Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

[adexkola]

People that I don’t understand are the ones who are absolutely sure that Greenwood is an attempted rapist and so on. There is simply no material publicly available to state this with absolute certainty.

I mean, I'm not absolutely sure the sun will rise tomorrow, but I'd bet all my belongings on it. There's always a narrow window of "yeah maybe I'm wrong" but I can forgive someone for thinking that someone who said those things just doesn't stop at saying them, and is capable and willing of following such despicable words with an attempt at a despicable act.

Take it from this amoral Bayesian.

 

[gaffs]

The sheer (willful?) ignorance of many posting in this thread is breathtaking (and very depressing).

Possibly the five most ludicrous assertions are that 1) There was no conviction so how can there be victim blaming?, 2) She didn't seem scared enough, 3) she has forgiven him so why can't we, 4) you can't have an ethically or morally based opinion because he wasn't convicted in a court of law (bonus buzzword bingo points for mentioning "trial by social media" or a "kangaroo court"), and 5) ignoring all the undisputable evidence that DV victims often go back to their abusers.

Here in Australia about 1 woman a week is murdered by their domestic partner. Many will have "voluntarily" gone back to their abuser (now killer). The figure is nearly double that in the UK, an average of 88 per year (10 year average).

Very well said.

There are so many people who are willfully ignorant of this. Quite disgusting views from others. The lack of empathy, understanding and open mindedness is frightening.

 

[Fridge chutney]

On a separate note, people really shouldn't be getting likes in this thread for siding with the opinions of those who can do so. That's not what the system is for.

Some of the recent likes in this thread are a fecking disgrace, frankly.

 

[Fridge chutney]

The sheer (willful?) ignorance of many posting in this thread is breathtaking (and very depressing).

Possibly the five most ludicrous assertions are that 1) There was no conviction so how can there be victim blaming?, 2) She didn't seem scared enough, 3) she has forgiven him so why can't we, 4) you can't have an ethically or morally based opinion because he wasn't convicted in a court of law (bonus buzzword bingo points for mentioning "trial by social media" or a "kangaroo court"), and 5) ignoring all the undisputable evidence that DV victims often go back to their abusers.

Here in Australia about 1 woman a week is murdered by their domestic partner. Many will have "voluntarily" gone back to their abuser (now killer). The figure is nearly double that in the UK, an average of 88 per year (10 year average).

Well said. What an unbelievably ignorant shitshow on display these past few pages.

 

[Belisarius]

The sheer (willful?) ignorance of many posting in this thread is breathtaking (and very depressing).

Possibly the five most ludicrous assertions are that 1) There was no conviction so how can there be victim blaming?, 2) She didn't seem scared enough, 3) she has forgiven him so why can't we, 4) you can't have an ethically or morally based opinion because he wasn't convicted in a court of law (bonus buzzword bingo points for mentioning "trial by social media" or a "kangaroo court"), and 5) ignoring all the undisputable evidence that DV victims often go back to their abusers.

Here in Australia about 1 woman a week is murdered by their domestic partner. Many will have "voluntarily" gone back to their abuser (now killer). The figure is nearly double that in the UK, an average of 88 per year (10 year average).

You state in the same post that it's wrong to use the term "trial by social media" and then proceed to quote statistics on general levels of domestic violence as though they automatically apply to the specific situation with Greenwood. The day he kills someone it might become relevant to his particular situation how many domestic partners are murdered in Australia. In the meantime, it is outrageous to post here. There are many bad things he can plausibly be accused of, murder isn't one of them.

 

[JrRed]

As an avid reader of this forum for in excess of 20 years (felt a little crazy writing that out), I have to say this debate is one of the most maddening I have ever witnessed on these boards. There will never be any end to this.

The posters who haven't been shy to call him an abhorrent little shit probably just waiting on everyone on the other side to say, "maybe he IS an abhorrent little shit but I don't mind watching him kick a football for my team".

What's so hard in that? Who cares if Dave from Timbuktu thinks I am also an abhorrent little shit for wanting this? But on we go...back to my reading.

