That’s the club’s strategy for most decisions ever since Sir Alex retired.
Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic
- Thread starter keithsingleton
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I don't know whether I'd be comfortable with him staying at the club or not, it really depends on what this additional evidence was and what he was actually guilty of. What I am certain of is the club were just kicking the can down the road as much as possible with no overall strategy to achieve their desired outcome.
The fact is if they wanted to reintegrate Greenwood they needed to present a convincing argument that he wasn't guilty, or was guilty of very minor offenses and is very sorry etc, but they had no strategy and did a complete 180 at the first sign of the inevitable backlash. It was amateur hour again. The Glazers are an embarrassment to themselves and the club, it's no wonder clubs and agents think they can take the piss out of them in negotiations.
Hope he smashes it in La Liga so we can at least extract a fee for him next summer.
Though have to worry how someone with such limited intelligence is going to cope in an environment with a big language barrier.
Though have to worry how someone with such limited intelligence is going to cope in an environment with a big language barrier.
So we’ve paid his wages in full for the last 18 months. We’ll also be paying probably around 50k a week this season while he’s on loan in Spain. All this points to him coming back to the club in my opinion
My last post on this thread,
All charges against Greenwood were dropped and new evidence came to light, so this quickly turned from a legal debate to a moral debate. The length of time this has gone on is ridiculous. It's a moral decision. They should have made it ages ago and picked a stance. Either, they should have said "We cannot tolerate the behavior set by this player" or "we understand the situation and as a club, we support him and are giving him a chance to be better".
Ultimately the club statement has said that based on all the evidence they have seen, Mason is not guilty of what he was legally accused of. “Based on the evidence available to us, we have concluded that the material posted online did not provide a full picture and that Mason did not commit the offences in respect of which he was originally charged”. So that is saying they feel he DID NOT attempt to rape or assault anyone. So ultimately he is only guilty of being an arrogant, vile kn*b who need to learn some respect. The fact that he's been a Manchester united player from the age of 7, means that the club have had a huge part in his upbringing, to think the club should now play a part in his rehabilitation is not crazy, is it?
The court of law is almost an irrelevant when the court of public opinion (which is often just a very vocal minority) can so effectively ostracize a person from society. This is nothing more than another high-profile person being axed by cancel culture.
I wish Mason the very best and I’m not missing any Getafe match this season. And I pray he gets to do well such that the management of Man Utd will bury their heads in shame for attempting to assume that they can please everyone.
All charges against Greenwood were dropped and new evidence came to light, so this quickly turned from a legal debate to a moral debate. The length of time this has gone on is ridiculous. It's a moral decision. They should have made it ages ago and picked a stance. Either, they should have said "We cannot tolerate the behavior set by this player" or "we understand the situation and as a club, we support him and are giving him a chance to be better".
Ultimately the club statement has said that based on all the evidence they have seen, Mason is not guilty of what he was legally accused of. “Based on the evidence available to us, we have concluded that the material posted online did not provide a full picture and that Mason did not commit the offences in respect of which he was originally charged”. So that is saying they feel he DID NOT attempt to rape or assault anyone. So ultimately he is only guilty of being an arrogant, vile kn*b who need to learn some respect. The fact that he's been a Manchester united player from the age of 7, means that the club have had a huge part in his upbringing, to think the club should now play a part in his rehabilitation is not crazy, is it?
The court of law is almost an irrelevant when the court of public opinion (which is often just a very vocal minority) can so effectively ostracize a person from society. This is nothing more than another high-profile person being axed by cancel culture.
I wish Mason the very best and I’m not missing any Getafe match this season. And I pray he gets to do well such that the management of Man Utd will bury their heads in shame for attempting to assume that they can please everyone.
It just seemed a bit silly and 'boy' used to describe Greenwood is normally meant to diminish his responsibility.
Yep. Seems like we're also at the point where anyone who says thay they hope Mason can stop being a cnut in future is suddenly one of his apologists, regardless of what they've said in the past on the subject. But hey ho. Emotions will continue to be high for a while methinks.
Or they could have just gone, "he's not legally guilty, he's a scumbag, he's under contract, and he'll be playing until he can be sold or his contract expires, feck off Riley", and ignored the criticism. Like they've done for years.
Or just binned him after the tape came out, and take the financial hit (paying him off/not getting any transfer revenue)
But like you said, they chose this moment to dither.
Good.
Why?
Maybe just give the Utd games a miss and support them instead.
Can’t wait to see him back, I’ll definitely keep an eye on him during the season.
