It's more than enough to have a personal opinion on him though. We are not "judging" anybody here, we have no ability to affect him whatsoever, we can't inflict legal consequences on him, we are not judging "the case", the legal system didn't come to any conclusion, and it doesn't matter one bit how many people on Redcafe believe that's "wrong", it's 100% legally and criminally irrelevant. My personal opinion is that the behaviours we witnessed are more than enough for me to despise him, regardless of whether he actually is an abuser or a rapist, neither of which I've ever claimed. If we eventually get an "explanation" for that, or even some sort of believable display of contrition from him, I'll be more than happy to reassess. All this has no effect whatsoever on Greenwood, his life or his "chances".
Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic
- Thread starter keithsingleton
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If there is no legal basis for how decisions are made, whats the alternative. Trial by public opinion? Ever played a football match with no ref, thats the equivalent to leaving it to the public to decide?
Easier for him to go and play his football maybe where peoples moral compass is different.
It's not representative of anything other than the opinions of those that saw the thread in the general and we're able to vote, be careful reading too much into it...
I think you will find that poll results will sway based on the sentiment of the moment.
either way both polls were in favour of him not playing again, one was close one was not but outcome the same. My point was that it’s not just media backlash who is against him coming back but also a large proportion of the fan base too
It is in a way. The original poll was done after the season concluded and most Greenwood talk had been largely in hibernation for the preceding 17 months - the results of which were fairly agnostic. The second one was done later in the summer after various key influencers in England began protesting the possibility that he returns. Sentiment among a subsection of English fans would've clearly been affected by such a campaign, which is reflected in the disparity in both polls. There are also random sampling on social media among the entire global fan base where the sentiment is lopsidedly for him to return. Not that they are in any way scientific or anything. The point is you will always get different results depending who you ask, which will also vary over time as people see him playing in Madrid with his family supporting him.
Nonsense. Just not everyone is going to act like a player failing to beat his man and then running down a blind alley and losing the ball is worthy of praise just because he played for United before.
I think it’s naive to assume this would be the same if done next summer..
I’ve said it a few times if the loan goes well both on and off field I genuinely think United will have a decision to make next season and could see him being brought back in.
All options are still on the table.
Ohhh that's a zinger
This is what Andy Mitten more or less said when there tas that Talk of The Devils podcast focused on this sole topic.
He was the only bearable voice on there as I felt he was more circumspect in his discussion. He daily that the Athletic's only represented a very amount of supporters in favour of him ot returning. He also said that he spoke to every female member of his family to ask their opinion and again it was split. Some said he should not return, but others said he only young, give him a second chance.
He also said that sentiment would be very different, where you go as the support base is global.
The intention to bring him back was seen as United trying to be cunning. But that could easily be seen as them trying to be thorough, it was Crafton who picked apart pieces that set this tone of United being devious. He emphasised the word "hostile" attached certain groups who United thought would be in disagreement. The leaks really allowed the feeling to be manipulated without United ever really explaining their reasoning.
City under their ownership would not have allowed the situation to get this far as we have seen "115 charges" case.
Sorry but no. United have handled this awfully and I absolutely believe we've been devious in trying to manufacture a situation in which he can come back to us.
As for the bolded. Yes, but so what? Just because laws related to women are regressive and patriarchal in certain countries, does that make opinions that mirror that valid?
There is a guy who plays for United now that gets praised from some quarters for doing exactly that.
I thought it was a solid run down the wing. Nothing more. Going out of ones way to criticize it is rather extreme imo.
My take on it as well. English United podcasters and youtube channels appeared incentivized to only be anti-Greenwood for fear of losing channel subs by largely English audiences, which only reinforced the negative sentiment to most casual observers. Non English United social media have appeared to vacillate from agnostic at worst to calling for him return immediately.
I agree, which is why they should have been more decisive in their approach to announcing a decsion. They were always going to run through potential reaction of certain stakeholders. They did not have any objection from sponsors and very little from the women's team. But if you have someone giving out "leaks" to a publication they then tweet and writes one of the supposed processes of United 's decision each day for about 4-5 consecutive days then you are going to build momentum of public opinion.
