LVG: the inside story

Kag

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I don't blame the players. They have given it their all and I've never thought any of them were giving less than 100%. It falls to the manager to manage them in a way that enables him to get the best out of them. LVG has failed spectacularly at this side of things.
Is anybody really disputing this? I hate the suggestion that our players don't try, for one.

The issue is with the manner of the leaks and the high profile people suspected of pedalling them.

We need the next manager to enjoy the full support of people at the club and I fear he may not get that.
 

JPRouve

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Ok, I understand. But first the article states that voicing the concerns face to face was not a good solution either for the players. So what is good enough for them to not feel insulted but still at least listen to the staff's advice?
Well, I would guess that if a manager feels the need to criticize his players all the time, something is wrong tactically and he should try to put his players in roles that suit them. That's his job after all.
 

Kag

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Well, you can't have it both ways. You criticised me for saying that Giggs, as Assistant Manager, will just be following Van Gaal's orders - which to me is a perfectly logical conclusion.
Van Gaal's full staff network will follow his command. Giggs included. And they all share responsibility for the failure of the team.

What's interesting is the widespread reports that are in favour of Giggs and the role he's played under Van Gaal. Who is sending them to the press? It's a valid question.
 

Dr. Funkenstein

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People who don't know LVG and his history with players shouldn't jump too quickly to conclusions here. His man-management is one the poorest for any manager out there. Just ask any player he managed at Barcelona, Bayern or the Dutch squad.
They already have been asked, but appearently you didn't like the answers.

Also, it is very obvious that our downfall with lvg was basically down to his 'philosophy' not the players. The players were quite obviously executing his poor 'philosophy' on the field, nothing wrong with the execution. It's the philosophy that failed. Also our players showed a lot of spirit in all their games. People trash talking Rooney should have a word with themselves after his moment of individual determination (not van gaal's impotent philosophy) was what won us the FA cup two days ago.
No, he was piss poor, an embarassment. The one time he didn't just give the ball away he got lost and the only thing he could do was to cross it, the cross left Fellaini and Mata with a lot of work to do, but they did it. Imagen what this game would have been like with a playmaker who wasn't as predictable in what he was trying to do and would actually manage to get the ball to a player in the same outfit.
 

Chesterlestreet

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If it's true, it happened after the players told him that his constant criticisms were damaging the team confidence and moral. And on that part the problem could be that like Klose admitted, our players were not able to see on the field what LVG was asking them on the videos.
That may very well be, but the question is - again - how you handle it. How would you or I handle it? The description of what they (we don't know how many of them this applies to, just to make that clear) did is detailed: They found a way to open his e-mails without actually reading what he had to say. I find it hard to spin that in any positive direction.

If the man's a maniac who can't be reasoned with at all - and you've tried your best - you take it upstairs. You get the people above him involved. Did they do this? Perhaps they did for all we know, but the impression the club as such gave after the worst period (around Christmas) came and went, was not one of mutiny and unrest: It would rather appear as though the players kept going through the motions, pretending to read LVG's little memos whilst not being on board with his "philosophy" in reality. Speculation and smoke - pretty much. But I repeat that I find it hard to spin any of these revelations in favour of the players.

LVG seems like a hard taskmaster who has grown old in the service, no longer able to control his troops. That's on him - but it doesn't leave the troops blameless.
 

newgiz

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What responsibilities and failures are those then? He's Assistant Manager.

Would Woodward's assistant (whoever that may be) be responsible for any mistakes Woodward makes? If you were assistant manager to someone would you be happy being held responsible for their poor performance?
An assistant's job is to inform of the failures of his superior and provide solutions. If he hasn't done that then he has failed at his responsibilities. If Giggs loves the club so much and has nothing but the utmost care for the club, then he should have strongly opposed the changes and 'philosophy' LvG was implementing.

Absolving him of any wrongs that have happened over the past 2 regimes is not correct.
 

26andahalfyears

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If Giggs can cheat on someone whom he has shared the same roof and built a family with for more than a decade, it isn't hard to imagine he's pulling this sort of shenanigans on a complete stranger whom he just met two years ago. Reports now circulating that he is set to turn down a coaching role from Mou. It shows that he really only aims for the managerial role. Van Gaal has been betrayed.
 

bonsaiboy

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I hate the suggestion that our players don't try, for one.
I don't think it's that they don't try. I think it's that when things aren't going well, their heads go down. If these stories are to be believed that'll be because they know that their proscribed tactics aren't working, and they'll get torn to shreds if they try something different.

What I think has been missing from our team in the last few seasons is adaptability. LVG is a proponent that there's some 'perfect' form of football that's basically unplayable, and if his team gets it right they're almost guaranteed to win. But in reality any team with stamina and pressing ability can counter it. Sure, we'll have a lot of possession but it's really easy to prevent us from making chances, and then it only takes a mistake to concede a goal. What we used to be good at was reacting to a situation by making changes, leaving the opposition unprepared. Part of this requires having good leadership both off and on the field; off the field it's all about the analysis of the situation and making those tactical changes. On the field it's about motivation, and that's also been lacking.

No manager is going to be able to come in and put all this right, and even if they do, we'll still have off-days. The hope is that those are the exception rather than the norm.
 

Rednotdead

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An assistant's job is to inform of the failures of his superior and provide solutions. If he hasn't done that then he has failed at his responsibilities. If Giggs loves the club so much and has nothing but the utmost care for the club, then he should have strongly opposed the changes and 'philosophy' LvG was implementing.

