Marcus Rashford (Out) | Ornstein: United want to keep, will only consider substantial bids

Woziak

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Not ambitious enough? He's at the biggest club in the country earning 250-300k a week.

DO you think he should be pushing for a move to Man City or Barcelona on 400k a week?
There are rumours that with bonuses he could be on as much as £375k per week so financially he doesn’t need to go anywhere, what he needs to do is have the summer off get fit, realise he’s 27 soon and before he knows it his career will be over.

What he needs now is 4 consistent years where he scores 75-80 PL goals and becomes the starting inverted left winger for the next World Cup when he’s 28.
 

van Nistelrooy

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I love how people think the shaw magically improves Rashford.
I get the arguments for overlapping etc but shaw doesn’t improve Rashfords innate laziness
Not sure if it's considered the same thing, but I feel Rashford appears so lazy due to having a sense of entitlement where he doesn't need to do the hard graft because he's the face of the club and has had some past glories in a United shirt.

Only the likes of Messi, Ronaldo, Zlatan could get away with that when they're so prolific and lethal up top.
 

ayushreddevil9

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So I guess no point in attempting a serious conversation here
It's there for everyone to see. There are multiple clips over the internet showing how casual and lethargic he is when opponent has the ball. The opponent literally dribbled past him without having to do anything (think it was Barkely?)

If you choose to ignore what you're seeing then thats a different case altogether.
 

AlexUTD

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There are rumours that with bonuses he could be on as much as £375k per week so financially he doesn’t need to go anywhere, what he needs to do is have the summer off get fit, realise he’s 27 soon and before he knows it his career will be over.

What he needs now is 4 consistent years where he scores 75-80 PL goals and becomes the starting inverted left winger for the next World Cup when he’s 28.
It is alittle wierd that Rashford, Martial and other players play well and seems to work hard right before their contract runs out. Get new contract and their form falls off a cliff.

Now we stuck with Rashford with a bloated wage and he cries everytime supporters wants higher standards on his performances and he gets triggered cause supporters questions him about when he go out partying in Ireland.

The picture that comes to mind when he cries is this.

 

Rojofiam

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It's there for everyone to see. There are multiple clips over the internet showing how casual and lethargic he is when opponent has the ball. The opponent literally dribbled past him without having to do anything (think it was Barkely?)

If you choose to ignore what you're seeing then thats a different case altogether.
I’m asking you a genuine question, if it’s not laziness what is it? Arrogance? Tactical?

as the other poster says it’s not hard to see in every match.
You choose to ignore several things.

No manager has ever called him out for laziness unless I forgot about something. No manager has benched him for similar reasons either. You really think Rashford has played under 5 different managers now and all of them subordinated themselves for him whilst he was ignoring their instructions? This idea gets even less realistic when you remember ETH has benched Rashford himself for being a few minutes late to a team meeting.

It's also very often a tactical instruction for your best and furthest upward player to conserve energy and don't drop deep, as funny as you might find this. When you win the ball back and can launch a quick transition or counter attack, do you want Rashford to be next his fullback, helping him near his own box, or do you want him near the halfway line to receive a ball from Bruno?

And before you tell me Rashford isn't good enough to be a "luxury" player, as I've got that type of answer to this before: it's tied to tactics, not the player's level. Just because Rashford isn't Messi or even Mbappé, that doesn't mean he isn't allowed to do something the manager probably asks from him anyway. And he's still one of the best wingers in the Premier League purely because of his pace, power, ball-carrying and ball striking as well. What I just described can be applied to any level as well, from the Premier League all the way down to Sunday league football.
 

Malons

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It's those tactics that tell him to look clueless every time he gets the ball at his feet that are killing him, poor love.
 

Malons

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If he was told to conserve energy, would there not be dozens of examples of him going like balls in matches, applying all his conserved energy in matches to awesome affect?

Unless he's told to conserve energy but silly Billy Ten Hag forgets to tell him to take the reigns off so he conserves energy just to slowly walk off the pitch at the end of the game?

The conspiracy that exists around Rashford, and the excuses, are pitiful.
 

golden_blunder

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You choose to ignore several things.

No manager has ever called him out for laziness unless I forgot about something. No manager has benched him for similar reasons either. You really think Rashford has played under 5 different managers now and all of them subordinated themselves for him whilst he was ignoring their instructions? This idea gets even less realistic when you remember ETH has benched Rashford himself for being a few minutes late to a team meeting.

