Oh so Dawson can do positivity as well
Marcel Sabitzer - (Use the Player Performance thread to discuss his matchday performances)
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I find it tough to imagine we won't keep him. Worst case he's Fred with shooting ability and a bit more reliable on the ball in his own half. So, if we do sign a big midfielder, we can presumably sell Fred for say 15M to a Serie A side and buy Sabitzer for 25M. And if we don't sign one or just sign a DM, then he makes sense too.
Yeah IF Erik has the necessary finances we need a partner for Casa, backup DM and hopefully keep Sabitzer too but won't sign 3
Yeah, also my guess is Mainoo gets a chance for some minutes as 5th CB, along with Sancho as a backup 10.
At gunpoint, I'd predict this:
So it's:
Bruno (Eriksen, Sancho)
Sabitzer/Eriksen (Fred)
Casemiro (DM)
though if Qatar buys us then make Rice, De Jong or Caicedo the DM buy and we don't buy Sabitzer.
It’d be great if we could keep him permanently, providing he wants to stay of course. He’ll definitely get game time and his versatility will ensure that.
For decent money it would be no brainer, we need squad depth in CM and we would be selling Scott
Only if he's not much more expensive than what we can extract from Fred or McTominay sale, I would consider. Just because we may have a new owner who allow us to spend our money, doesn't mean we should just splash money, and get rinsed. Overpaying one player may have consequences.
Sabitzer has a lot to prove whether he can adapt to the PL, let alone become a starter or first choice back up.
Sabitzer has a lot to prove whether he can adapt to the PL, let alone become a starter or first choice back up.
Oh yeah this next three months is audition
If he does well (which I believe he will) then it makes sense. Sell Donny and McTominay. Replace with Sabitzer and a new midfielder in the summer.
Fred for £15m, fecking hell
he's not some random player from Coventry CityNeed backup DM and partner for Casa in summer,that doesn't include keeping Sabitzer too if it's possible however think it will one or the other buy the looks of it
Small, 29, will be in real trouble when he loses any mobility because that and his tenacity are his major qualities. If Sabitzer at 28 will cost a rumoured 25M or so, I think 15M is about right for Fred. Don't see him staying in the Prem and don't see a Serie A or La Liga team going up to 20M.Fred for £15m, fecking hell
Casemiro, De Jong, Ericksen, New CM.
We once had Scholes, Giggs, Carrick, Fletcher, Anderson as our midfielders, what we had last season was appalling and what we have this season is decent.
If we can, then sell Fred, Mctominay and Van De Beek and bring in De jong and another midfielder. A great young central midfielder is what we need along with De Jong if we can’t then just keep Fred or Sabitzer. This gives us a nice balance with four midfielders two over 30 and two The other side.
Fifth place can be for an academy player. I think Ten Hag knows we need a few more technical players hence the sabitzer interest.
We once had Scholes, Giggs, Carrick, Fletcher, Anderson as our midfielders, what we had last season was appalling and what we have this season is decent.
If we can, then sell Fred, Mctominay and Van De Beek and bring in De jong and another midfielder. A great young central midfielder is what we need along with De Jong if we can’t then just keep Fred or Sabitzer. This gives us a nice balance with four midfielders two over 30 and two The other side.
Fifth place can be for an academy player. I think Ten Hag knows we need a few more technical players hence the sabitzer interest.
It’s a straightforward decision, we sign Sabitzer on a permanent and add de Jong in the summer, partially financed by the sales of both Fred and McTominay.
Not that straightforward I'm afraid.
Sabitzer moved to us on loan because he didn't have a prominent role to get enough minutes at Bayern. If he's too impressive, Bayern may decide against selling him, asking an unreasonable fee. He knows he get chances now with Eriksen and VDB injuries. Getting FdJ and Eriksen back for new season, and it puts him in similar situation as he was with Bayern.
Not saying impossible, but definitely not straight forward with no purchase option with the loan.
Thats rather presumptuous, would Fred get in Coventrys team?Fred for £15m, fecking hell
Whether we should keep Sabitzer really depends on what role he can perform. Right now Fred is the best backup DM that we have got, just see the result. If Sabitzer, after 1-2 warm-up games, can fulfil the DM role, then he should be the 1st name on the procurement list.
If he is just another Box2Box MF, then we currently have 3 such players - Fred, McTom, Sabitzer. We definitely don't need 3, perhaps even 2 is too many. We need a backup DMF, period.
If he is just another Box2Box MF, then we currently have 3 such players - Fred, McTom, Sabitzer. We definitely don't need 3, perhaps even 2 is too many. We need a backup DMF, period.
Fact, he is twenty eight and the height of his powers so if we sign De Jong or any other bona fide starter he wont want to stay because he will be in a similar situation to the one he is in at Bayern. For the club it will be a case of either him or another CM because the CF signing will eat up all the funds and even if we get the Qataris they won't want to fall foul of the FA and PL so early in their reign and in the midst of the City scandal.
In my view spending about £250m in the summer will be the upper limit of what we can do, new ownership or not. Considering how essential a top number 9 will be for us I think, if he impresses, Sabitzer will make more sense as Casemiro's partner with Eriksen coming in against sides that can't overrun us in midfield or when we need a goal. Over a 60 game season Eriksen can start 20 and come in as a mid game change in another 20 which Sabitzer can start 40.
Say we spent £130m on Osimhen, we can sign Sabitzer and a young DM for a combined fee of £60m and then still have £60m to spend on a CB and David Raya. This, to me, would be more reasonable use of funds and see us come out next season with a deeper squad that isnt one injury/suspension away from a collapse in form and more solid squad with a striker primed to help us turn our periods of dominance into goals and points.