 

[Wumminator]

Well said. What an unbelievably ignorant shitshow on display these past few pages.

Genuinely don’t understand why we aren’t banning posters who openly and brazenly call for Greenwood to come back. Some have got Getafe shirts ffs.

 

[JeffFromHK]

Just purely playing the devil's advocate:

What would be your reaction in case we sign [Irrelevant point]? Who was engaged in drunk driving and actually killed a young girl and destroyed a family - but his career went on as usual and continued to play in big clubs like Chelsea and Barcelona? While I agree that Greenwood most likely did domestically abuse his girlfriend and it is morally deplorable, why is it a more serious offense, and deserve a much more serious punishment, than actually killing someone?

Would love to get enlightened on the issue

 

[bdecuc]

Genuinely don’t understand why we aren’t banning posters who openly and brazenly call for Greenwood to come back. Some have got Getafe shirts ffs.

Wow.

 

[RacingClub]

Some of the recent likes in this thread are a fecking disgrace, frankly.

Yup I'd have to agree with that, absolutely shocking.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

WOW not been in this tread for a while, now I wish I had not.
Still calls for him to come back, FFS even by Getafe shirts WTF !
This has to be one of the worst thread on here EVER.
My stand on MG has never changed and never will , if he comes back to the club , I will refuse to watch us.
I wont change to another club, I could never do that, I could not an will not support the club if he comes back.
Agree with me or not , thats fine, I have seen domestic abuse first hand, the affect it has on the families involved.
I risk getting banned if I post what I really want to post.

 

[Mainoldo]

Can’t believe this thread is still going

We are still posting that domestic abuse stat too like it automatically is associated to Greenwood… Honestly guys grow up and live your lives.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Thank feck he isn't australian or she would've become another number.

 

[Acquire Me]

Genuinely don’t understand why we aren’t banning posters who openly and brazenly call for Greenwood to come back. Some have got Getafe shirts ffs.

Slow down, Adolf

 

[Rood]

Genuinely don’t understand why we aren’t banning posters who openly and brazenly call for Greenwood to come back. Some have got Getafe shirts ffs.

Can always rely on you for the most extremist take on things - consistent if nothing else !

TBF if anyone has bought a Getafe shirt just due to this loan, a ban is probably fair

Slow down, Adolf

Stalin is more apt

 

[Gwanoman10]

I've been reading the cafe threads for about 10 years now.. interesting to hear the perspectives of others..

This thread has me absolutely stumped..

I can't believe the mental gymnastics people are doing to justify him getting back in the team... It's nothing short of gaslighting yourselves just because greenwood is a good player and not a bus driver from Leigh...

 

[sepulturite]

The sheer (willful?) ignorance of many posting in this thread is breathtaking (and very depressing).

Possibly the five most ludicrous assertions are that 1) There was no conviction so how can there be victim blaming?, 2) She didn't seem scared enough, 3) she has forgiven him so why can't we, 4) you can't have an ethically or morally based opinion because he wasn't convicted in a court of law (bonus buzzword bingo points for mentioning "trial by social media" or a "kangaroo court"), and 5) ignoring all the undisputable evidence that DV victims often go back to their abusers.

Here in Australia about 1 woman a week is murdered by their domestic partner. Many will have "voluntarily" gone back to their abuser (now killer). The figure is nearly double that in the UK, an average of 88 per year (10 year average).

And there's posters on here Wibble who are scouts and members of staff who seem to hold these opinions and are giving out likes, and just doesn't seem right to me either.

 

[fergosaurus]

And there's posters on here Wibble who are scouts and members of staff who seem to hold these opinions and are giving out likes, and just doesn't seem right to me either.

If you're a newbie all you need to do is post pro-Greenwood/pro-Qatar stuff and one particular scout will see you promoted in no time.

 

[sepulturite]

If you're a newbie all you need to do is post pro-Greenwood/pro-Qatar stuff and one particular scout will see you promoted in no time.