Absolving him of any wrongs that have happened over the past 2 regimes is not correct.
Maybe he did all of the above, we don't know. Would he have trumpeted it to the media? If absolving him of any wrongs is not correct, so is crucifying him without a jot of evidence.
 

grahamo

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One source close to the players claims that Van Gaal’s strict regime of ‘training at 8.30, sent to rooms for a couple hours rest, training after lunch, back for video meetings and tactics discussion, back to rooms, supper of toast and then bed at half ten - every day for 14 days’ left the squad shattered and ill-prepared for the start of the 2014-15 season, which saw United endure their worst opening to a campaign for 25 years.
It must have been tough having to report to training at 8.30, then sleep, then lunch. Its crazy how handy they have it. They should think about the people working 40 hours a week on a building site or factory floor paying a sizeable chunk of their hard earned to watch multi millionaire spoiled brats putting in half assed performances every week
 

Nighteyes

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Is anybody really disputing this? I hate the suggestion that our players don't try, for one.

The issue is with the manner of the leaks and the high profile people suspected of pedalling them.

We need the next manager to enjoy the full support of people at the club and I fear he may not get that.
Have you not been reading the forum? Players have been criticized left, right and centre for not being bothered and not showing passion. I've seen nothing to suggest the players haven't given it their all for lVG despite him being clueless.
 

Red Comet

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Reading through all these just makes me think the players are extremely unprofessional - can't take criticisms, and don't want to work hard for the manager.
 

Orange

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Reading through all these just makes me think the players are extremely unprofessional - can't take criticisms, and don't want to work hard for the manager.
Exactly. As a player you should be constantly trying to improve yourself, doesn't matter what age you are. It appears that there are multiple rotten apples in the squad who apparently can't take a simple e-mail with points to focus on and rather be lazy than improve.
 

Crackers

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Exactly. As a player you should be constantly trying to improve yourself, doesn't matter what age you are. It appears that there are multiple rotten apples in the squad who apparently can't take a simple e-mail with points to focus on and rather be lazy than improve.
I would argue that the mentality put on the squad over the past few years has weakened their attitude. They need a siege mentality, and need to believe that it's "us versus the rest". Maureen is the perfect man for that, and if he can do it I imagine the squad will pick up quite quickly.
 

Adisa

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Our players don't have any backbone. They want to be told they're amazing all the time. I think we need a clear out of the old guard. They want Giggs as manager. They want someone to baby them.
 

Orange

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I would argue that the mentality put on the squad over the past few years has weakened their attitude. They need a siege mentality, and need to believe that it's "us versus the rest". Maureen is the perfect man for that, and if he can do it I imagine the squad will pick up quite quickly.
I always liked to believe that players are not children who need to be told to do their homework. As a professional football player and grown-up I would assume that you have the desire to improve yourself all the time, and would not need multiple kicks in the butt or certain circumstances in order to do so.
 

Crackers

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I always liked to believe that players are not children who need to be told to do their homework. As a professional football player and grown-up I would assume that you have the desire to improve yourself all the time, and would not need multiple kicks in the butt or certain circumstances in order to do so.
Everyone has emotions though. Watching the football they played was awful, but imagine training for it? Factor in Moyes and LVG's management styles and you could argue that a lot of players need to be encouraged from time to time.
 

Tincanalley

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They already have been asked, but appearently you didn't like the answers.

No, he was piss poor, an embarassment. The one time he didn't just give the ball away he got lost and the only thing he could do was to cross it, the cross left Fellaini and Mata with a lot of work to do, but they did it. Imagen what this game would have been like with a playmaker who wasn't as predictable in what he was trying to do and would actually manage to get the ball to a player in the same outfit.
Brilliant :(
 

Danny1982

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No, he was piss poor, an embarassment. The one time he didn't just give the ball away he got lost and the only thing he could do was to cross it, the cross left Fellaini and Mata with a lot of work to do, but they did it. Imagen what this game would have been like with a playmaker who wasn't as predictable in what he was trying to do and would actually manage to get the ball to a player in the same outfit.
Bullsh*t.



They already have been asked, but appearently you didn't like the answers.
You shouldn't talk about something you don't know much about. I know Van Gaal and have followed him for years before he joined United. Here is what I said about him before we signed him.
1- Klopp
2- Ancelotti
3- Mourinho
4- Simeone
5- Hiddink

Not a fan of Van Gaal, because of his personality and the way he handles stars, and not a fan of Guardiola because I don't think we have the squad he needs, and I haven't seen him yet perform equally well in a different type of squad (and we're not in a position to take another major risk right now).
Nope. Van Gaal is actually known for having poor relationships with players, especially the stars.

I really hope we don't sign him. He may succeed for a season or two, but his tenures usually end in disasters. Not a fan of him, and I really hope we don't appoint him.
Of course when we ended up signing him, I still supported him and wanted him to be given his fair chance to prove himself, and only became 'LVG out' at the beginning of this year, when it became obvious that he won't succeed at United, but these problems are far from being new to him.
 

Dr. Funkenstein

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Bullsh*t.
That's not my rating. I guess it must be wishfull thinking with the EC coming, it can't be based on his passing, moving, tackling or shooting.

You shouldn't talk about something you don't know much about. I know Van Gaal and have followed him for years before he joined United. Here is what I said about him before we signed him.
Well I've followed him since 1989 and that you already talked shit 2 years ago doesn't mean your bullshit has become anything different now.

Of course when we ended up signing him, I still supported him and wanted him to be given his fair chance to prove himself, and only became 'LVG out' at the beginning of this year, when it became obvious that he won't succeed at United, but these problems are far from being new to him.
He's never had problems with players like Schweinsteiger, Overmars, Litmanen, Kluivert, Rijkaard, Möller, Robben, Van Persie, Strootman etc. These are team players who want to become better players. Selfish soon to be has beens like Rivaldo and Toni are out very quickly. Good riddance if you ask me, if a player prefers becoming top scorer over winning silverware because of personal (commercial) intrests he shouldn't be paid by a club.