On the other hand, Moyes never lost at home to a newly promoted side and never went 8 games without a win. The first half against Arsenal was also worst than anything under Moyes.
The less said about LvG's CL campaign, the better.
LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!
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The less said about LvG's CL campaign, the better.
wow, it's that bad! I mean how on earth we didn't sack him after getting this far. I repeat what I said many times already, the only hope left is that we are lining up a manager and LVG is already sacked but remains just to avoid Giggs taking over which might put more pressure on next manager
That sounds so bad, we are now finding comfort on our ability to have a chance before the game.
Level on points with Liverpool. They have sacked the manager that took them to the brink of a PL championship and yet we still think LVG is our man! Unbelievable.
I can't believe some people actually believe some rubbish RI conspiracy theory. Maybe this thread title needs its qualifiers back. A fan site is a reliable source for feck all, even if they do it on Twitter.
If there really is a power struggle going on between Fergie and Woodward (which seems unlikely, given Woodward is the one with an actual meaningful position in the club, as well as being the owners' man), why on Earth would RI of all people be the ones to know about it?
If there really is a power struggle going on between Fergie and Woodward (which seems unlikely, given Woodward is the one with an actual meaningful position in the club, as well as being the owners' man), why on Earth would RI of all people be the ones to know about it?
Now it's Bournemouth, Norwich and Stoke. Not many people will honestly say they are confident of beating Swansea on Saturday.
Moyes era: We won 18, Drew 4 and Lost 4 against the 13 teams below us i.e. discounting "the top 7 teams in the PL". That's 58 points from a possible 78.
Last year: We won 14, drew 6 and lost 6 against the the same contingent of teams. That's 48 points from a possible 78.
This year: We've won 5, drawn 4 and lost 4 against the same teams. That's 19 points from a possible 39. (simple maths dictates we achieve 38 points from 78).
Whilst we have improved quite a bit against the top 7 (City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Pool and Everton), our record against mid to lower table opposition is embarrassing.
Wow what an accomplishment, can't wait to see the reaction when we fail to do so!
Actually simple maths dictates that we will achieve between 19pts and 58pts included.
And spent £300million doing it, which Moyes didn't!
Looks like we are trusting him with another 30m on Anderson as well!
That's our competition now. Relegation candidates and 2 of those scored more points than us.
If we continue at our current rate (of drawing and losing every game, having dominated possession), we will be in a relegation battle by the end of the season.
Probably the one position we don't critically need someone.
Doesn't matter who he buys he'll turn them to shite anyway.
It's come to the stage were I'm just posting in this thread and hoping it will have some kind of cosmic influence on what will happen.
I wish Fergie would ring me and tell me what their plans are. I don't think I want to talk to Woodward.
I wish Fergie would ring me and tell me what their plans are. I don't think I want to talk to Woodward.
Maybe because he was the best candidate then and he only wanted 3 years. Or, contrary to popular opinion, the board has a plan and is clear that LVG would merely be a transition and 3 years is a reasonable period for that?
Exactly. We can't just cherry pick a handful that fit the case but ignore the hundreds that don't.
Or even get us back to the TOP 4 for that matter. I don't know why fans seem to think that Mourinho will sort of guarantee a TOP four finish or a title challenge this season.
I share the same sentiment. It's only halfway through the season, while it seems to get bleaker I feel we can evaluate at the end of the season to get a clearer picture. In any case, who else is out there that can guarantee a turn-around this season?
Who else will be out there if the club waits until the summer and then looks to evaluate? One of the top coaches in the world is available now.
True but you can't deny it doesn't happen. Politics can be very murky.
Loch Ness is murky. That doesn't mean there's a monster in it.
We could name so many, yet everyone would be rejected like you reject Mourinho using some excuse, because it is all hypothetcial and it is easier to play devil's advocate.
What makes you think we can get someone at the end of the season?. Who would be available then, assuming Guardiola goes to city?
I don't reject Mourinho. I ask a genuine question. Neither am I saying LVG is the right man.
I am questioning why fans think Mourinho is the best option now. Can he GUARANTEE top four THIS season? Can he GUARANTEE a title challenge THIS season? Notice I only speak of this season, only because it is halfway. Oh I have no doubt Mourinho is a winner.
If Mourinho in now guarantees the above, get him in. Else, sticking with LVG till the end of THIS season is the path of least resistance.
As for who is available end of this season or the next? Who knows? Managers get hired and fired all the time. Did anyone think in May that Mourinho would be available this December?
I genuinely don't know. But then again, no one knew in May that Mourinho would be available in December.
Nothing is a guarantee in football. Like you said, Nobody expected chelsea/Mou to fail so badly this season. Could he fail were as well?. Sure.
But LVG is not getting any results at the moment and many feel at this point, Mourinho could not do any worse (again that's just an opinion)
Just the idea that there may not be anyone else better available, shouldn't be a reason for LVG to continue on. What if we lose the next 5 games, still there is no one better right, should the club still continue in the path of least resistance and wait till someone who can "GURANTEE" success turns up.
No, because that's ridiculous. At this point, the team needs new ideas and a bit of shakeup. We have seen that in so many cases, where a new manger comes in and the players start doing well. Yes, it is a risk bringing in a new manager at this time, but we have to think about salvaging the season, and ask the question whether LVG can stop the rut. If he cannot, why not gamble with someone, rather than wait for another write off season like Moyes'.
Exactly. Since there is no guarantee whatsoever, there is similarly no guarantee that LVG will be outside TOP four this season as we are only halfway through.
Bear in mind, though I am not saying LVG will turn it around, I am merely raising a point that this could be how the board views it.