It is the oldest trick in the book for print journalism (or online print journalism in this case). That is why they call it revelations. They (Crafton etc) had the whole story and then edited it in terms of what revelations they were going to go with each day. The result is crank up of pressure. In sporting terms the perfect analogy is a batting collapse in cricket.
It is tried and tested (you only have to look at the Royal Family to see that) and it did work. But it is manipulative.
So to be clear you feel there should be a way back for him at the club. Also, can you answer the question I asked, please? Just because laws related to women are regressive and patriarchal in certain countries, does that make opinions that mirror that valid?
And most importantly, those who most wanted to vote.
You’ll almost certainly have a much greater proportion of those who don’t want him back at any costs voting no.
And it’s not a stretch to assume most of those who have seen the poll and haven’t voted, or those who haven’t sought out the topic, are more likely to sit in the dont know/ yes/ don't care camp.
I don’t think it really matters what he thinks. The truth is there is a way back for him and the door has been very much left ajar by the club..
Who?
If Garnacho, a teenager with significantly less games than Greenwood, did that then he'd be criticised. And rightly so.
He’s talking about Rashford.
Forgetting anything other than football - assuming he gets back into regular playing time at a decent level such as Getafe for the next couple of years, where do people think he'll end up ability wise?
I like many thought he was the best thing to come out of the Academy since Pogba at least. But all that time off at his age, it can't be good.
I think he could have been second only to Haaland on potential alone.
I like many thought he was the best thing to come out of the Academy since Pogba at least. But all that time off at his age, it can't be good.
I think he could have been second only to Haaland on potential alone.
If in the right system, he will be a transformational, world class player imo.
This level of world class finishing doesn't happen often, particularly among teenagers capable of doing it effortlessly on one of the biggest club stages in world football.
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Then he's even more wrong. Rashford gets criticised more than anyone!
Good for him. Hope he gets back some normality, as does his family
Man, watching that is so frustrating. I don't think I've seen a youngster with such good shooting technique on either foot.
I think he'll top out as a big player for the likes of Atletico, Inter or Napoli, without making the jump to the likes of Real, Barca of Bayern.
I also wouldn't be surprised to see him back here next season / the season after.
Yea I agree with this. I think talent wise he could easily play for any top team but we won't really know the full impact the year out will have on him long term. I also think the biggest of clubs probably wouldn't want to take the reputational risk unless he became one of the top players in the world.
A "very good" player with the amount of baggage he would bring is more a headache than positive for the elite clubs in the world.
Of course! How's that new or bad? If a Manchester United player in full seriousness would say that he would be happiest if all gay and Black people died in their sleep tonight, and would confirm that sentiment multiple times, would you reserve your opinion until the justice system expresses an opinion on that quote? Cause they never would, it's not illegal to think such things. But I sure hope you'd have an opinion on the individual, and that the club would take action.
Sure, that's an extreme example, but my point is that we all do have a moral compass, and that that's normal and (generally) a good thing. And therefore, if people on the evidence they're aware of feel that Greenwood has conducted himself in a morally reprehensible way, then that's an entirely valid opinion to have. You don't have to agree with it yourself, but whatever the justice system concluded is totally irrelevant to that opinion.
Due to his contract, if he comes back, I think it happens sooner rather than later.
I have made 2 posts, where I have described my experiences with a family member who suffers from mental health that have led to what can be perceived as domestic violence.I do not wish to write it all out again but with rehabilitation, thankfully things are much improved.
I felt the club could/should have taken a conciliatory approach with active acknowledgment that these occurrences should not happen. I feel Mason Greenwood could /should have been reintegrated into the team if the club could determine the circumstances around this incident(s) it could be (a) understood why they happened and (b) is there active acknowledgment that the people involved have done or behaved wrong, but there is an absolute endeavor to get help and make changes to never do this again (the latter with the club's help).
