Insulting another member
It makes me laugh how some of you lot living on top of moral mountain are actually the most closed minded people on here.
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Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic
- Thread starter keithsingleton
- Start date
Like how you're ignoring the fact that they are together, with a child and seem pretty happy?
What opinions are good reference points for posters here to be enlightened from? Could you quote some?
Who gets to define a ‘reasonable opinion’. You’re prejudicing that with your own egocentric views. What makes you the moral bastion of the earth?
Have you taken the time to actually think about why? Or looked into it yourself?
A predictably pathetic response so far.
The next 6 months of this will be class.
The next 6 months of this will be class.
The person I was just chatting to looking down on a whole demographic that read certain newspapers for a start
Ratcliffes answer was suitably vague and designed to cover all eventualities which at this early stage of his tenure is completely understandable. I doubt there was any real desire to discuss him at all but given the incendiary nature of the subject it was best to at least put out something so as to stop the constant stream of questions about it
As far as the actual situation goes nothings changed since the day the charges were dropped really. Either Mason and/or the young lady commit to a PR push to help appease the fans/wider public or he leaves. I get the feeling they aren't prepared to do this (as is their right) so he'll be sold in the summer.
It's the boards job now to get the best deal they can for the sake of the clubs future plans
As far as the actual situation goes nothings changed since the day the charges were dropped really. Either Mason and/or the young lady commit to a PR push to help appease the fans/wider public or he leaves. I get the feeling they aren't prepared to do this (as is their right) so he'll be sold in the summer.
It's the boards job now to get the best deal they can for the sake of the clubs future plans
Closed-minded? For not reading the comments section of the online editions of tabloid newspapers? That's just having standards.
Not the demographic, you couldn't be more wrong. Just have no time for that arena of discussion because it's editorially led, and the owners and editors of those newspapers are scum who frequently convince that demographic to vote against their own interests.
Sounds like those comments sections is where that poster belongs actually
So great to see this car crash of a thread reignited again.
Personally loving all the fresh takes.
Personally loving all the fresh takes.
It's like that Simpsons gif; Skinner "Could it be I am so out of touch...No, it's the children who are wrong!"United's initial investigation concluded the club had a 'duty of care' to Greenwood, which doesn't feel a million miles from what's been said by SJR here, and still concluded he'd play his football elsewhere. Words have clearly been selected very carefully - not that I'm saying this is 100% an exercise in driving up his value or anything. Who knows.
The fact it's been interpreted in every possible way on here probably points to the idea we can't really draw conclusions about his motivation. I really hope it doesn't mean the door has been reopened for a return.
Fun skim through this morning. "Cancel culture brigade". Could this be a situation of Greenwood's making entirely? No, it's the fans, who are completely entitled to their standpoint, who are wrong.
Knock it off with the constant calls for posters to get banned.
Won't somebody think of the Daily Mail comment section users?
Sir Jim’s main task is to rebuild the club and heal the huge rifts within the fanbase therefore the club doesn’t need any distractions, I hope Greenwood plays well at Getafe but only because he’s an asset that has to be sold in the summer for the highest price, there will be many more challenges for Sir Jim going forward, one player, however good he may or may not be is simply not worth dividing the fan base any further, we’ve had over a decade of hurt and pain and it’s time for the fanbase to be united, with the current intensity of Elite Football Greenwood may even decline dramatically in 5 or 6 years like Rashford has, the question should be do we continue to have a divides within our fanbase over one player who still hasn’t got 20 goals and 10 assists in a season as good as he might develop to be or do we simply sell him for as much as we can get and while we are at it sell Antony, Sancho and Pellistri for a combined sum of £120m for all 4 players in the summer and then go buy any 2 from the following ;
Pedro Neto, Michael Olise, Ansi Fati,
K Mitoma, Nico Williams, Marius Sole, Johan Bakayoko, Federico Chiesa, Leroy Sane, Serge Gnabry, Rodrygo
My point had the team scored more than the pathetic 35 League goals in 23 games then the clamour for MG return would be less intense within a certain faction of the fanbase.
A Team like United should have 5 or 6 players of elite standards yes 2 or 3 will still be better than the rest but not by a significant margin.
As bad as Rashford has been this season, he’ll still finish with 15 Goals and assists in the PL and that’s the reason he’ll stay, our problem is that neither him nor Garnaucho and certainly not Antony should be starting a PL game after they stunk the place out the week before so signing any 2 from that list, especially 2 young hungry options without baggage makes United much better and starts to heal the fanbase without reintegrating a political hot potato like MG
The club selling him for £40-50m helps our FFP situation immeasurably. If the summer rolls on and United sell the 4 mentioned and then buy Michael Olise(50m), Nico Williams(35m) and add another back up striker like Santiago Gimenez or Benjamin sesco(40m) and it’s only cost the club £5m but probably less than that on the books because the wages for these three players will be no more than 400k per week and the club would have let Martial go to add to the 4 players mentioned so wages saved will be 350k per week less.
