Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

[RedRonaldo]

Worryingly, the picture caption suggested it was not a one-off thing. But regardless, the stats that @moses posted (the ones that you took issue with) are entirely relevant to this discussion.

Nah it’s like saying over 20% of woman has experienced DV at least once in their life time (general stats), so it implies that chance of your wife suffering DV from you would be 20% too. That’s how stupid general stats would be like if we put it this way.

 

[sepulturite]

Nah it’s like saying over 20% of woman has experienced DV at least once in their life time (general stats), so it implies that chance of your wife suffering DV from you would be 20% too. That’s how stupid general stats would be like if we put it this way.

Jesus you really don't have a clue so you?

 

[Yagami]

It could be fitness, but in the first 20 minutes or so when he was on the left he barely touched the ball and was still doing his jogging/walking bit.

I missed the majority of the game, but, yeah, it probably isn't fitness at this point because, in possession, he looks too sharp. I think it's a mix of the manager given him extra leeway because he's their best player alongside Mason himself having an ego.

Still, signs are promising. He's way ahead of where I thought he'd be in terms of his general play after not playing for so long.

 

[Hound Dog]

"We believe in rehabilitation.

Plus he scored a great goal"

The goal I am talking about was scored by an Osasuna player.

 

[Hound Dog]

Reply to me

Sure thing.

There is a reason why the juries, in countries that have them, are not consisted of people personally affected by whatever crime took place. I do not think it is possible to convince you.

 

[Pronewbie]

As if he wasn't la liga player of the month.

The agenda against him personally doesn't make him any less of a world class talent on the pitch.

On the pitch he would be unreal for us. Just as he was before the incident.

Thought he was way overhyped when he played for us and too much of a passenger other than his world class finishing. I'm seeing much better from him with Getafe (off highlights), though it is mostly against the poorer teams in La Liga.

But then if what Yagami says about his defensive work-rate is true then that was the biggest turn-off for me when he was with us. That and the fact he wasn't really a team player and was clearly throwing a strop when played with Ronaldo.

We'll have to see if that changes.

 

[Wumminator]

As if he wasn't la liga player of the month.

The agenda against him personally doesn't make him any less of a world class talent on the pitch.

On the pitch he would be unreal for us. Just as he was before the incident.

He (quite obviously) has never been La Liga player of the month

 

[Fridge chutney]

Nah it’s like saying over 20% of woman has experienced DV at least once in their life time (general stats), so it implies that chance of your wife suffering DV from you would be 20% too. That’s how stupid general stats would be like if we put it this way.

This is one of the most brain dead and obtuse posts i've read on this, or any, forum. If you truly believe this ridiculous false equivalence, then your opinion is moronic.

 

[Fridge chutney]

Anyone wanna reply?

People will not reply because they are immature, ill-equipped, and possibly cowardly. I'm so sorry about what you experienced.

 

[Wumminator]

Nah it’s like saying over 20% of woman has experienced DV at least once in their life time (general stats), so it implies that chance of your wife suffering DV from you would be 20% too. That’s how stupid general stats would be like if we put it this way.

fecking hell.


That is bad. Even for this thread.

 

[Wibble]

Nah it’s like saying over 20% of woman has experienced DV at least once in their life time (general stats), so it implies that chance of your wife suffering DV from you would be 20% too. That’s how stupid general stats would be like if we put it this way.

Not it isn't. Not even a little bit.

The stat used shows that going back to your abuser is very common. Highly appropriate because Greenwood apologist use his partner going back to him as some sign all is fine and dandy, and even in some cases a sign nothing happened in the first place.

 

[MackRobinson]

I missed the majority of the game, but, yeah, it probably isn't fitness at this point because, in possession, he looks too sharp. I think it's a mix of the manager given him extra leeway because he's their best player alongside Mason himself having an ego.

Still, signs are promising. He's way ahead of where I thought he'd be in terms of his general play after not playing for so long.

The other benefit of generally having an increased work rate is he would get on the ball more. His pressure on the fullback led to his most significant contribution of the first half.

