Mason Greenwood | 2023/24 Performances | on loan to Getafe

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NicolaSacco said:
Does he strike you as the kind of individual who would do something like that though? It takes a lot of self discipline to put yourself through those individual training sessions day after day, especially if you don’t know when or whether it will ever be needed.
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Especially if you read commentary saying you should be forget about football and pick up plumbing

Big Ben Foster said:
Good points. I guess I've been thinking of this from my POV as someone who resents cardio and aerobic exercise but enjoys weight and strength training.
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Same boat as you. I enjoy lifting. But there's no substitute for aerobics exercise (trust me I tried believing otherwise for a while!).
 
The best on the ball in Getafe. Now, the physical package is the only missing factor, which is a controllable factor that will enable him to return to his old level if the mentality is there. He is a fantastic football player!
 
Pogue Mahone said:
No he didn't. The last full season he played for us he had 7 goals and 2 assists. Which is twice as many assists as he picked up in any other season. Does that sound like a wide forward whose talent is badly missed, or who completely balanced our attack? And that's without even getting into his shitty defensive effort, and general lack of stamina.

Antony's been getting dog's abuse for his lack of end product after matching Greenwood's highest tally of assists ever, in his debut season.
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Why are you only counting PL stats? Someone could easily say a 19-year-old in his second season scored and assisted more than a 22-year-old who cost 100m in his 4th season in senior football. Antony also has the same problems with stamina.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Surely he could have worked on his cardio more when he was still at United, so he didn't have to keep getting subbed off after an hour, because he was blowing out off his arse? When you consider the obvious lack of dedication to fitness while he was still playing professional football, it's not a huge surprise that his conditioning fell off a cliff while he was out of the game.
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Yes, indeed. Blessed with a good frame but didn't ever look particularly fit to last a season as a regular starter. At the time I thought it's more to do with his body still growing.
 
Idxomer said:
They both played in the Europe and English domestic cups in those seasons.



He has started 39 games for United so far and has been subbed off 31 times. I doubt that's purely tactical because the team usually loses some balance with him off.
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I wonder if that’s really that unusual for a winger in the days of 10 man benches and 5 subs per game. Teams tend to make use of most (or all) of their allowance, and it generally seems to happen more the further up the pitch you play. GKs, never. CB’s rarely (apart from injury).
 
Big Ben Foster said:
How did he lose so much muscle mass? The lack of match fitness and conditioning I understand, but surely he could've kept going to the gym and hired a strength trainer during his suspension?
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A potential explanation is probably stress and poor diet. I can't imagine he was in the best mindset when he was off and as @Pogue Mahone mentioned he wasn't exactly conditioned well to begin with.
 
Idxomer said:
They both played in the Europe and English domestic cups in those seasons.
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Different number of games. Different opposition. Can’t be a fair comparison. Full PL season compared apples with apples.


He has started 39 games for United so far and has been subbed off 31 times. I doubt that's purely tactical because the team usually loses some balance with him off.
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So one games in 4 he plays the full game. I’m fairly certain Greenwood never lasted a full 90 minutes.
 
Idxomer said:
He has started 39 games for United so far and has been subbed off 31 times. I doubt that's purely tactical because the team usually loses some balance with him off.
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I think quite a few of those were because he was on a yellow and looked likely to get a second. He also got taken off at half time in one game after doing a complete 360 degree turn before passing the ball out for a goal kick.
 
Greenwood has great finishing talent.
But he is massively overrated as a player here and I feel the less he plays, the bigger the overrating gets.

Wish him all the best, but seriously, people are willing to go as far as praising him for winning a corner for Hetafe.
And Antony will get destroyed on here, like he never does anything positive.
 
Toshey said:
Greenwood has great finishing talent.
But he is massively overrated as a player here and I feel the less he plays, the bigger the overrating gets.