What, you have no interest in seeing how a Manchester United player does on loan?Why?
I doubt there is any backlash given that this entire case largely exists almost exclusively within the UK media ecosystem where it is seen through the lens of UK norms.
You should find literally anything better to do with your life.
Yeah, don't I know it. Even people who have echoed what I've said earlier in the thread have since got confused and tried to twist words.
This situation really has scrambled brains. And now it's just going to rumble on and on.
Good luck to him - hope he does well at Getafe. I think the slower pace of the league might suit him.
I did think he was always going to have to go to a club outside of England and that wasn't English speaking. The main issue is the audio and if the fanbase doesn't understand it, then it's probably less of a PR hit for the club. That does sound silly but I do think it's a factor. Actually hearing it would influence someone's opinion of this.
This is the confusing part for me. Cutting all ties with Greenwood wouldn't be unreasonable given the circumstances.
However you could make an argument for giving him a second chance as well. At the very least you'd expect some kind of plan in that case though. A club statement along the lines of
”We feel it's best that Mason Greenwood rehabilitates himself at Getafe in Spain next season. We've planned this by making sure Greenwood has been well prepared for Spanish language and culture, hired professional therapists who will be on standby 24/7 in Madrid, the parents of his partner will join them on this move and keep supervision on the family situation.„
Now it comes across like we had no plan, let him go on deadline day, with no preparation. Like you say, with his personality and behaviour in the past, what could go wrong?
Though presumably I guess he will move to Getafe without his partner and kid
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I know its probably not legally possible, but id have llked to. have seen him forced to take a very hefty cut in salary...along the lines that he is effectively being given a chance to save his career....I won't. say I wish him well, because its up to him, but if he can come back as a mature person, then he can start again somewhere....my best wishes are really. for the baby
Look forward to seeing Getafe matches and still hoping we can see him in United shirt next year
Plus he's a quality of player far above what a club like Getafe should be able to attract, so they're probably very, very happy with the signing.
I remember when we all were super excited to see Rashford-Martial-Greenwood trio. Young, super talented and hungry attacking trio. In reality that trio would be;
Lazy-Lazier-Laziest
He has been away from playing football for a long time. It is most likely going to take some time to get back to where he left. It is going to be interesting to see how much determination he has to reach the top again.
He was. No-one really knows what his level is now. Will they show patience if it takes him months to find his form (if he can)?
Valid points.
As someone with a young daughter I don't particularly consider domestic abusers or other males who defend domestic abusers as real men.
Been taught from a young age that you don't put your hands on a woman and honestly thinking that this could happen to my daughter fills me with rage.
Hope he does well for his childs sake but it's honestly really really really hard for me to feel anything but absolute disgust at this kid. Hopefully he proves me wrong in the future.
Hahaha some people really do have some dark fantasies
Oh I'm not fantasizing about it, it just wouldn't bother me if it happened.
Good move to live in Madrid and play in a top league, considering his career could have been over.
Very happy he is not with us this year at least, I don't think theres much of anything that would make me stop watching/supporting United but it would have been extremely difficult to cheer him on or watch him.
I'm sure it will be reviewed and dredged up again when he plays, scores and ultimately comes back to us next year, unless there are further statements from him or his partner I really can't envisage changing my mind on being okay with him playing at United.
As usual this thread is full of dross and complete bald faced insincerity. I still think the above screenshots are so horribly minimised. He's highly highly likely to be guilty of at least minor physical and sexual abuse and the words and injuries are horrible. The way that has been trivialised over the course of this disaster is in such bad faith and it will only keep being made lesser and lesser as time goes on or goals go in.
Hopefully they have an abuse free relationship from here on out, I think that unlikely, as is very well evidenced within domestic abuse, but it's not impossible.
Everyone does deserve second chances and I think this is probably better than could be hoped for in the circumstances, the complete lack of explanation or acceptance of any real guilt or error still really rankles me, Greenwood doesn't really owe it to us if he has made it privately but it does create a big barrier for many people to be able to view him as someone who deserves huge empathy and the opportunity to continue being a rich, famous, adored sportsman.
Railing against cancel culture, Riley, or other posters in spite of the above screenshots is completely daft, but it's always very fascinating/depressing how narratives can begin, develop and then dominate.
I'm personally not bothered about driving his price up or how we best sell him, I'd have been happier if we had of paid out his contract and he was now fully separate from us, hopefully, in absence of further info or statement, that still happens next year.