He looks like he can make something happen whenever he's in possession, but his work rate or lack thereof will determine his ceiling.

 

[MackRobinson]

Sure thing.

There is a reason why the juries, in countries that have them, are not consisted of people personally affected by whatever crime took place. I do not think it is possible to convince you.

Disappointed you took such obvious bait.

 

[sepulturite]

Disappointed you took such obvious bait.

Are you seriously saying what @Peter van der Gea posted about what they went through and asking for replies from anyone was bait?! Jesus I can see why you were banned for a while.

 

[Wibble]

Disappointed you took such obvious bait.

That is a vile things to say about a question from a sexual assault survivor. Have a time out. Given you are just back from a ban I suggest you think long and hard about your future posting behavior if you want to stay here. Assuming the modmins don't up this warning to a permaban.

 

[Shakesy]

OK. I see now.

Toxic

 

[sepulturite]

That is a vile things to say about a question from a sexual assault survivor. Have a time out. Given you are just back from a ban I suggest you think long and hard about your future posting behavior if you want to stay here. Assuming the modmins don't up this warning to a permaban.

It should be a permaban in my opinion, it's clear from his posts in this thread that he just can't help himself.

 

[Wibble]

It should be a permaban in my opinion, it's clear from his posts in this thread that he just can't help himself.

To be discussed.

 

[Wumminator]

Disappointed you took such obvious bait.

The poster in question has opened up in multiple threads across a long time period.

To justify your absolutely abhorrent opinions you have to twist this to being some kind of bait. Because otherwise would force you to think about what you’re actually saying.

I remember you making some really good posts about race and racism in society, I genuinely think you have just gone too far on this. Have a think about what you’ve just insinuated.

 

[Roboc7]

Yet another blank, 3 in 16, excluding the brace against a team of plumbers. Its not a convincing case for the return of such a potentially divisive character, who had already lost his international place due to behaviour before the more well known incident. My feeling is to take whatever we can get for him and sancho, and spend it wisely.

Yeah he has huge talent but I’m not convinced he is or will ever become as good a player as many think. We don’t need yet another playing lacking in work rate and intensity let alone one who also brings all this baggage with them. Try and get a decent fee and move on.

 

[adexkola]

I am a rape survivor. Convince me that I should support him playing for MY club.

Jesus Christ, why would I or anyone who is nonchalant or supportive of his return want to convince you (who's suffered a horrible crime)? I don't think anyone can knock your personal stance on this. Wish you the best, first and foremost.

But to answer your question, you don't have to support him. Most people voting* yes on this issue don't think he's a good person or is worthy of supporting as a human being, that's his own personal business. They're only concerned about the results on the pitch and believe he can assist with that given his skill-set. When he scores, celebrate that United are up by 1, not that Greenwood scored.

But if you believe that supporting a football club means that you also support and condone the off-pitch activity of every club employee then there is no convincing you otherwise. I believe otherwise and hope the club executives can be similarly amoral enough to think strictly in terms of dollars and cents on this issue. Utilize him or sell him for a good amount of money, and don't pretend he's a good person in the middle of it.

(There are certain things a great player would do that would make me irrationally loathe seeing them in a United jersey, regardless of their ability. And I'd hope the club wouldn't take my opinions into consideration)

*I intend to vote no, so that the Caf looks better

 

[adexkola]

People will not reply because they are immature, ill-equipped, and possibly cowardly.

Or maybe it's because it's kind of a catch-22 question with a simple answer: you most likely can't? I don't think there is an argument on earth that would work. Most people's minds are made up and I'm assuming most of them are not survivors of SA

Of course I tried providing an answer, because I'm an amoral idiot

 

[Lash]

As if he wasn't la liga player of the month.

The agenda against him personally doesn't make him any less of a world class talent on the pitch.

On the pitch he would be unreal for us. Just as he was before the incident.

He wasn't? He was Getafe's.