Wish him all the best, but seriously, people are willing to go as far as praising him for winning a corner for Hetafe.
And Antony will get destroyed on here, like he never does anything positive.
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Who has overrated him here ? He hasn't played in 18 months, which is what he is being measured against - whether an immensely talented player who has been out of the game for a long time is able to work his way back to match fitness and potentially regain some of his old form.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
How did he lose so much muscle mass? The lack of match fitness and conditioning I understand, but surely he could've kept going to the gym and hired a strength trainer during his suspension?
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Could be stress. It's a pretty tough thing to face and weight loss is a pretty common symptom of stress
 
He will need quite some time to get back to match sharpness, he was out for a long time. This season is basically like a long pre season for him. I expect him to be much better in the second half of the season. There is also the mental side, with dealing with the consequences and also being in a new environment and country etc.
 
Toshey said:
Greenwood has great finishing talent.
But he is massively overrated as a player here and I feel the less he plays, the bigger the overrating gets.

Wish him all the best, but seriously, people are willing to go as far as praising him for winning a corner for Hetafe.
And Antony will get destroyed on here, like he never does anything positive.
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At one stage he was the most or 2nd most valuable teenager in the world. Was like £120-140 million. Can't remember the exact figure off the top of my head.

It was just us who rated him.
 
I’ve always said I don’t see the raw minerals. Has one of the best shots in football and it’s a beauty that can’t be taken away but the rest of his game confuses me.

I was told, it’s because he is a CF and will get to see it all come together when he finally transitions to the central position. Always thought he gets those shooting opportunities because he comes into those afforded spaces to allow for shooting. In tighter areas like CF, he’d have struggled to be impactful.

Maybe in time with experience and further development, I’ll see the things others have already seen.

He moves like a footballer though.
 
I don't plan on adding Getafe my viewing routine and appreciate any commentary that pops up here. As for what Mason Greenwood once was as a prospect, he was very high up the young ones to watch. If there was one chink in his armor (on the pitch, of course), it was that he was a bit of a hybrid striker/winger and not quite a specialist in either. If you're Messi or Ronaldo and can do whatever you want at will, that's not a problem -- but Greenwood was never at the level of Messi or Ronaldo at the age of 19 or 20. Assuming he gets his professional career back on track, he may have find barriers breaking into a club that needs a flat out striker or a flat out winger, inverted or not.
 
KikiDaKats said:
I’ve always said I don’t see the raw minerals. Has one of the best shots in football and it’s a beauty that can’t be taken away but the rest of his game confuses me.

I was told, it’s because he is a CF and will get to see it all come together when he finally transitions to the central position. Always thought he gets those shooting opportunities because he comes into those afforded spaces to allow for shooting. In tighter areas like CF, he’d have struggled to be impactful.

Maybe in time with experience and further development, I’ll see the things others have already seen.

He moves like a footballer though.
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That might be because he isn't fully developed yet. His best season of 17 goals in 48 appearances, came when he was 17/18 years old. If you look at Rooney at that stage and the Rooney of ~2008-2012, he was much more versatile and comprehensive compared to the raw talent teenager who was sending thunderbolts from outside the box as a 17 year old. Greenwood is in a similar predicament (or shall we say "was", prior to the lengthy absence). We were looking at a player who could've been with the club until his early 30s.
 
Toshey said:
Greenwood has great finishing talent.
But he is massively overrated as a player here and I feel the less he plays, the bigger the overrating gets.

Wish him all the best, but seriously, people are willing to go as far as praising him for winning a corner for Hetafe.
And Antony will get destroyed on here, like he never does anything positive.
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Whilst at United, he looked like one of the very best talents to come through. He would be an absolute star player by now if he kept a normal behaviour
 
Big Ben Foster said:
How did he lose so much muscle mass? The lack of match fitness and conditioning I understand, but surely he could've kept going to the gym and hired a strength trainer during his suspension?
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Probably spent all that time off playing FIFA with Sancho.
 
Raoul said:
That might be because he isn't fully developed yet. His best season of 17 goals in 48 appearances, came when he was 17/18 years old. If you look at Rooney at that stage and the Rooney of ~2008-2012, he was much more versatile and comprehensive compared to the raw talent teenager who was sending thunderbolts from outside the box as a 17 year old. Greenwood is in a similar predicament (or shall we say "was", prior to the lengthy absence). We were looking at a player who could've been with the club until his early 30s.
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Yeah that makes a lot of sense, you might be unto something here.