This hopefully will be how the club operates this summer and the new players will need time and support just like we gave to Rasmus however If our squad options in attack are ; R Hojlund, B Sesco, M Olise, N Williams, M Rashford, A Garnaucho and Amad.
Three will always play, one might not work, one will always be injured and more importantly 2 or 3 will be on a 9 Man bench looking to come on and change a game.
Currently the squad is so bare, Manchester United rely on Scott McTominay to make an attacking change, that in all honestly is the clubs biggest problem alongside injuries with players getting older and not having suitable replacements.
Pedro Neto, Michael Olise, Ansi Fati,
K Mitoma, Nico Williams, Marius Sole, Johan Bakayoko, Federico Chiesa, Leroy Sane, Serge Gnabry, Rodrygo
My point had the team scored more than the pathetic 35 League goals in 23 games then the clamour for MG return would be less intense within a certain faction of the fanbase.
A Team like United should have 5 or 6 players of elite standards yes 2 or 3 will still be better than the rest but not by a significant margin.
As bad as Rashford has been this season, he’ll still finish with 15 Goals and assists in the PL and that’s the reason he’ll stay, our problem is that neither him nor Garnaucho and certainly not Antony should be starting a PL game after they stunk the place out the week before so signing any 2 from that list, especially 2 young hungry options without baggage makes United much better and starts to heal the fanbase without reintegrating a political hot potato like MG
The club selling him for £40-50m helps our FFP situation immeasurably. If the summer rolls on and United sell the 4 mentioned and then buy Michael Olise(50m), Nico Williams(35m) and add another back up striker like Santiago Gimenez or Benjamin sesco(40m) and it’s only cost the club £5m but probably less than that on the books because the wages for these three players will be no more than 400k per week and the club would have let Martial go to add to the 4 players mentioned so wages saved will be 350k per week less.
This hopefully will be how the club operates this summer and the new players will need time and support just like we gave to Rasmus however If our squad options in attack are ; R Hojlund, B Sesco, M Olise, N Williams, M Rashford, A Garnaucho and Amad.
Three will always play, one might not work, one will always be injured and more importantly 2 or 3 will be on a 9 Man bench looking to come on and change a game.
Currently the squad is so bare, Manchester United rely on Scott McTominay to make an attacking change, that in all honestly is the clubs biggest problem alongside injuries with players getting older and not having suitable replacements.
It's not about how he's changed. It's all about that very incident. We live in a modern, digital age where you can't erase the evidence that's out there. Even England's 'golden boy' is taunting him on the pitch about it.
SJR: "We need to look at facts, judge fairly and take into consideration what the values of the club are."
The facts are damning and the values of United who rely so heavily on reputation, will not allow it to be jeopardized any further.
Stay OnTopic Folks.
To be fair, the club’s initial investigation concluded that it was satisfied Greenwood had not committed the acts he was charged with, and it seems that their view was that it was appropriate for him to return to playing for the club.United's initial investigation concluded the club had a 'duty of care' to Greenwood, which doesn't feel a million miles from what's been said by SJR here, and still concluded he'd play his football elsewhere. Words have clearly been selected very carefully - not that I'm saying this is 100% an exercise in driving up his value or anything. Who knows.
The fact it's been interpreted in every possible way on here probably points to the idea we can't really draw conclusions about his motivation. I really hope it doesn't mean the door has been reopened for a return.
Fun skim through this morning. "Cancel culture brigade"
The only thing which led them to conclude it was preferable for him to play elsewhere seems to have been the media coverage/risk of further adverse publicity. If they feel that the fact he has been playing in Spain for a season with no real media concerns reduces those concerns, it’s plausible that they might adopt a different approach this summer.
At the onset of his return I was in the favor of him giving a chance again but jeez if the fan base is going to devolve to children bickering about the same old arguments going in circles it's probably not worth it.
Banned for having a different opinion to you? Live in an echo chamber if you like
So far him marrying his gf does give an impression that he has been forgiven and everyone has moved on. However it also kinda gives me an uneasy feeling. If in court everyone said Mason isnt guilty, including his own victim and her families because they had moved on, then of course there is only one outcome regardless of other evidences. What if the victim said the evidence is not should be taken at face value but theres another context of why he did it. Dunno man, just let him go really. Will cause so much headache and he will be booed every match, wont be pretty
Read my other post about a different opinion on this subject, how any decent human being could have a different opinion on this subject is beyond me. Who listens to that audio and sees those pictures and says to themselves "naaah we're not getting the full picture here" unbelievable.
Me. 100%
It's pretty irrelevant that they're back together and doesn't change what he (in my opinion) did. The fact that people suffering domestic violence frequently return to their abusers has been mentioned here ad nauseam - have you somehow managed to miss that? Also, when you say 'seem pretty happy', on what are you basing that? On the fact that he's not yet been caught on audio assaulting her again?
