pair linked up again in 2004 at Dutch giants Ajax. At first, the arrangement seemed clear: Koeman was manager, Van Gaal was director of football. This meant Koeman had to handle all matters connected to the first team, like any manager would, while Van Gaal had to interact with scouts and attract new players. That way, Koeman could to focus on matches without having to worry about transfers. Simple, right?

Not to Van Gaal. The now-Manchester United manager has always been a bit of a control freak, and his stint as director of football at Ajax was no different. Almost immediately, Van Gaal started meddling with Koeman’s business and interfering with the first team. These interferences soon started to get on the manager’s nerves.

As Koeman explains in his self-titled biography, at every training session Van Gaal would take a chair from his office and take a seat right next to the training pitch. There, he’d sit and judge the players Koeman was coaching. On a few occasions, the director of football would start applauding the players he liked most.

Koeman was irritated. After all, he was Ajax’s manager. As director of football, Van Gaal was there to help him, not to undermine his authority in front of his own players. Concluding transfers and making deals in the boardroom, that was Van Gaal’s job. He wasn’t supposed to stick his nose into Koeman’s training methods.

But that wasn’t all. Things went from bad to worse when Van Gaal started arranging meetings with Koeman to discuss tactics. Again, Koeman felt like Van Gaal was undermining his authority. Why was Van Gaal trying to tell him what to do? Wasn’t he the manager, and wasn’t he the one calling the shots when it came to tactics?

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/get-a-director-of-football-in-now.413962/page-3

Van Gaal is stubborn in his beliefs, and intrusive to a fault - which is exactly why he fell out with the powers that be at other clubs (quite frequently). Hasn't happened at United, and that's fair enough - but, there's no saying what kind of professional chemistry he'll have with the potential new manager, plus he hasn't exactly proven his credentials as a squad builder at the club. And, you do get the sense that maybe he's fed up with what has transpired over the past few months, and half his mind is preoccupied with his villa in Algarve. He isn't some spring chicken who will 'focus on the structure and long term squad management' - a bit too long in the tooth for that, and with him, you'll just end up adding someone who might not be youthful enough to see the process out through the next decade or so - which is what you ideally need from a long term perspective.

Anyway, with regards to the DOF appointment bit, I think it's best that either:

—The new manager (or head coach) has some sort of input into who the DOF should be - this is to minimize potential bickering.
Or
—Appoint a DOF, and let him pick a manager of his choice - someone he has a strong relationship with him, or atleast someone who shares the same vision and approach to football.

Instead of forcing Louis on the new guy. That's just to ensure that the manager, and the DOF are on the same page, and because they helped appoint the other person - they'll atleast get along. One of the most common themes that lead to a fractured DOF + head coach combo is them falling out with each other because of a difference in ideology, blame shifting, difference of opinion when it comes to transfer targets (what if Van Gaal wants to add a left footed CB, and the Head Coach wants a right footed centerback who's qualitatively superior; or Van Gaal wants to retain Kraft, but the Head Coach wants Neuer?) - what have you. And it's extremely important for them to pull in one direction, instead of constantly being at loggerheads (which will likely be the case with Van Gaal given his prickly personality, and the impression that he can be 'difficult to work with' - something that has been brought up even at United). Don't bank on Van Gaal keeping his trap shut, and focusing on his own job. Based off of his history, he'll definitely try to influence the team - undermining the manager in the process. I'd rather someone who stayed in the shadows and went about his job in a nondescript fashion (aiding the manager, instead of micromanaging the details) than someone who has a propensity for tooting his own horn, and acquiring credit for minutiae.

 

[Perrick Dubois]

Ooooof, no thanks. But I do envisage LVG staying on for his third year behind the scenes and doing a general tidy up of his implementation while Jose works at the fore. Providing that kind of thing is what the powers that be are thinking about. Not saying it will happen but ideally you'd want him as far away from the club doing as little damage as possible after he has resigned/been sacked.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Even if he got this job it would be too short-term for a role which requires long-term strategy and planning.