I understand that process is longwinded and is difficult but to get to the root of these issues is never easy. But step-by-step rehabilitation can be achieved.
To simply describe someone as a "scumbag" without the full facts and just palm off the problem to another club is not right either. Rachel Riley said, "I do not wish my club to just brush these issues under the carpet." But that is what has happened but in another guise.
To your second question or the bolded part. No of course it is not right, but different countries and different cultures have contrasting views on varying social issues. It is the same with gender equality, perspectives on homosexuality, abortion rights, views on alcohol and recreational drug use, views on certain religious faiths, etc.
Equality and tolerance are the things most people would say are essential to a progressive society. The latter of the 2, however, is more tangible and not always for the better and certainly not practiced when preached. You have to be prepared to tolerate other people's differences to live in either a multicultural or a progressive society.
The key to it all is education and understanding. If we can learn why Mason Greenwood allegedly behaved the way he did to his partner and the mother of his child, then it can be changed and progress can be made.
Maybe I just looked all differently and in this fast paced world we live in nowadays, the patience needed to make it better is just not there? I don't know. I don't have all the answers. I just wanted the boy to have a chance at putting it right.
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Which is a bleak prospect, right...?
Fair play, thanks for taking the time to write this. I don't think we agree on this particular case but I can definitely see where you're coming from.
To some it will be, others not so much.
Again I think there’s a difference been thoughts and feelings now and how things might look next summer.
It all very much depends how the loan goes. It will certainly take the majority of the sting away from the media and fan pressure. Even more so if it’s successful and he speaks about what happened.
I suspect United know this too.
It doesn't change what we have seen and heard though. Some may come around to it but I really hope the club don't take him back, regardless. Though we probably will, given the folks we have in charge.
Thank you as well. When I took the time to write my experiences previously, I did not get any response (not I was necessarily looking for any). You are the first who has. I have every respect for you. Of course, violence against anyone is wrong (unless you are in an unfortunate position where you have to defend yourself).
I accept I looked at this from a complicated and drawn-out angle that involves getting to the root of it all and trying to approach it from a wider perspective.
For Greenwood himself, if he harbors any hope of playing in the Premier League again for any club, he has to talk and provide some sort of explanation. That is the reality of it. As I said, he has to make the changes, especially now he is a father.
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What's clear after two cameos is that even after 2 years out he is still a very good footballer with a career in a top league ahead of him. He looks like one of the more dangerous players at Getafe already.
I think he's going to end up being a star of a mid table team after returning to us and not quite making it.
This makes sense to me. United have handled this badly on so many levels - and at even at the end their final decision seems to be just a postponement of an actual decision. Cause there is no real comment on what happened, not much clarity on where you United really stand on things, and no closure around Greenwood's status at United. (Which may be because of lawyer stuff, but that doesn't help the general public understand things.) The bit I bolded above would have made a lot more sense than what's happened now. (Well, either that or some variant of 'no problem, let's get back to football', or 'huge problem, get the feck out of our club'.)
Quality control
Cant believe the amount of people here that hasnt done something stupid (drunk?) as teenager and havent been forgiven by redcafe/social media
Yes. I agree with you. In fact, just reading what you have said has dawned upon me, that the whole investigation conducted by United did not realize a logical outcome. By contrast, rightly or wrongly Man City did away with Benjamin Mendy, and Mendy himself will take the club to court for loss of earnings. But their process was definite but logical. City just wanted rid of the player and just move on.
United have not really done either. They have to tried to stand by him but also United also tried to placate other stakeholders. As the Athletic said "tried to do the right thing." I think United would have been well served to conduct their investigation and conclude before May and then hold meetings with external charities such as Women's Aid and tell them within the legal boundaries, these are our genuine findings, what do you think? What advice can you give us?
That could happen in a relatively open manner. It does matter if that gets reported. It would have been a positive thing to do. We are left in a corridor of uncertainty. Who knows, the club changes hands, what happens then?
That was before he had almost 2 years of playing no football. People have to stop thinking that he’s the same player. It will take time to get back to that level if indeed he ever will