If you read the DM comments section and argue in good faith that it's full of reasonable, well thought out opinion then I have grave doubts about your own capacity for reasonable discussion.
No, I wasn't. I was saying that the comments sections on most dailies' websites are absolute cesspools.
They would be right at home there.
Yep they would no doubt
Oh was that you, I thought it was me.
And?
Temporary Thread Bans
This thread needs cool heads. Temporary Thread Bans for anyone stirring or being accusatory.
By the sounds of what Ratcliffe said in all of his interviews yesterday, FFP is going to be a big factor in what happens to Greenwood.
It's complicated but they also need to see if it works out better or worse financially to sell him or keep him.
They could sell him for say 40 million at best but still have to sign someone else for probably more money and on higher wages.
Whereas if he came back it's effectively a free signing for right wing and backup striker. His wages aren't much so selling Antony and Sancho is a bigger gain financially.
Even if we got 25 million each for Antony and Sancho it might prove better as we know for sure they're not good enough on the pitch and also have unjustified high salaries at 200k and 350k per week.
I don't mind seeing the below first and 2nd choice lineups:
1st - Garnacho Hojlund Greenwood
2nd - Rashford new ST Antony/Amad
It's complicated but they also need to see if it works out better or worse financially to sell him or keep him.
They could sell him for say 40 million at best but still have to sign someone else for probably more money and on higher wages.
Whereas if he came back it's effectively a free signing for right wing and backup striker. His wages aren't much so selling Antony and Sancho is a bigger gain financially.
Even if we got 25 million each for Antony and Sancho it might prove better as we know for sure they're not good enough on the pitch and also have unjustified high salaries at 200k and 350k per week.
I don't mind seeing the below first and 2nd choice lineups:
1st - Garnacho Hojlund Greenwood
2nd - Rashford new ST Antony/Amad
This never happened.
The evidence was made public. There's no getting away from it. It's irrelevant whether he has been 'forgiven' by his partner. He will forever promote this vile behaviour.
It’s probably about both. The club has repeatedly said that Greenwood has made mistakes / done wrong but also that there is a decision to make. In addition to what you share SJR also says that “come to fair decision on the basis of values which is basically is he a good guy or not”. So in addition to pondering A) did Greenwood do a disgusting thing (which he most likely did) B) will the fans want him representing the club (probably not but possibly needs revisiting) they may consider C) whether he has reformed himself sufficiently for a career at United being a possibility.
At the end of the day, what Greenwood appears to have done was horrific. At the same time, given his age at the time, him learning much needed lessons in humanity would obviously be the best outcome from this on a personal level so nobody has to suffer from those actions at his hands again. If he has done that, and I’m nobody to judge then I personally don’t see an issue with him playing for us again. But that’s a huge IF - I dont know if you can really go from disgusting scum bag to decent person. I’m sure it’s happened given people learn but it’s a big call and surely must be the exception to the rule.
Because their quality as a footballer isn't, and shouldn't be, the deciding factor on whether it's right for them to continue to play for the club in the wake of allegations of attempted rape and domestic violence. One person doesn't deserve more lenience than the other because they're a good footballer.
I'm not totally clued up on the Antony situation, so forgive me if this isn't correct, but my understanding is that charges have not (or possibly not yet) been brought against him but if they are, he'll probably also be suspended pending the outcome - and that's why he's still available in the squad.
The evidence in the public domain is probably also a factor.
Can't see Rashford staying if he's relegated to a bench role.
I was against ferrying him off overseas because it meant he wouldn't have to go through any kind of process of accountability. Challenging his behaviours, emotional responses etc would have been something United and a team of psychological practitioners could have worked with him on. Only after he'd displayed development in his emotional intelligence should he have been allowed to play football again, whether at United or elsewhere. It's why I find the shouty arguments to flog him to whoever will take him a bit odd. Shouldn't the primary concern have been and still be for the victim? Minimising the risk that Greenwood assaults her/others again? I dunno.
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An intentional reference
I know. We live in an era where digital records will be there for ages. But I think there would have been a much worse outcome for him if the victims actually kept pressing rather than made peace with it, he probably wouldnt even be playing football right now.
Well, we can only speculate on whether their view was that it was appropriate for him to return to playing for the club, or that the only thing that led them to conclude that he should play elsewhere is media coverage. We don't know that one way or the other. It's possible. Their handling of it at that point was fairly woeful. What we do know is the decision was made for him to play elsewhere. I hope this time isn't any different.
Read @Woziak post above for how it could work
your smart take is different than mine. It’s fine.
For me, he has been cleared, back with his partner and back on the pitch. The club’s statement mentioned that evidence they reviewed showed the whole context. He did make a mistake, but what is the extent of that mistake we don’t know, but seems smaller than what the public recordings show.
he might end up playing for atletico madrid or barcelona, from rumors, why not us?