Yep I noticed that alright. It's not on.

 

[afrocentricity]

I wouldn't begrudge the man his like, his posts were measured, polite.... pertinent...

Them having points in that wound up a lot of posters in this thread, that isn't a surprise, don't think it was his intention.

I think he deserved it for keeping cool under pressure while posters twisted his words trying to turn people against him. I don't even know the guy but that wasn't good, not from posters that you'd expect more from....

 

[Rood]

Let me be absolutely clear here that just because I 'Liked' a post, it doesn't mean I agree with everything in it. However I do like hearing different perspectives rather than the same old shite as that's what keeps a forum fresh and interesting.

I also refer everyone to the guidelines on what posts should get 'Likes':
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/redcafes-newbie-system.476751/


I highlight the following:

"But in short: write posts that respect other posters, have proper grammar and formatting, add to the discussion, and have some thinking behind them (which does not mean that we are looking for essays; there can be thoughtful, new content in a single sentence), and you will see the likes come in quickly."

"You don't have to subscribe to the popular view regarding anything. However, put your argument against it in an intelligent manner rather than resorting to infantile abuse which seems so popular nowadays. Make a good argument and you will earn likes."


I personally like to see good debates and discussions on here - I'm interested in hearing all sides of an argument.
Clearly some people don't like their thoughts and opinion to be challenged, I guess they prefer to live in an echo chamber.
The most ironic part is complaints about 'Likes' for well written and respectful posts, but no complaints about the infantile responses.

 

[SirAF]

Genuinely don’t understand why we aren’t banning posters who openly and brazenly call for Greenwood to come back. Some have got Getafe shirts ffs.

 

[MDFC Manager]

I think we should have a 'moral compass' test right at the signup process for new posters

 

[Lash]

I wouldn't begrudge the man his like, his posts were measured, polite.... pertinent...

Them having points in that wound up a lot of posters in this thread, that isn't a surprise, don't think it was his intention.

I think he deserved it for keeping cool under pressure while posters twisted his words trying to turn people against him. I don't even know the guy but that wasn't good, not from posters that you'd expect more from....

I don't particularly care about him getting a like, but I do object to this.

He didn't "keep cool" he filibusted and pretended people twisted his words. Most people were just quoting things he said and the "missing context" didn't absolve him from anything. I copied and pasted something from his long ass post and then told me that wasn't his point, he said his points a few posts back. He then tried to provide context, which made no difference to what I was saying and if anything put his foot in his mouth further.

 

[afrocentricity]

I don't particularly care about him getting a like, but I do object to this.

He didn't "keep cool" he filibusted and pretended people twisted his words. Most people were just quoting things he said and the "missing context" didn't absolve him from anything. I copied and pasted something from his long ass post and then told me that wasn't his point, he said his points a few posts back. He then tried to provide context, which made no difference to what I was saying and if anything put his foot in his mouth further.

If anyone's interested the posts are there on last few pages, people can make their own minds up. We don't need to rehash it again.

 

[Wibble]

You state in the same post that it's wrong to use the term "trial by social media" and then proceed to quote statistics on general levels of domestic violence as though they automatically apply to the specific situation with Greenwood. The day he kills someone it might become relevant to his particular situation how many domestic partners are murdered in Australia. In the meantime, it is outrageous to post here. There are many bad things he can plausibly be accused of, murder isn't one of them.

What has social media got to do with peer reviewed statistics? And if you ignore them you are saying more than 90% of DV cases just don't exist.

And nobody accused him of murder. Obviously. So obvious it is stunning that it needs to be said. The discussion was about dv victims going back to their abusers which many on here are trying g to deny is a thing.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

The sheer (willful?) ignorance of many posting in this thread is breathtaking (and very depressing).

Possibly the five most ludicrous assertions are that 1) There was no conviction so how can there be victim blaming?, 2) She didn't seem scared enough, 3) she has forgiven him so why can't we, 4) you can't have an ethically or morally based opinion because he wasn't convicted in a court of law (bonus buzzword bingo points for mentioning "trial by social media" or a "kangaroo court"), and 5) ignoring all the undisputable evidence that DV victims often go back to their abusers.