He is going to retire in Portugal within 12 months.

 

[Perrick Dubois]

Send this guy to the mental institution.

Van Gaal or the OP?.. Harsh. The lad has just been promoted!

 

[suheilsworld]

Or we can have something what was mentioned in the below article. I loved the idea of having LVG and Mou working together at different aspects of our club.

http://www.theguardian.com/football...nho-louis-van-gaal-manchester-united-together

 

[amolbhatia50k]

As others have mentioned he's had problems in that role before, as probably logically should, as well. I personally wouldn't want as my DOF, a personality, clearly big enough to be a manager. It can result in big clashes with a manager like mourinho who wants control and no interferance.

 

[Crustanoid]

The only credentials I can see are as the Director of Waste Management at OT. The guy is an utter idiot and has no qualities which make me think he should be anywhere near the footballing side of the club.

 

[Stringer]

What evidence is there of this 'ridiculously keen eye for talent'? He's only brought in Memphis and Martial so that's one real success (which he deserves credit for) and one who has been horrible and has been benched. They were both very expensive and in Memphis' case he wasn't exactly an unknown anyway who Van Gaal plucked out of nowhere.

Also he could never be a DOF as he demands way too much control and would inevitably clash with the manager. Mourinho (or any other serious manager) would not tolerate him interfering.

 

[Rednotdead]

Knee jerk reaction was "is this guy on something?"

After thinking about it for a while, considered opinion is "this guy's definitely on something."

 

[acnumber9]

What evidence is there of this 'ridiculously keen eye for talent'? He's only brought in Memphis and Martial so that's one real success (which he deserves credit for) and one who has been horrible and has been benched. They were both very expensive and in Memphis' case he wasn't exactly an unknown anyway who Van Gaal plucked out of nowhere.

Also he could never be a DOF as he demands way too much control and would inevitably clash with the manager. Mourinho (or any other serious manager) would not tolerate him interfering.

I was going to ask the same. Anyone who buys Marcos Rojo because he intends to play a three man defence then ditches it when he finally realise it doesn't work shouldn't be trusted with transfer decisions.

 

[Brophs]

Hasn't his eye for talent led us to a point where most of the players who have signed during his time here aren't starters for us? We're probably okay for that sort of help, tbh.

 

[NoLogo]

I don't really think that finding the right players to build a quality squad is his strong suite. If anything it's more of his greatest weakness.

If you would argue for him to be head of youth development I might be open to that. He is great when it comes to working with young players. Buying players? Not so much.

 

[Stringer]

I was going to ask the same. Anyone who buys Marcos Rojo because he intends to play a three man defence then ditches it when he finally realise it doesn't work shouldn't be trusted with transfer decisions.

Yeah, I only mentioned the younger players he's brought in but even the more experienced ones have been questionable to say the least.

 

[acnumber9]

Yeah, I only mentioned the younger players he's brought in but even the more experienced ones have been questionable to say the least.

It's also alleged that it was Ryan Giggs who scouted Martial.

 

[marjen]

Promoting a guy who hasn't done his job well enough? Sounds like a great idea.

 

[Adebesi]

He's not particularly good in the transfer market. Not saying our signings have been bad but neither have they been great. It wasn't something he was renowned for before we got him either. Isn't that the main part of that role?

Seems like some kind of youth or development role would be more suitable.

 

[marjen]

He's not particularly good in the transfer market. Not saying our signings have been bad but neither have they been great. It wasn't something he was renowned for before we got him either. Isn't that the main part of that role?

Seems like some kind of youth or development role would be more suitable.

Also, he's not one for taking advantage of a huge scouting network by all accounts. Instead he prefers signing players he's had first hand experience with himself or no-brainers. Blind, Memphis, Romero, Schweinsteiger - all players he's coached. Schneiderlin, Di Maria (duh), Rojo - players he's met with his teams. By all accounts he is as careful and gutless in the transfer market as he is tactically. Minimizing risk instead of going for things with a huge upside.