But really, Who knows what the board is thinking or planning? Just it seems pretty clear that Mourinho is not on consideration. What we are wishing for as fans in the short term may be very different to what the board is willing to accept in the same period.
Its not a guarantee, but the odds are against him. It is never a guarantee till we are mathematically out of it. But like I have said so many times, if the board is waiting on us to be mathematically out of it, then its ridiculous on their part.
Mind you, I would still want him gone, if he barely gets us to Top 4, as I disagree with the notion that we should see Top 4 as the objective for the season, but that's an entirely different argument.
Do you believe they are correct in acting that way?.
Why should there be a difference between the fans' and the boards view on success?. Isn't that what has been the problem at Arsenal all these years. Why should the board not meet the expectation of the fans, whether it is short term or long term?. I mean in terms of success, because my view of the borads action seems to be that as long as LVG takes them to Top 4 this season, they are fine with it, whereas as fans that is not enough for us, specially considering we were knocked out of a poor CL group and out of legue cup to championship side, AGAIN.
This sort of relates to my point about the possible different views between the fans and Board. Fans may disagree but the board may think top four is good enough for the years LVG are in charge.
If I have to be completely honest, I'd doff my fan hat and don my 'management' one. And from that perspective, just purely mine of course, I won't be happy but such is life and business is it not? Stock markets go up and down all the time. People get hired and fired all the time. Today's winners may be tomorrow's losers and vice versa. A lot of what happens between 'official periods' of evaluation is noise. And sports is more so because it is largely irrational.
Anyway I have digressed. Succinctly, From the view of a fan I am very pissed off. From the view of a business, decision to stick with LVG may not be the best, but considering several scenarios it may the least detrimental, for now.
Oh in the long run, I don't think there is much difference. I believe that the board and fans want the club to be successful. And that ultimately means winning trophies which translates into more commercial revenue.
The difficulty is how that is achieved and when. Fans, especially United fans who are used to winning, want the success to continue and want the club to get back to winning ways (and I mean being champions) as soon as possible. The board could be thinking: steady the ship, three years without jeopardising commercials (that likely means minimum top four), then a league win in the next 2 Seasons and a treble hopefully in the next 5.
The point is we don't know, but we are working ourselves into a frenzy, no?
What I meant was, the team was attacked in the media after Stoke for apparently downing tools, maybe collectively as a team they had something to prove, for themselves players (and not for the manager himself)
what a post?!Er Moyes and LVG 'guaranteed top 4' to us (by the fact they had it in their contract! 'I'll get top4, if not you can sack me').
Ps I still think we'd get Top 4 with Mourinho and cash in Jan.
Mate, read the post again. I don't say LVG will guarantee TOP 4. I believe he will be sacked if he doesn't.
Er Moyes and LVG 'guaranteed top 4' to us (by the fact they had it in their contract! 'I'll get top4, if not you can sack me').
Ps I still think we'd get Top 4 with Mourinho and cash in Jan.
I simply offer an alternate view as to why the board isn't rushing to sign Mourinho up. I know there are no guarantees in life or Football.
It is often human nature though, to stick to the devil you know than the devil you don't.
As many have mentioned, you cannot guarantee anything in football. For all we know, we could go unbeaten the second half of the season and win the title and FA cup an EL with LVG in charge.
However we need to look at the chances of that happening and base our assumptions/calculations based on the game we are playing now. Right now we don't look like scoring or winning a game. So what makes you think that this will change. We have all been critical of the board for being reactive so far. I hope to God they change and take a step before it is too late. The path of least resistance is the easiest always, but it seldom leads to your destination.
It seems the only way. But can we look a little further? Too little far, I think.
Self belief's the answer, and not another drink. - Human League
only 4 points ahead of Everton.
They are 11th.
They are 11th.
We are behind Crystal Palace.
At the same time, there are at least these examples. I'm tired of saying this, but flip the question. How many clubs are there who have stood by their manager and seen sustained success? None. Nada. Nothing at all (barring Fergie). Fergie was a one-off. Get over it. No manager lasts since it takes a different type of steel and will to successfully handle all that pressure all the time, to continually build and rebuild and keep doing it and also to keep all your players motivated, to keep abreast with the changes in football and keep adjusting all the time. Look no further than Wenger for another example of things. With any other manager, Arsenal would surely have a couple of PL titles to their name the last decade!
Spot on. Hit the nail bang on the head.
No guarantee, sure. But in football, as in business, you look at trends. There was no guarantee that Moyes wouldn't suddenly lead us to a PL win the next season, but the trends were clear. The team was struggling and regressing and so he had to go. So, what's different now? Nothing at all. The trend is that the team is clearly regressing and is struggling. How many examples are there (again, barring Fergie circa 1989) when a manager has struggled so badly and then suddenly turned it all around to lead his team to unprecedented success?
I'm a consultant and so shall give you a business analogy. At times, companies appoint an external CEO. Each time, the CEO is carefully chosen by the Board. Many on the Board know nothing about the company's actual business, but all have a sense of finance and can assess CVs. Each candidate has exceptional qualities and one gets chosen. If he fails, the Board moves and appoints a new CEO. The sacked one may go on to lead other companies to glory and all that proves is that he just wasn't the right man for this particular company. His half-season at Chelsea hasn't made Jose a poor manager, just like his stint at United doesn't wipe away LvG's past glories. It's just that both were misfits at this juncture for their respective clubs.
And Palace are more exciting to watch .Level on points with the Dippers too, with a trip to Anfield to come.
If we have a January as poor as our December, we'll be in the bottom half of the table soon enough.
Would be ironic that of the two footballing men at our club, one might be angling for control. I still don't believe it.
Urgh.
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