Here in Australia about 1 woman a week is murdered by their domestic partner. Many will have "voluntarily" gone back to their abuser (now killer). The figure is nearly double that in the UK, an average of 88 per year (10 year average).

Yeah, it's bleak and just reenforces my misandry/misanthrope tendencies.

 

[P-Ro]

AI can be quite a handy tool.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Freethinking and different opinions are not welcome here apparently!

I just wanted to pick up on this as it is a cliché that often gets rolled out in online debates.

Not all opinions are equal, occasionally a lot of people will find an opinion totally reprehensible and inform the person who offered it.

By very definition, different opinions are welcome here as posts are not being deleted for offering them. Scrutiny of those opinions is also welcome. If that becomes abusive or breaks the rules that we all have to follow on the forum then the mods will deal with it, outside of that it is just silly to cry about people being called out for shit opinions.

 

[NZT-One]

If you're a newbie all you need to do is post pro-Greenwood/pro-Qatar stuff and one particular scout will see you promoted in no time.

Maybe you calm down a little. You act as if there is only a minority fighting for good when thats not the case. Also the thing you pointed out above - is not worse than giving likes out for top red opinion pieces that are the same 2 thoughts put in a million different words. It has been pointed out - the like system is not some sort of "peoples quality" measure and to decide what "the forum" thinks is right or wrong. It is a system to make sure new users follow certain rules of debate and discussion.

By very definition, different opinions are welcome here as posts are not being deleted for offering them. Scrutiny of those opinions is also welcome. If that becomes abusive or breaks the rules that we all have to follow on the forum then the mods will deal with it, outside of that it is just silly to cry about people being called out for shit opinions.

You are right, but we have to realise that this "calling out" part often comes with subtile and sometimes not so subtile personal things. Which obviously will only heat up the discussion so things become even more personal.

I think it is important to call out BS but lets face it, nobody will be convinced of the opposite of his own standpoint by being called dumb or naive or misogynist.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

You state in the same post that it's wrong to use the term "trial by social media" and then proceed to quote statistics on general levels of domestic violence as though they automatically apply to the specific situation with Greenwood. The day he kills someone it might become relevant to his particular situation how many domestic partners are murdered in Australia. In the meantime, it is outrageous to post here. There are many bad things he can plausibly be accused of, murder isn't one of them.

Imagine misreading that post so badly, you type out this tripe.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

I just wanted to pick up on this as it is a cliché that often gets rolled out in online debates.

Not all opinions are equal, occasionally a lot of people will find an opinion totally reprehensible and inform the person who offered it.

By very definition, different opinions are welcome here as posts are not being deleted for offering them. Scrutiny of those opinions is also welcome. If that becomes abusive or breaks the rules that we all have to follow on the forum then the mods will deal with it, outside of that it is just silly to cry about people being called out for shit opinions.

What these people always mean is "I don't like scrutiny or anyone disagreeing with me...."

 

[Rood]

I just wanted to pick up on this as it is a cliché that often gets rolled out in online debates.

Not all opinions are equal, occasionally a lot of people will find an opinion totally reprehensible and inform the person who offered it.

By very definition, different opinions are welcome here as posts are not being deleted for offering them. Scrutiny of those opinions is also welcome. If that becomes abusive or breaks the rules that we all have to follow on the forum then the mods will deal with it, outside of that it is just silly to cry about people being called out for shit opinions.

Absolutely fine to tell someone their opinion is nonsense as long as you explain why without insults and personal attacks - that was my issue here as it adds absolutely nothing of value to the forum.

And BTW BigDerek was banned so MOTWYW.
TBF he was a bit long winded and made some controversial claims that deserved push back but I found the different perspective refreshing in a thread that mostly follows the same circular arguments.

I note you were one of the few who responded without hysteria so kudos to you, would have been interesting to hear your further thoughts on the response that you were given.