I very much doubt he'd be unreal, he's had some good games, he's had some ineffective games. There's nothing about what we've seen of him to suggest he's back to the quality he was prior, it's all been fits and spurts - which is expected.

 

[flameinthesun]

People will not reply because they are immature, ill-equipped, and possibly cowardly. I'm so sorry about what you experienced.

Anyone wanna reply?

The poster has every right to not want Greenwood back at the club based on their personal experience. If after seeing the leaked pics/audio, the CPS statement, United's statement, the alleged victim getting back with Mason, their conclusion is that they don't want him back then its a perfectly valid stance to take. Even more so based on their personal experience.

I also believe if a separate person see's the same and comes to the conclusion that if United, as they state in their statement, believe he has not done what he was accused off, that it appears all parties involved have moved on and Greenwood has no case to answer then he should also be allowed back

If we are being honest with ourselves nobody is convincing each other to change their opinions. The only opinion I totally disagree with is those that said Grenwood should be brought back at any cost before United had completed their reveiw. Or those peddling silly conspiracy theory putting potential blame on the alleged victim. All other stances are perfectly valid and can be argued for in one way or another.

 

[Kostov]

I am a rape survivor. Convince me that I should support him playing for MY club.

Peter no one needs to convince you to support anyone.

 

[RedRonaldo]

This is one of the most brain dead and obtuse posts i've read on this, or any, forum. If you truly believe this ridiculous false equivalence, then your opinion is moronic.

Of course that’s absolutely ridiculous. And that’s exactly what why using general stats is stupid idea.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Not it isn't. Not even a little bit.

The stat used shows that going back to your abuser is very common. Highly appropriate because Greenwood apologist use his partner going back to him as some sign all is fine and dandy, and even in some cases a sign nothing happened in the first place.

That’s just based on your assumption from general stats.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

I didn’t at any time say they don’t have standards, I’m sure that they do in their own lives just that on this topic they don’t care, they just want him playing for United

Agreed but you made sure to say those that don’t want Greenwood to play do & I’m saying there’s no case of superiority in this case for either side.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

There’s no good faith in the discussion. I heard a man threatening to rape a woman and the same woman posted pictures saying he’d battered her. As a result said lad was kicked out of football for 18 months and forced to leave his club.

People who are arguing for him don’t have standards. I’m not going to pretend that they do.

Generalisations like these always promote healthy discussion.

 

[Wibble]

Yes. As mentioned earlier, he needs to develop more in terms of pressing and tracking back.

That and not threatening to rape people who don't want sex with him immediately.

 

[Wibble]

That’s just based on your assumption from general stats.

Not it isn't. Not even a little bit.

Greenwood's was accused of DV of a sexual nature and his partner returning to him has been one of the primary arguments used by his apologists to say everything is either now fine or that there was never anything to be concerned about. A statistic regarding the prevalence of DV victims returning to their abuser is therefore highly pertinent.

Your example was ludicrously disconnected from what we were discussing and therefore disingenuous.

 

[cafecillos]

That’s just based on your assumption from general stats.

Please, stop embarrassing yourself, take the L and move on.

 

[L1nk]

I have to ask, why is this even a topic still, I don't understand why there are people so emotionally invested in Greenwood playing for the club considering he has no clue you even exist. Bad things happened, let it go, yes he's a talented footballer but so what? It's just football and some things are way bigger than that. He is and would not be the be-all and end-all of Manchester United yet some of you act like the football club will perish if we don't bring him back. Just invest the money we get for him on a different player and move on. Seriously don't understand all of this...

There's also a lot of insensitivity in this thread based purely on the fact he can kick ball good, it's extremely disappointing to see.

 

[Spaghetti]

I am a rape survivor. Convince me that I should support him playing for MY club.

Me too, and I would welcome him back. And my situation was (in my opinion) worse than his.

I know that me putting “me too” here sounds like I am fabricating, but I am not.