It's also very often a tactical instruction for your best and furthest upward player to conserve energy and don't drop deep, as funny as you might find this. When you win the ball back and can launch a quick transition or counter attack, do you want Rashford to be next his fullback, helping him near his own box, or do you want him near the halfway line to receive a ball from Bruno?

And before you tell me Rashford isn't good enough to be a "luxury" player, as I've got that type of answer to this before: it's tied to tactics, not the player's level. Just because Rashford isn't Messi or even Mbappé, that doesn't mean he isn't allowed to do something the manager probably asks from him anyway. And he's still one of the best wingers in the Premier League purely because of his pace, power, ball-carrying and ball striking as well. What I just described can be applied to any level as well, from the Premier League all the way down to Sunday league football.
Sorry I just don’t buy it. When he’s “on” like last season he wasn’t strolling around taking a nice Sunday walk, half as much as he’s been doing this season? When Ross Barkley walked past him with the ball, he barely made any effort to intercept. What’s he conserving his energy for? Pressing? He does less that everyone else.
Our team cannot afford to carry passengers and this season that’s exactly what he was
 

ayushreddevil9

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You choose to ignore several things.

No manager has ever called him out for laziness unless I forgot about something. No manager has benched him for similar reasons either. You really think Rashford has played under 5 different managers now and all of them subordinated themselves for him whilst he was ignoring their instructions? This idea gets even less realistic when you remember ETH has benched Rashford himself for being a few minutes late to a team meeting.

It's also very often a tactical instruction for your best and furthest upward player to conserve energy and don't drop deep, as funny as you might find this. When you win the ball back and can launch a quick transition or counter attack, do you want Rashford to be next his fullback, helping him near his own box, or do you want him near the halfway line to receive a ball from Bruno?

And before you tell me Rashford isn't good enough to be a "luxury" player, as I've got that type of answer to this before: it's tied to tactics, not the player's level. Just because Rashford isn't Messi or even Mbappé, that doesn't mean he isn't allowed to do something the manager probably asks from him anyway. And he's still one of the best wingers in the Premier League purely because of his pace, power, ball-carrying and ball striking as well. What I just described can be applied to any level as well, from the Premier League all the way down to Sunday league football.

Please explain this and tell me this is tactics.
 

Oranges038

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You choose to ignore several things.

No manager has ever called him out for laziness unless I forgot about something. No manager has benched him for similar reasons either. You really think Rashford has played under 5 different managers now and all of them subordinated themselves for him whilst he was ignoring their instructions? This idea gets even less realistic when you remember ETH has benched Rashford himself for being a few minutes late to a team meeting.

It's also very often a tactical instruction for your best and furthest upward player to conserve energy and don't drop deep, as funny as you might find this. When you win the ball back and can launch a quick transition or counter attack, do you want Rashford to be next his fullback, helping him near his own box, or do you want him near the halfway line to receive a ball from Bruno?

And before you tell me Rashford isn't good enough to be a "luxury" player, as I've got that type of answer to this before: it's tied to tactics, not the player's level. Just because Rashford isn't Messi or even Mbappé, that doesn't mean he isn't allowed to do something the manager probably asks from him anyway. And he's still one of the best wingers in the Premier League purely because of his pace, power, ball-carrying and ball striking as well. What I just described can be applied to any level as well, from the Premier League all the way down to Sunday league football.
How do you explain this then? Newcastle, he's defending quite deep and just lets players waltz past him. This is just one example, I'm sure there's many more, but this game stuck out for me anyway. Luckily someone put a video together for it.

 

AngeloHenriquez

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How do you explain this then? Newcastle, he's defending quite deep and just lets players waltz past him. This is just one example, I'm sure there's many more, but this game stuck out for me anyway. Luckily someone put a video together for it.

Further to your point, the replacement on the left (E.g. Garnacho) does track back which if it was tactical then he would be being asked not to, it's clearly a Rashford thing - The more concerning thing is why ETH was not dropping him and I worry about the extent of Rashfords power behind the scene.
 

Von Mistelroum

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If we don't get him out this summer then the club are clueless. Any way to remove him will do, loan, cheap sale, hell, I'd take a free transfer even to get good attitude out of the club. It's not like he cost us anything.
 

acid_fuji

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If we don't get him out this summer then the club are clueless. Any way to remove him will do, loan, cheap sale, hell, I'd take a free transfer even to get good attitude out of the club. It's not like he cost us anything.
I don’t see how this is clueless when for example player will want to sit thru because previous management gave him big contract. It’s really not that easy to shift players (last summer should be good example of that)
 

Oranges038

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Further to your point, the replacement on the left (E.g. Garnacho) does track back which if it was tactical then he would be being asked not to, it's clearly a Rashford thing - The more concerning thing is why ETH was not dropping him and I worry about the extent of Rashfords power behind the scene.
It would be tactical if he just stayed high.