Martial being the obvious exception, although it isn't like he was a completely unknown. A good decision to go for him at that intimidating price nevertheless.

 

[GBBQ]

I maintain that generally the signings made have been good (at least in theory in the case of Falcao and DiMaria) but he has either refused to play them enough or played them in a position or formation which did not suit them. That being said I think there are people better suited to DOF and LVG should probably just retire

 

[Classical Mechanic]

And so it proves again: in football you are only as good as your last result.

 

[bleedred]

Yeah, Mou as a manager and LVG as DOF...That wont affect either's ego at all....

 

[VeevaVee]

This is the guy that rates Fellaini you know?

 

[Honest John]

Dutch Ogre Fired

Fine with me

 

[NoLogo]

And so it proves again: in football you are only as good as your last result.

I can't remember him ever being good in the transfer market though. Even during his prime at Ajax his strongest aspect was bringing through promising youngsters and not buying great players that fit into his philosophy.

Like I said if you want to make him head of youth development I'd say you might have a case here but not as a DOF.

 

[Kostur]

Hasn't he been one at Ajax and it didn't work out because he wants to control everything while the coach might have, rightfully so, objections about it?

How about he finally fecks off from this club and we can somehow wipe out any evidence of his existence? And no, this is at no point a kneejerk reaction.

 

[Sky1981]

Definitely not enthused by this idea. Repost from January:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/get-a-director-of-football-in-now.413962/page-3

Van Gaal is stubborn in his beliefs, and intrusive to a fault - which is exactly why he fell out with the powers that be at other clubs (quite frequently). Hasn't happened at United, and that's fair enough - but, there's no saying what kind of professional chemistry he'll have with the potential new manager, plus he hasn't exactly proven his credentials as a squad builder at the club. And, you do get the sense that maybe he's fed up with what has transpired over the past few months, and half his mind is preoccupied with his villa in Algarve. He isn't some spring chicken who will 'focus on the structure and long term squad management' - a bit too long in the tooth for that, and with him, you'll just end up adding someone who might not be youthful enough to see the process out through the next decade or so - which is what you ideally need from a long term perspective.

Anyway, with regards to the DOF appointment bit, I think it's best that either:

—The new manager (or head coach) has some sort of input into who the DOF should be - this is to minimize potential bickering.
Or
—Appoint a DOF, and let him pick a manager of his choice - someone he has a strong relationship with him, or atleast someone who shares the same vision and approach to football.

Instead of forcing Louis on the new guy. That's just to ensure that the manager, and the DOF are on the same page, and because they helped appoint the other person - they'll atleast get along. One of the most common themes that lead to a fractured DOF + head coach combo is them falling out with each other because of a difference in ideology, blame shifting, difference of opinion when it comes to transfer targets (what if Van Gaal wants to add a left footed CB, and the Head Coach wants a right footed centerback who's qualitatively superior; or Van Gaal wants to retain Kraft, but the Head Coach wants Neuer?) - what have you. And it's extremely important for them to pull in one direction, instead of constantly being at loggerheads (which will likely be the case with Van Gaal given his prickly personality, and the impression that he can be 'difficult to work with' - something that has been brought up even at United). Don't bank on Van Gaal keeping his trap shut, and focusing on his own job. Based off of his history, he'll definitely try to influence the team - undermining the manager in the process. I'd rather someone who stayed in the shadows and went about his job in a nondescript fashion (aiding the manager, instead of micromanaging the details) than someone who has a propensity for tooting his own horn, and acquiring credit for minutiae.

What's the Job Description of DOF?

 

[Bwuk]

No chance. Get him as far away as possible from the club.

 

[Macern]

@Footyislife sorry, but this idea is just mental. Do you know what a DoF does? He's in charge of all the transfer activity. He decides who comes and goes, and the manager may not necessarily have his say. If we get in Mourinho, arguably the best manager in the world when it comes to buying the right first team players, would you really want van Gaal as the one in charge of the transfers? The same van Gaal who sold Hernandez and Welbeck and didn't really replace them, and bought poor players like Darmian, Falcao, Schneiderlin etc..