Most of what I look at when watching young players are not really quantifiable. I’ll keep watch.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
No he didn't. The last full season he played for us he had 7 goals and 2 assists. Which is twice as many assists as he picked up in any other season. Does that sound like a wide forward whose talent is badly missed, or who completely balanced our attack? And that's without even getting into his shitty defensive effort, and general lack of stamina.

Antony's been getting dog's abuse for his lack of end product after matching Greenwood's highest tally of assists ever, in his debut season.
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Not sure you can leave out Greenwood scoring 17 and 12 in previous seasons when comapring end product. Or the obvious gulf in talent between the two.
 
Tbf he probably wasnt in best of mental frames to concentrate on fitness and weight training.

I can see him improving as he plays more and more.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Different number of games. Different opposition. Can’t be a fair comparison. Full PL season compared apples with apples.
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They played almost the exact same number of minutes in the seasons you compared. The average quality of the opposition is likely to be not much different. PL teams don't stay the same either, Everton and Arsenal in 20/21 for example are hugely different from last season.

Pogue Mahone said:
So one games in 4 he plays the full game. I’m fairly certain Greenwood never lasted a full 90 minutes.
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The same ratio as Antony actually.
 
Marwood said:
Not sure you can leave out Greenwood scoring 17 and 12 in previous seasons when comapring end product. Or the obvious gulf in talent between the two.
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If you think I’m ignoring any of that you need to read the post I was responding to. I’m disagreeing with the idea that he “made us complete” when there was clearly still loads of room for improvement when he last played for us (as there is for Antony too)
 
Pogue Mahone said:
If you think I’m ignoring any of that you need to read the post I was responding to. I’m disagreeing with the idea that he “made us complete” when there was clearly still loads of room for improvement when he last played for us (as there is for Antony too)
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Totally agree, in the last 12 months before his removal from the team he was an incredibly frustrating player. He scored a few great goals but often did so during games where for the remainder of the 90 minutes he was anonymous and made little effort to track back or otherwise get involved. It felt very much as though he had plateaued and was in danger of falling away if he did not find the motivation to improve himself and fulfill his potential.
 
Gandalf said:
Totally agree, in the last 12 months before his removal from the team he was an incredibly frustrating player. He scored a few great goals but often did so during games where for the remainder of the 90 minutes he was anonymous and made little effort to track back or otherwise get involved. It felt very much as though he had plateaued and was in danger of falling away if he did not find the motivation to improve himself and fulfill his potential.
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It’s perfectly normal for 19 years old to be frustrating to watch at times. They are are after all still developing. CR7 at that age was still being mocked as a step over artist, so we shouldn’t expect players at such an early phase of development to be the finished product.
 
Raoul said:
It’s perfectly normal for 19 years old to be frustrating to watch at times. They are are after all still developing. CR7 at that age was still being mocked as a step over artist, so we shouldn’t expect players at such an early phase of development to be the finished product.
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It is not so much that he was not the finished article, it was that he was not noticeably improving any aspect of his game after over 2 years in the first team. He seemed to lack the desire for self improvement that the best players have and looked to be in real need of a manager that would push him and demand more effort which was obviously not Ole's style. It would have been interesting to see what a taskmaster like ETH would have made of him, potentially could have elevated him to another level or it could have crashed and burned like Sancho. I have no idea what the Getafe manager is like or even who he is so no clue if he can help him.
 
Gandalf said:
It is not so much that he was not the finished article, it was that he was not noticeably improving any aspect of his game after over 2 years in the first team. He seemed to lack the desire for self improvement that the best players have and looked to be in real need of a manager that would push him and demand more effort which was obviously not Ole's style. It would have been interesting to see what a taskmaster like ETH would have made of him, potentially could have elevated him to another level or it could have crashed and burned like Sancho. I have no idea what the Getafe manager is like or even who he is so no clue if he can help him.
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Yeah feel the same way, you could tell even before he beat his partner that there were some issues regarding his maturity and work ethic by some of the leaks and by his inability to finish games. Ultimately that's probably going to keep him from reaching the very top, could see him having a career similar to that of Januzaj though.
 
I think with international breaks and winter break, it will provide opportunities for Greenwood to work on his physicality and conditioning going forward. I think his best form will be from January onwards.
 
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