 

[Solius]

I have to ask, why is this even a topic still, I don't understand why there are people so emotionally invested in Greenwood playing for the club considering he has no clue you even exist. Bad things happened, let it go, yes he's a talented footballer but so what? It's just football and some things are way bigger than that. He is and would not be the be-all and end-all of Manchester United yet some of you act like the football club will perish if we don't bring him back. Just invest the money we get for him on a different player and move on. Seriously don't understand all of this...

There's also a lot of insensitivity in this thread based purely on the fact he can kick ball good, it's extremely disappointing to see.

If this was someone like Mateo Mejia do you think all these people would have invested so much time discussing this and bending over backwards to think of ways he could come back? Me neither.

It's literally because he's good at football and that's all that matters to some people. Hopefully they can expand their horizons at some point.

 

[Red00012]

I didn’t think this thread could get worse but well done you fooled me.

this thread needs a winter break for a few weeks

 

[Pickle85]

I didn’t think this thread could get worse but well done you fooled me.

this thread needs a winter break for a few weeks

You don't have to watch it, you know?

 

[BristolMick]

I am a rape survivor. Convince me that I should support him playing for MY club.

It's not just YOUR club, it's a club which many people follow. I don't think you can be convinced to change your views and I don't expect you to have to. What you've faced is terrible and you get my deepest sympathies.

I can respect your opinion and accept it just like other posters can respect and accept the differing views of others too. Its a divided subject and far too many people are trying to impose their views on others which isn't right. Just like my views shouldn't be imposed on you - we can agree to disagree which more people should be doing in this thread in my opinion. Whether we voice our views once or 300 times, we're unlikely to change the strongly held opinions of other posters.

I don't think people should be weaponsing your experiences myself and using that in an argument as it potentially can turn the thread quite ugly and make things rather distasteful. For the same reasons I don't intend to attempt to convince you to change your views either.

I've read enough over the last few days to come to the understanding that most people have strong opinions on the issue whether they'd welcome a return or not and I've seen very little evidence of anything which people have said in this thread which has swayed peoples opinion to change. I've only been watching the last 10 or so pages, so not sure if people's views changed earlier in the thread? From what I've read I think that's unlikely.

I don't personally agree with people arguing as though they're adamant and certain that Mason is guilty of alleged crimes either. Whether we like it or not we don't know what explanations were offered, what further evidence was available and which statements were provided. Anyone making an assumption he is innocent or guilty without access to thst information is simply making assumptions and that's fact. For every pro greenwood poster offering their reasons why these statements suddenly make greenwood not guilty there's another anti greenwood poster explaining how it's all a massive cover up and deciding what the evidence consisted of. But neither party knows and making assumptions for strongly held opinions doesn't help.

Whether he did it or not I support his return to football and would support his return to united. However if he did commit alleged crimes I'd prefer him to serve whichever sentence is worthy first. Unfortunately this won't happen now so all I can work off is where we're at and be honest.

That doesn't mean you should hold that view. And I respect the views of everyone else and don't intend to try and change them. I hope the same respect can be given for my views. If someone wishes to challenge specifics then I'm more than happy to try and answer. But there has to be alot more of an effort to agree to disagree in this thread in my opinion. It's the inability to do that by both sides which makes things toxic in my view.

And lastly, sorry again for your past experiences and the impact which that has had on you. I truly hope you're doing better now and I apologise if my views offend you in anyway but I'd rather be honest.

 

[Red00012]

You don't have to watch it, you know?

I don’t watch it and never posted on it as I posted on the player performance thread but since they got rid of that it’s a shitshow .

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Anyone wanna reply?

I’ll reply.

He was never charged or accuser of rape, let’s at least get that clear.
He appears to be a dickhead, and possibly an absolute scumbag, but we certainly don’t know all the facts, we sadly never got chance to see evidence cross examined in court nor any counter evidence (longer tape etc), nor why the internal investigation came to Arnolds conclusion, nor why the two of them met and reunited during his bail.

Each person can deal with that in their own way. Mine is that I’m ok with saying I don’t know, and that I think his wife and kid have a better chance of a life outside of the country where their life will be made much harder.