He doesn't, he drops but 90% of the time he doesn't put in any effort to pressure the opposition. People have made the point of the Barkley clip, but that was just one of many examples. Most of the time he just gets brushed off and gives up, it's bizarre and infuriating and cannot be tactical.
 

Ikon

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Feels like wasted energy debating this one, I don't think he's going anywhere.
I'm not so sure...I wouldn't 100% rule out a move to Arsenal, I just have that sneaky feeling about it.
 

Judas

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I'm not so sure...I wouldn't 100% rule out a move to Arsenal, I just have that sneaky feeling about it.
Not in a million years would we sell him to Arsenal. It's just not something we'd ever do. Arsenal selling someone like Rashford to us? Yeah sure, never the other way around.
 

led_scholes

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I doubt Arsenal comes for him, but if they do, we should sell.
It shouldn't even matter if he does well for them.

Rashford is one of our highest paid players and has been a discharge the last 3 years, with an exception of 6 good months.
 

Rojofiam

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Please explain this and tell me this is tactics.
That one's fine up until the 8 second mark where he admittedly could've done a bit more. Still, it's getting blown out of proportion.

How do you explain this then? Newcastle, he's defending quite deep and just lets players waltz past him. This is just one example, I'm sure there's many more, but this game stuck out for me anyway. Luckily someone put a video together for it.

What is there to explain? Yeah, there are some clips in there where he should've done more, but like I said, it's 99% likely that he's being told to conserve energy. And some of these clips are incredibly stupid anyways, especially the ones where he's left 1v1 against a Newcastle player on the wing and if he gets beaten after putting his leg in for a tackle, we get opened up. "Not defending close enough" :lol: The person who put that video together has 0 clue about maintaining shape and what Rashford was supposed to do in most of those situations. Basically from 0:42 until like 1:15 it's complete bullshit and Rashford doesn't do anything wrong in those 30 seconds.
 

Paddymcc

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That one's fine up until the 8 second mark where he admittedly could've done a bit more. Still, it's getting blown out of proportion.



What is there to explain? Yeah, there are some clips in there where he should've done more, but like I said, it's 99% likely that he's being told to conserve energy. And some of these clips are incredibly stupid anyways, especially the ones where he's left 1v1 against a Newcastle player on the wing and if he gets beaten after putting his leg in for a tackle, we get opened up. "Not defending close enough" :lol: The person who put that video together has 0 clue about maintaining shape and what Rashford was supposed to do in most of those situations. Basically from 0:42 until like 1:15 it's complete bullshit and Rashford doesn't do anything wrong in those 30 seconds.
Are you joking? hes literally leaving his team mates in the shit by making zero effort in every single minute of those clips.

"likely that he's being told to conserve energy." Hes a fecking 26 year old premier league footballer.

You'd think we had just wheeled Paul Scholes out of retirement with a statement like that.
 

AlexUTD

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If we don't get him out this summer then the club are clueless. Any way to remove him will do, loan, cheap sale, hell, I'd take a free transfer even to get good attitude out of the club. It's not like he cost us anything.
I doubt we are so lucky. He will annoy us next season and out his contract. Will probably wake up his last season again just in time to get a extension.
 

Oranges038

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That one's fine up until the 8 second mark where he admittedly could've done a bit more. Still, it's getting blown out of proportion.



What is there to explain? Yeah, there are some clips in there where he should've done more, but like I said, it's 99% likely that he's being told to conserve energy. And some of these clips are incredibly stupid anyways, especially the ones where he's left 1v1 against a Newcastle player on the wing and if he gets beaten after putting his leg in for a tackle, we get opened up. "Not defending close enough" :lol: The person who put that video together has 0 clue about maintaining shape and what Rashford was supposed to do in most of those situations. Basically from 0:42 until like 1:15 it's complete bullshit and Rashford doesn't do anything wrong in those 30 seconds.
Ok, so just from .42 to 1.15. It's not just about holding shape or positioning, he can use his body shape to force a player down the line or cut out a passing angle, he could be more aggresive in his tackling and pressing.