Kanté is small. Fernandinho was small. Makelele as well. Why should he lose his mobility at the age of 29? He is a Brazil international ffs. The amount of shit he gets, particularly after his horror show the last game, is way over the top. He has had superb performances recently and been vital to our wins over teams like Man City several times and PSG.
You must be out of your mind if you think Ten Hag will let Fred go for £15m. I agree that he shouldn't be a starter but he is a perfect squad player.
As for why Sabitzer should go for £25m, that's because he never plays and is 4th or 5th choice in midfield, and Bayern don't need him with Konrad Laimer (also from Leipzig) coming on a free in the summer.
It’s too early to say. We haven’t seen enough to tell if he’s of the required standard
Yeah long way to go yet
I could see Fred wanting to leave if we sign Sabitzer and a handpicked Ten Hag signing like De Jong or a new owner spending big and getting us Rice or Caicedo.
Comparing Fred to Makelele (different body type, position, skillset) is genuinely bizarre stuff.
I like Fred, but no way he gets 10 starts in half a season for Bayern. I just think Sabitzer's weaknesses on the ball deeper are less problematic than his, and Sabitzer has been and will be more productive in the final 3rd.
If we'd signed De Jong this summer too I think Fred would be pretty solidly secure here for a couple seasons with Bruno as the 10, Eriksen backing him up, De Jong as the main 8 and backup to Casemiro and Eriksen and Fred getting time as #8s.
But if we go into the summer with a smaller budget and Bruno, Eriksen, Sabitzer and Casemiro as our top 4 central midfielders, selling Fred, even for only 15M and using the money to get a proper shield for the back 4 makes a ton of sense. Someone who would have stopped the first goal against Leeds for instance.
Let's see if Sabitzer performs for us the rest of the season before even thinking about replacing Fred with him, yeah? Why should we be interested in Rice or Caicedo anyway? Neither of them are coming here to sit on the bench and play every 5th game while Casemiro is being rested, and having either of them next to Casemiro doesn't make sense with the way Ten Hag are trying to play. Frenkie de Jong should be target or someone similar to him.
Imagine calling what I said bizarre, after using "small" as an argument as to why a player isn't worth more than £15m. I wasn't comparing their skillset or positions. Of course Makelele is superior in every single way. I was just saying using a player's size on how much he should go for is ridiculous.
Selling Fred shouldn't be necessary, and especially not for £15m. He is a great squad player and always gives his all, and seems to be a great character in the dressing room. If you see the midfield depth of Chelsea, Man City, Real Madrid, Bayern München and PSG you can understand why selling Fred for £15m isn't worth it. High energy players are always great to keep if they can't be sold for much. If you're looking for a Casemiro replacement, have a look at Vinicius Souza from Espanyol currently on loan from Lommel SK (Belgian club in second division). 23 year old CDM from Brazil who we could probably get for peanuts considering the club he plays for. His defensive stats are very similar to Joao Palhinha and he is also great aerially. Might be worth a punt so we can have an actual second CDM instead of using one of our box-to-box midfielders there.
How has Sabitzer been getting on? I've been busy.
Fred has been totally misused at United for a long time due to Pogba having no mobility and there being a dearth of options in midfield. He's showing his quality now.
Well helped set up first goal on Sunday,looking forward to seeing him alongside Casa for first time next Thursday
I wouldn't be against us making the move for him permanent if he impresses,however we still need really a backup DM and more of a Barella type on the ball too.
Why are people so convinced he's a much better option than Fred as a squad player?
No basis to that yet. Let's see how he goes eh? He's had one okay game of football. We don't need to be desperate, its up to Sabitzer to prove he's a United footballer. He might be a Bayern player but ultimately he's way down the pecking order there.
No basis to that yet. Let's see how he goes eh? He's had one okay game of football. We don't need to be desperate, its up to Sabitzer to prove he's a United footballer. He might be a Bayern player but ultimately he's way down the pecking order there.
Already totally convinced. Fred loses the ball in the most dangerous position in the middle normally as the last man, at least 5 times more than Sabitzer, so he already a much much better option in the middle of the park.
No brainer actually
I'm surprised many rate him so high, I don't think he's been anything above average to be honest. He may be better than Fred but that doesn't necessarily make him good enough.
When its a choice between Sabitzer and Fred, its quite important to be better than Fred, I'd say.
He's more than good enough for the bench. But dont think anyone expects him to be a Bellingham replacement.
Personally I would say Sabitzer has played one full game of football in a United shirt and Fred has delivered some great performances for us over the years, albeit more inconsistent than I think anyone would like. That's what has actually happened with these two.
Yes, but if by next season we have to make the same choice I'd be disappointed to say the least.
Considering the adaptation period required by a lot of our new signings over the years…Sabitzer has acquitted himself brilliantly.
I was pleased to see this kind of level of signing, a really well-developed and well-rounded player with a good attitude at a good age. I agree, looking forward to seeing it. He's got a lot to prove and it's a big opportunity too, could be very astute.
New league, mad schedule, think he’s done ok so far. Plenty of games left for him to improve and impact things more.
Totally agree with this. He has been thrown into the fire and handled himself quite well. So far, so good on small sample size.
I really really like him a lot. There's something about him. I just wish we had him when he was younger
28 is prime age for a midfielder.....i suspect EtH will take hte option to buy him if he can from Munich IF the price isn't over the top
He's only 28 so not too old, would be a great bench option in the long run assuming we could afford him.