 

[Raoul]

We seem to be veering off topic in recent pages. Let's get back to the central topic of Greenwood chat.

 

[Rood]

We seem to be veering off topic in recent pages. Let's get back to the central topic of Greenwood chat.

Did you see Getafe released a statement about abuse from opposition fans a few days ago? I missed it and not sure if it was posted here - bit difficult to follow as it's a poor translation but it's here anyway

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...on-greenwood-getafe-statement-united-27805783

TBH I think abuse from other fans is just normal in this kind of situation, it's not even that bad from what I can tell - you hear similar at Old Trafford every week.

I think Getafe are just trying to make the most of the unprecedented exposure they are getting

 

[Raoul]

Did you see Getafe released a statement about abuse from opposition fans a few days ago? I missed it and not sure if it was posted here - bit difficult to follow as it's a poor translation but it's here anyway

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...on-greenwood-getafe-statement-united-27805783

TBH I think abuse from other fans is just normal in this kind of situation, it's not even that bad from what I can tell - you hear similar at Old Trafford every week.

I think Getafe are just trying to make the most of the unprecedented exposure they are getting

The chants are a harbinger of what United would have to deal with if he ever returned.

Also, I find this bit at the end of Getafe's statement interesting - equating the chants in a category that includes "violence", which given Greenwood's original assault charge (among other things) will probably sit oddly with a number of fans.

"Getafe CF against violence, racism, xenophobia and intolerance in sport."

 

[NotThatSoph]

I wouldn't begrudge the man his like, his posts were measured, polite.... pertinent...

Them having points in that wound up a lot of posters in this thread, that isn't a surprise, don't think it was his intention.

I think he deserved it for keeping cool under pressure while posters twisted his words trying to turn people against him. I don't even know the guy but that wasn't good, not from posters that you'd expect more from....

Politely saying that someone's sexual history makes Greenwood less likely to be guilty, have we reached the peak of your empty tone policing? I can't see you topping this for a while.

 

[afrocentricity]

Politely saying that someone's sexual history makes Greenwood less likely to be guilty, have we reached the peak of your empty tone policing? I can't see you topping this for a while.

Do you know me or anything about me? Wind your neck in

 

[NotThatSoph]

Do you know me or anything about me? Wind your neck in

I asked you a question, I didn't use any angry words. By your standard that should be both polite and measured, yet now you suddenly care enough about substance to give an aggressive response. I guess what I wrote is worse than the type of victim blaming that lawyers aren't allowed to engage in because of rape shield laws.

Yes, I can read, so I know some things about what you're like. Of course I don't know you as a person, but you don't know the other people here like that either, and that doesn't stop you from constantly talking about what they are like. When someone like Derek enters the thread, you couldn't be happier. Because of the obscene things he was saying, people will react. You then get to sit "in the middle", talking vaguely about some "good points" without having to commit to anything concrete, you get to tone police and criticize anything taking a position. This is Christmas for you.

When asked about specifics, you disengage. Either directly, by saying that you don't care, or indirectly by deflecting or not answering. You're going to do the same thing now.

 

[afrocentricity]

I asked you a question, I didn't use any angry words. By your standard that should be both polite and measured, yet now you suddenly care enough about substance to give an aggressive response. I guess what I wrote is worse than the type of victim blaming that lawyers aren't allowed to engage in because of rape shield laws.

Yes, I can read, so I know some things about what you're like. Of course I don't know you as a person, but you don't know the other people here like that either, and that doesn't stop you from constantly talking about what they are like. When someone like Derek enters the thread, you couldn't be happier. Because of the obscene things he was saying, people will react. You then get to sit "in the middle", talking vaguely about some "good points" without having to commit to anything concrete, you get to tone police and criticize anything taking a position. This is Christmas for you.

When asked about specifics, you disengage. Either directly, by saying that you don't care, or indirectly by deflecting or not answering. You're going to do the same thing now.

My posts are here for everyone to see, I was impressed with how he handled himself as I would have simply told posters to feck off. Play your games with someone else....