I think the club have done so so poorly. Their statement is a disaster, accepting they don't have all the evidence but are content he is innocent, without any engagement from the victim, is so obviously flawed, the insight into what their process was shows it was so limited, despite taking so very long. Then the timing of the outcome and of course the reporting that has highlighted their plans and approach, ultimately leading to a U-turn that was overall probably more damaging than if they had either just terminated his contract or decided to keep him.
A difficult and unique situation for them of course but it's hard to imagine how it could have been handled worse, the result has been divisive/unclear for pretty much everyone on any side of the debate.
Great post.
Yet according to posters in this thread he deserves a second chance. As if he hasn't gotten an incredible lifeline already.
The key issue for many is that for some reason the CPS do not view these images or the audio snippet as evidence or it would’ve got to court, witness removed or not.
It’s not that people don’t care, or don’t find those images horrible - it’s that they understand that highly trained professionals have spent the best part of a year going through this with far more knowledge than we have and have then dropped all charges - they wouldn’t have done so without reason. Having witness withdraw wouldn’t kill the case if these images and audio were solid evidence.
We’ve seen with the Amber / Johnny case that things that seem bang to rights are often not.
Again - it’s not that people don’t care, or are being insincere, it’s that they are puzzled but willing to trust the experts and professionals who have far more knowledge than the laymen guided by emotion but not knowledge, on what is a highly emotive subject that many people (myself included, since childhood) have personal experience with and thus any mention of the topic dredges up very unpleasant, raw feelings that can understandably very easily hijack logic.
That's incorrect though and overly charitable despite what they plainly are.
If I provide the police with recordings and images then withdraw my support or make a statement saying the content of the images or recording are not what it seems it becomes impossible to try, whether that is the truth of the matter or not.
On a more basic level you have to show provenance for evidence you are relying on in court. If the person who took the images or recording won't go to court to tell the court what they are/show they are likely inadmissable or at the least highly questionable in terms of authenticity, from a courts perspective. Meaning it would not have been at all simple or straight forward to secure a conviction without the victims participation, even though the images and recording as so plainly obvious in the nature of what they are.
I am speaking from first hand knowledge of courts in the UK, not from emotion.
This means the case was not likely to result in a conviction, it doesn't mean those things aren't viewed as evidence as you say, and it doesn't mean those things can't be considered by a layperson. They are clearly contemporaneous and genuine, they might not be the entire story and the 'extra' evidence might be compelling.
I think if it was we'd have it as it would play better for MG.
Reading into a case not going to court in any way, positively or negatively re guilt/innocent is an error.
Why would the club get any engagement from the victim? United doesn't have any authority in this. It's not their place to do so.
Totally, like they wouldn't have had access to the evidence gathered by the police.
They acknowledge the lack of quality/insight in their own investigation at the start of the statement.
I'm grand with all that - it simply makes no sense at all to say all that and acknowledge you have no input from the victim or sight of all the evidence and then include the 'fact' that he is innocent of the offences.
You simply can't make both those things make sense.
This is all a scheme to bring him back if he gets on form again. His little trip to Spain is what the club wanted.
2 year loan no doubt and see what public opinion is in a year / 2 years time. He’ll get another shot I’m sure if he does amazingly well.
What it’s worth I don’t think we’ll have to worry about him been back ever. I reckon in Spain he won’t be all that and do a Januzai becoming a mid table player “who could’ve made it to the top”.
Could be wrong but I just see something off with this kid and United are always after the next pricey new toy anyways.
2 year loan no doubt and see what public opinion is in a year / 2 years time. He’ll get another shot I’m sure if he does amazingly well.
What it’s worth I don’t think we’ll have to worry about him been back ever. I reckon in Spain he won’t be all that and do a Januzai becoming a mid table player “who could’ve made it to the top”.
Could be wrong but I just see something off with this kid and United are always after the next pricey new toy anyways.
Probably is the plan. One injury for Martial and Hojlund and 20 goals for him at Getafe and they'll be clamoring for him like some sort of Messiah.
Such a weird reply.... You would not be bothered if Mason was targeted by a la liga player and had his leg broken? Because you deem him guilty and therefore it would be him getting what he deserves?
Let the dude go about his business and rebuild his career without silly posts like yours and the other posters. No need to resort to those types of posts.
Yes, precisely. I deem him to be guilty of a terrible crime that he got away with, and as such I don't think should get the opportunity to "rebuild his career", as you put it. I'm not going to do anything about it, but the least I can do is hope that he fails. I'd never wish a career ending injury upon the worst rival player, but this goes beyond that.