 

[Honest John]

What's the Job Description of DOF?

Earn lots of dosh
choose signings
blame manager when they don't work out.

piece of piss

 

[devilish]

If we appoint someone from the inside we might as well appoint someone who actually won something with United ie SAF.

 

[Invictus]

What's the Job Description of DOF?

Depends on the caliber of manager you appoint, and the amount of control the manager desires. Which is why the job description of a DOF is hard to summarize, because each club would have their own qualifiers to maintain a balance between the relative authority of the manager, and the DOF. In an ideal world, you wouldn't want to wrest a lot of control out of the hands of the manager like Mourinho (if we do appoint him, that is). A setup where the DOF is slightly hands off in the day-to-day running of the club, but liaisons with the manager and the scouting team, draws up a viable medium term strategy with the manager (and the vision they want to implement), tries to find systemic fits for said strategy, and in general - tries to make the manager's life easier than being to in-your-face is the best IMO. You have two men with expertise in certain areas - put their heads together, and find common ground - which is why their interpersonal and professional relationship is important. That's not say they should agree on everything in yes-man fashion (because that can be counterproductive too), but there shouldn't be a lot of friction - if there is, sooner of later - it will manifest itself in the form of rows, and blame shifting between the two parties - which is why a lot of DOF appointments end up failing.

 

[Adebesi]

The guy is old and promised his wife he would retire. This idea is a non starter IMO, let him go.

 

[2 man midfield]

LVG as DOF?

Ffs

 

[::sonny::]

 

[Xaviesta]

I'm not a big fan of the DOF model but van Gaal as a DOF is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Raees]

He'd be an awful director of football. An unmitigated disaster.

To be a DOF, you need to be incredibly selfless.. your work needs to be very behind the scenes and you have to be quite subservient to the managers needs. Also I wouldn't trust this guy to recruit players for us.

He can spot youth players and gives them chances.. but after the way he has treated Pereira.. I wouldn't want a guy who hates flair players as much as he does in charge.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Are there many ex managers out there who have become good directors? Is there any top manager who has made this transition from active duties and 24/7 control of the first team to a more supervising/advising role within the club? I don't know, they say some ex players can't become good managers, although they have good ideas, because they can't kill the player in them. I'll rephrase that and say that managers who like to have absolute control over the footballing matters of the club they work for probably won't make successful DoF because they can't kill the manager in them.

It's not only about LvG, whose failure in that particular role led to his bad relationship with Koeman too, i wouldn't fancy the idea of Sir Alex having that role either. That is simply because i can't imagine Fergie being content with a behind the scenes role in the club. I'm not talking about all the bull in the press about his desire for power etc. He simply loves the club very much and he also loves this job very much. If it wasn't for old age and family matters, he would leave his final breath at Carrington. Once you put him in the thereabouts of the first team activities, he'll probably want to involve himself more.

I like distinctive roles within any organization. I believe that by clearly defining where each individual's rights and responsibilities start and finish and by securing that no one's crossing these lines is the best way to move forward. So, an ex manager trying to interfere with the active manager's decisions doesn't sound like a good idea. Furthermore, i think that one of Woodaward's main problems is that he can't assess the first team issues as well as the marketing deals. It seems that he's not getting good advise either.

I've said it before, there's nothing wrong with the Sirs wanting someone who will respect the club's tradition at the edge of the bench. But if they truly believe that this particular squad is good enough to justify the decision to give the job to someone like Giggs and then throw that someone into the deep end, against Pep-Klopp-Wenger-Conte, then i'm afraid we do have a problem. In the same manner, if LvG advocates the promotion of many more youngsters into the first team instead of injecting some real quality in the first team, that will be a problem too not only for Mourinho but for any new manager.

I'd want a DoF, if the man in the role would be able to provide us with a cold view, a "doctor's opinion" of where we truly stand in relation to our rivals and what is the best route for us.