Stands up, throws a token leg out, gets beaten far too easily - just gives up.

Player dribbles inside - he turns his arse and runs the wrong way.

Holds the player up /not really defending too far away, although he could be tighter. But yet they still have the option of going either side of him with ease. He's not doing anything to close an angle or force the player down the side, you could have a mannequin there and it would do the same job.

And to top it off sees Livramento run free down the wing while he just stands and watches him go.

But yeah, he did nothing wrong at all in those 30 seconds.
 

giorno

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Hopefully United will be reasonable and set a realistic price

Best for everyone if he leaves. As long as it's not Spain :nervous:
 

Gabriel Djemba-Bebe

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If he was told to conserve energy, would there not be dozens of examples of him going like balls in matches, applying all his conserved energy in matches to awesome affect?

Unless he's told to conserve energy but silly Billy Ten Hag forgets to tell him to take the reigns off so he conserves energy just to slowly walk off the pitch at the end of the game?

The conspiracy that exists around Rashford, and the excuses, are pitiful.
Yeah, the argument that he's being instructed to conserve energy is bollocks. I watched him come on for 10 minutes vs Newcastle and he was just jogging around for most of it. There's no reason why he shouldn't be sprinting to close down an opposition player when he's fresh off the bench with a few minutes of the game remaining.
 

Hammondo

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Yeah, the argument that he's being instructed to conserve energy is bollocks. I watched him come on for 10 minutes vs Newcastle and he was just jogging around for most of it. There's no reason why he shouldn't be sprinting to close down an opposition player when he's fresh off the bench with a few minutes of the game remaining.
Why would he need to conserve his energy? Is he that unfit? He doesn't do much with attacking either.
 

Gabriel Djemba-Bebe

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Why would he need to conserve his energy? Is he that unfit? He doesn't do much with attacking either.
We can't know for sure, but I think he's worried about being finished in his 20s, so he's holding off sprinting when possible to prolong his career.
 

Rojofiam

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Are you joking? hes literally leaving his team mates in the shit by making zero effort in every single minute of those clips.

"likely that he's being told to conserve energy." Hes a fecking 26 year old premier league footballer.

You'd think we had just wheeled Paul Scholes out of retirement with a statement like that.
If Rashford starts running around like a headless chicken for the whole game just so it doesn't seem like he's lazy, he'll be knackered by the 60th minute and will need subbing off or won't have the energy late into the game, like any footballer would. Do you want that from a player who has one of the most late / stoppage time goals in Premier League history?

Rashford isn't the only forward in transition-heavy teams that doesn't track back as much as their teammates.
 

Adisa

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People really going with this conserving energy angle. Was Martial also conserving energy?
 

roseguy64

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You choose to ignore several things.

No manager has ever called him out for laziness unless I forgot about something. No manager has benched him for similar reasons either. You really think Rashford has played under 5 different managers now and all of them subordinated themselves for him whilst he was ignoring their instructions? This idea gets even less realistic when you remember ETH has benched Rashford himself for being a few minutes late to a team meeting.

It's also very often a tactical instruction for your best and furthest upward player to conserve energy and don't drop deep, as funny as you might find this. When you win the ball back and can launch a quick transition or counter attack, do you want Rashford to be next his fullback, helping him near his own box, or do you want him near the halfway line to receive a ball from Bruno?

And before you tell me Rashford isn't good enough to be a "luxury" player, as I've got that type of answer to this before: it's tied to tactics, not the player's level. Just because Rashford isn't Messi or even Mbappé, that doesn't mean he isn't allowed to do something the manager probably asks from him anyway. And he's still one of the best wingers in the Premier League purely because of his pace, power, ball-carrying and ball striking as well. What I just described can be applied to any level as well, from the Premier League all the way down to Sunday league football.
There were stats from this season which showed that players who played similar to how Rashford plays in terms of the team tactics and they all had less workrate numbers than him and I doubt you'd see their fans calling them lazy.
Rashford's problem is for this season his output has trailed off. I don't care to do the research but I wouldn't be surprised if his trackable numbers regarding work rate are similar to last season when he scored all those goals.
 

roseguy64

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People really going with this conserving energy angle. Was Martial also conserving energy?
No, Martial played a different role to him. I don't think I remember there being a work rate issue with him, just injuries.
 

Adisa

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No, Martial played a different role to him. I don't think I remember there being a work rate issue with him, just injuries.
What I am saying is I never used to hear conserving energy excuses when the issue of Martial's laziness came up.